How do you reason with religious people?

[Assassin Xaero]

There is a "politics and religion" forum for this type of thing...

But anyway, I ignore them. I've gone to church and I've gone to an atheist group. What I've learned is that there are psycho douche bags in both who only one to destroy the beliefs of others in favor of their own because they lack the ability to have respect for anyone who sees things different.

 

[Shadie777]

Usually it goes like this:

Me: *logical argument*
Religious person: *logical retort*
Me: *logical retort*
Religious Person: *logical retort*
Me: *Logical Retort*
Religious Person: Yes well, I have faith I don't need proof!
Me: ... >_>

And then I realize it's a losing battle.

As a religious person that's basically the same with all my discussions except I end up thinking about the logical retort for a couple of hours until I find something that I can use for the discussion, unfortunately by that time my friend won't be bothered to discuss >_>.
If i can't find another logical retort then i accept it.
I actually believe it's a good thing to have a discussion about religion but only if it's done right. I have my doubts that their is actually a God but im fine with that. If i didn't have these doubts I wouldn't be taken seriously in my discussions.

 

[drisky]

Damn it, its been so long since we had a religious thread in the wrong place, now I have to listen to all these "I never associate with religious people" and "Its impossible to reason with them", *sigh*. Honestly though I can't think of a single time in which I had to reason with them, no one I ever met thought homosexuality was wrong, or evolution, and I haven't heard an argument against any thing like birth control in a long time.

In your case though your just trying to prove a clearly evil group evil, so simple go thorough a list of things that Westbro has protested. Do you hate; solders, americans, gays, musicians, comic book nerds etc. If he admits not hating even one of those things tell him he's going to hell for being a symphasizer. Westbro disregards many off the basic Christian believes such as forgiveness and loving they neighbor, he should realize that they only share a book. If not he is clearly stupid, not much you can do about that.

 

[imnot]

Whenever the god fearing hate mongers come through at work and talk about god, i simply use evolution and the teapot argument to subjugate them. Since provocative writing is the devil and all, using encyclopedic like literary devices works wonders.

May I ask what the teapot argument is?

 

[liamwazhere]

Well very simply, no WBC are not christians. I am not religous, but saying that the WBC are christians is like saying Nazi's are christians, or that the Taliban is muslim. They stray so far away from the religion that they should not be considered parts if it.

And for "How do I deal with religous people", although I do not like religion in most forums.
And although I dislike bigets, racists, who are downright morons which hide behind their religion and use it to justify there unreasonable "opinions". I accept that religous people are normal. So as normal people, most of them do consider my argument against them, as I accept their argument against mine. There is no problem with them having a religion then. But I will speak out against extremists, I will speak out against the people who use religion as a tool for hate. Thats how I deal with religous people.

 

[norwegian-guy]

I ask religious people tthe following questions before I try to reason with them: "Are you able to imagine a world without God?", If the person says no, then I conclude that we cannot have a reasonable conversation conserning anything with an idea about a God as context. If they say yes I ask them if they place their idea of God (By that I mean the way they consider Gods nature as this is something that it is not possible to obtain actual knowledge of as the very existence of a god is something we cannot obtain knowledge of anyways, I ask if their idea of God)is superiour to logic. If they say no, then they value logic and it is possible to have a reasonable conversation with them unnafected by their religious standing. If they say yes I ask them if God can create a married bachelor, or a triangle without angles, or a mass that does not take up the slightest bit of space. If they say yes I conclude that I cannot have a reasonable conversation with them. If they see the problem I conclude that I can have a reasonable conversation with them.

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

You're not "reasoning with religious people". You're reasoning with your jackass friend who happens to be christian.

Monkfish seems to have gotten the right idea, here.

 

[Squidden]

SNIP

Imagine a man in the street who yelled he could see an invisible magic pink unicorn, and it told him how to live his life. He implores you to also see the unicorn, some people in teh street go and join him staring at this magical pink unicorn that is invisible. I have about as much respect for religious people as i do this crazy old man. There is no observable difference between the two. I dont really see why i should have to respect religion but not teh crazy old unicorn man? They are both equally moronic. I kinda just put up with religious people. About half our population can see invisible pink unicorns. Good for them.

I think the magic invisible pink unicorn should be worshiped as god, seeing as how it manages to be both invisible and ping at the same time....

 

[liamwazhere]

You're not "reasoning with religious people". You're reasoning with your jackass friend who happens to be christian.

Monkfish seems to have gotten the right idea, here.

I agree your friend doesn't seem intelligent.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

Imagine a man in the street who yelled he could see an invisible magic pink unicorn, and it told him how to live his life. He implores you to also see the unicorn, some people in teh street go and join him staring at this magical pink unicorn that is invisible. I have about as much respect for religious people as i do this crazy old man. There is no observable difference between the two. I dont really see why i should have to respect religion but not teh crazy old unicorn man? They are both equally moronic. I kinda just put up with religious people. About half our population can see invisible pink unicorns. Good for them.

I think the magic invisible pink unicorn should be worshiped as god, seeing as how it manages to be both invisible and ping at the same time....

Its invisible to you, or so he says, but he can see it and it is pink.

 

[AshuraSpeaks]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Basically, your friend needs to relax, because we're all busy bees buzzing about what God approves and doesn't approve of(I personally, especially being Christian, want Westboro to catch fire, fall over, and sink into a swamp). God already covered this: Romans 11:34 ?For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?? aka God knows what God wants, and only Him. People trying to squeeze out nonsense from biblical passages 2000+ years later, who feel they are a life and death authority on those words, are idiots.

 

[Antwerp Caveman]

First of all, I'm an atheist. I'm an informed atheist. I was raised christian, but even as a child I didn't believe a thing of it. After a while, my family left the church.
I spent time thinking about it. And I like to think there's more to it. But I'm absolutely sure that whatever is worshipped now cannot be it.
I started reading Hitchens, Dawkins. Watched TV, George Carlin, Bill Maher's doing some good in weekly balanced debates.
You will never disuade a true believer. It all falls back to Mysterious ways etc. so don't bother.
My girlfriend is agnostic, she's just not sure, and that's fine.
And my conclusion and, well worldview I guess, is that people can just practice religion. That's fine. But at home or at a church/temple/synagogue/mosque or whatever. If you keep it there then everyone is happy.
About WBC, I believe that everyone has an epiphany in their life. A moment of absolute clarity. In which they realised everything they've done and see it in context. I hope that mr. Phelps will have his soon. And apologise to all those who he's harmed.

Also, how is that guy a Democrat? I thought the Republicans were the religious ones?

And to end with a nice quote.

Can omniscient God, who Knows the future, find The omnipotence to Change His future mind?
- Karen Ownens

 

[CarlMin]

I don't know if i would generalize all religious people like that. They can't all be like Westboro, can they?

 

[Flackster]

Personally I think people should learn to separate between people in the religion, and the religion itself. I mean really just because a single person, or one small group does something doesn't mean that everyone of the religion is bad, it just means that one person or that one group is bad.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Oh, yeah... your friend's stubbornness is definitely due to him being religious...
Great going, OP.

EDIT:
OT: Like you'd reason with anyone else, using logic.

 

[DanielDeFig]

That is a difficult question. Religion by definition is the institutionalization of belief in something that does not need proof, reason or logic. So from birth, these people are taught that it is a good thing to blindly believe in something you have no proof for, and to be very emotional about that belief.

The best advice i have for you, is to ask your friend to stop treating his own religion as something sacred, untouchable, absolute, in an argument, but rather treat it like he treats your rational arguments. Personal feelings are left at the door in a rational argument (Or are clearly identified and explained as emotional bias, at least), and all sides should be looked at equally critical, including your own.

 

[Haukur Isleifsson]

Pull Socrates on them. Give them a few "for the sake of argument" points which they can agree with and lead them into contradicting them selfs. You must base your argument on the assumption that what they believe is true because they will not be able to accept any other argument.

 

[spacewalker]

When arguing with a religous person, never start arguing weither god exists or not if thats not what the argument is about.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

Depends.

Are we talking hyper relgious zealot who ignores logic and reason, or relgious person who still has common sense?

If it's the former, just don't even bother.