How is Dragon's Crown a parody?

[Erttheking]

I really hate to pour fuel on the fire but I was thinking about Dragon's Crown today and something hit me. I think this is the source of all the controversy, the reason people get angry about this game and the reason that people defend it so vigilantly. The creator of the characters said that he intended for them a parody of the stereotypical characters such as in Golden Axe. Some people are ok with this and defend it, while other people don't like it. And the reason I think why just hit me.

How is Dragon's Crown a parody?

Seriously, look at all of the characters and think about it. If the developer had never come out and said that it was a parody, would it have ever crossed your mind? What about Far Cry 3? If anyone had told you that Far Cry 3 was a parody would you have believed them? Because it was. Far Cry 3 was supposed to be viewed as a parody.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/12/26/why-far-cry-3-is-misunderstood/

The article talks about why people never considered that it was a parody, because we were so used to the over the top stuff that we see in games playing themselves completely straight that we assume that the game itself is playing itself straight. And that's the same problem that Dragon's Crown has. The Sorceress was supposed to be a parody of big breasted impractically dressed female character, but he did that by creating another big breasted impractically dressed female character, and we're so used to that that we just thought it was more of the same.

And really, how IS it a parody? If Far Cry 3 was a parody it wasn't a very good one, and from what I've seen of Dragon's Crown its the same. I think Yahtzee said it the best when talking about Bulletstorm. "Playing it all straight and claiming that you're being ironic." And I have to say, that isn't a very good parody. A good parody is more in the lines of Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon where everything is so over the top and balls to the walls silly you know that you're not supposed to take it seriously.

The moral of the story is that you can't really have a parody by just doing exactly what you parody. If you want to have a parody of an over-sexualized female character, you have to do more than just make an over-sexualized female character.

You can't take Modern Warfare 3 and call it satire.

I'm not saying that Dragon's Crown is offensive, I'm not saying that it's a bad game, I'm not even trying to deny that the creator was trying to make a parody. What I'm trying to say that if it was trying to be a parody, I don't think it did a very good job.

EDIT: Actually I take that back. Thank you IllumInaTIma and AngelofBlueRoses for clearing things up for me.

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

 

[Stephen St.]

Well, if you say that FarCry 3 Blood Dragon is a parody by virtue of being completely over the top and "balls to the wall silly", then I would say the same applies to Dragons Crown. You can certainly make a parody by dialing things up to the ridiculous, which is what Dragon's Crown does.

Yahtzee was talking about irony, which is different. Irony is supposed to be subversive, while a parody is not inherently subversive. Really, the line between a "parody" and "hommage" doesn't seem all that clear to me. That is why people say that being a parody doesn't make it less problematic, because it only plays hommage to a trope instead of subverting it.

 

[Erttheking]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/Ivy_Valentine.png/170px-Ivy_Valentine.png

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

 

[AITH]

Subtlety isn't always an artform, sometimes it's just poorly executed. I see Dragon's Crown and just see an art staff that typically jerks it to hentai. That being said though, I could care less. It's their game, if you think it looks cool buy it, if you don't move on and get out of the faces of people that do.

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

 

[Erttheking]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

You are demanding that the line be moved. You're viewing something as not enough of a parody, so you're saying that it needs to be taken farther. And thank you for completely ignoring the second half.

If you want me to hit you on the head with my point, I will. You can make a parody of something that has become the norm, which I personally don't think it has despite of your terrible fighters and think it's more just a inflated problem from people whining, just by making sure the rest of the context succeeds in doing so. All of Dragon's Crown establishes itself as the extremeties of stereotypes, so logic would dictate to follow that your big-breasted sorceress should be as well, even if its own example is not quite as grandiose as some of the others like The Fighter.

Maybe you should have titled the thread "How is The Sorceress a parody?".

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

It's a playable <link=http://frankfrazetta.net/Gallery_1.html>Frank Frazetta painting exaggerated to the point of absurdity. That makes it a parody in my book, whether it's a particularly good one or not.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

Look, this is off the back of the box for the game:

George Kamitani's stunning homage to classic fantasy gaming delivers over-the-top character designs....

It is a parody, Kamitani was making a conscious effort to make satirical character designs. You may not like them, but there it is.

 

[Voulan]

Seriously, look at all of the characters and think about it. If the developer had never come out and said that it was a parody, would it have ever crossed your mind? What about Far Cry 3? If anyone had told you that Far Cry 3 was a parody would you have believed them? Because it was. Far Cry 3 was supposed to be viewed as a parody.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/12/26/why-far-cry-3-is-misunderstood/

I can't believe that I didn't figure that out. I thought the story was ridiculously Hollywood drama (and the ending was completely bizarre, especially if you chose the bad one), but I guess the article is right in saying that we're far too used to this kind of storytelling and characterization that we often completely miss the joke. With all the action-y explosions and hardcore scenes that saturate AAA games and their advertising, it's probably too difficult to expect such subtlety from the same medium.

The same goes for sexualization. We're far too used to exaggerated female characters that if it is in fact a parody, we're more likely to miss it completely. It's the difference between typical and critique of the typical.

 

[Erttheking]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

You are demanding that the line be moved. You're viewing something as not enough of a parody, so you're saying that it needs to be taken farther. And thank you for completely ignoring the second half.

If you want me to hit you on the head with my point, I will. You can make a parody of something that has become the norm, which I personally don't think it has despite of your terrible fighters and think it's more just a inflated problem from people whining, just by making sure the rest of the context succeeds in doing so. All of Dragon's Crown establishes itself as the extremeties of stereotypes, so logic would dictate to follow that your big-breasted sorceress should be as well, even if its own example is not quite as grandiose as some of the others like The Fighter.

Maybe you should have titled the thread "How is The Sorceress a parody?".

Ah, that's what you're getting at. Well, to be perfectly honest, I never really saw the fighter or the dwarf as parodies either. I mean, they're not the first massive fighters that positively dwarf (heh) female characters.

http://www.wallwides.com/wallpaper/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/08/11535/Starcraft-Sarah-Kerrigan-Jim-Raynor-Wallpapers.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/gearsofwar/images/b/bf/AnyaMarcusDomJM.jpg

Not to mention I've seen male characters built like them before.

http://www.sentrygun.com/ascension/Useless_Against_Me.jpg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/duke-nukem-3d-1.jpg

I know, I know, Duke Nukem probably isn't the best example, but my point stands. It never really occurred to me that the Fighter and the Dwarf were parodies. I honestly thought that they were all being played straight, partly to precedent.

 

[CloudAtlas]

A parody might have been the intention, but, as others pointed out, how can you distinguish a parody when it looks pretty much the same as a lot of stuff that is not?

I mean, really, gamers are just too used to such crass sexualization, to stories so bad that they make Steven Seagall movies look like Oscar contenders, how are we supposed to tell the difference?


Does Dragon's Crown provide any signals that it is a parody? Does it, for instance, poke fun of the impracticality of its outfits and the impossibility of its anatomies?

 

[Erttheking]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

Look, this is off the back of the box for the game:

George Kamitani's stunning homage to classic fantasy gaming delivers over-the-top character designs....

It is a parody, Kamitani was making a conscious effort to make satirical character designs. You may not like them, but there it is.

I guess that's the point I'm trying to get across. I don't think it's a very GOOD parody.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

A parody might have been the intention, but, as others pointed out, how can you distinguish a parody when it looks pretty much the same as a lot of stuff that is not?

Does Dragon's Crown provide any signals that it is a parody? Does it, for instance, poke fun of the impracticality of its outfits and the impossibility of its anatomies?

It kinda actually does. Sometimes. There's a feature where you find some ex-adventurers bones and bring them back for resurrection. And besides every set of bones is a little message that adventurer left before he died. Amazon's bones might say something like "I should've worn some armor". Not sure if that counts though.
Also, sometimes Sorceress' bones might say "tell HER that I loved her".

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

Look, this is off the back of the box for the game:

George Kamitani's stunning homage to classic fantasy gaming delivers over-the-top character designs....

It is a parody, Kamitani was making a conscious effort to make satirical character designs. You may not like them, but there it is.

I guess that's the point I'm trying to get across. I don't think it's a very GOOD parody.

Have you played it? I'm currently playing it. I really don't see how a statement like that can be made without significant experience with the product, either through playing it or through a LP.

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

You are demanding that the line be moved. You're viewing something as not enough of a parody, so you're saying that it needs to be taken farther. And thank you for completely ignoring the second half.

If you want me to hit you on the head with my point, I will. You can make a parody of something that has become the norm, which I personally don't think it has despite of your terrible fighters and think it's more just a inflated problem from people whining, just by making sure the rest of the context succeeds in doing so. All of Dragon's Crown establishes itself as the extremeties of stereotypes, so logic would dictate to follow that your big-breasted sorceress should be as well, even if its own example is not quite as grandiose as some of the others like The Fighter.

Maybe you should have titled the thread "How is The Sorceress a parody?".

Ah, that's what you're getting at. Well, to be perfectly honest, I never really saw the fighter or the dwarf as parodies either. I mean, they're not the first massive fighters that positively dwarf (heh) female characters.

http://www.wallwides.com/wallpaper/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/08/11535/Starcraft-Sarah-Kerrigan-Jim-Raynor-Wallpapers.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/gearsofwar/images/b/bf/AnyaMarcusDomJM.jpg

Not to mention I've seen male characters built like them before.

http://www.sentrygun.com/ascension/Useless_Against_Me.jpg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/duke-nukem-3d-1.jpg

I know, I know, Duke Nukem probably isn't the best example, but my point stands. It never really occurred to me that the Fighter and the Dwarf were parodies. I honestly thought that they were all being played straight, partly to precedent.

The Fighter is quite a bit more extreme than either of those first two, that "My Bride is a Mermaid" one is oddly reminiscent to me of the types of anime/manga that fall into the same category as JoJo's Bizarre Adventures (i.e. stupidly drawn and stupid everything else for the sake of stupidity), and Duke is... well... Duke. Hail to the King (of parody).

Taken as a whole, this game should be viewed as "DnD Stereotypes: The Game," and to me is a matter of gestalt that just simply cannot be broken down to as small of pieces as focusing on one character like The Sorceress.

 

[Erttheking]

A misunderstood parody is still a parody, just a badly executed one. And is it a badly executed one? I never even heard that the maker of Dragon's Crown called his game a parody and I could tell you that it is one. It's not just the Sorceress, but -all- of the characters. All of the characters are designed in such extreme, yet stereotypical, ways that of course it's a satire. I got that much from looking at the Fighter alone, neverminding the rest of the cast and the way that the Dwarf and Elf are named after their race and not their class.

It doesn't have to be so extremely over-the-top that breasts literally kill a person; people just need to use their brains and stop being so overly sensitive because I can bet you that all of the people that are crying out now against Dragon Crown's design would still be crying out even with your idea.

See that's kind of the problem. Yes the characters are extremely over the top. The problem? We've got tons of characters already like that

And they're all played completely straight. It's why I find it hard to take Dragon's Crown seriously. I don't hate it or think it's offensive. I just don't think it looks very good. Just the same tired and beaten trail we've seen traversed a hundred times already.

I'll warn you now that I hate fighters enough that I simply laugh at character you've provided. Har har har. Your fighters and their character designs are always shit. /dealwithit

But no, on a more serious note, the problem that I have with what you're saying is that you're practically demanding that the line always be moved when it's not enough for you. Not only that, but you're trying really, really hard to focus only on big breasts. I get that you're a guy and all, but come on man, stop thinking with your willy for a few moments.

Wha? I'm not demanding that a line be moved. What? I'm asking how can something like the Sorceress be a parody, when something like the Sorceress has become the norm?

You are demanding that the line be moved. You're viewing something as not enough of a parody, so you're saying that it needs to be taken farther. And thank you for completely ignoring the second half.

If you want me to hit you on the head with my point, I will. You can make a parody of something that has become the norm, which I personally don't think it has despite of your terrible fighters and think it's more just a inflated problem from people whining, just by making sure the rest of the context succeeds in doing so. All of Dragon's Crown establishes itself as the extremeties of stereotypes, so logic would dictate to follow that your big-breasted sorceress should be as well, even if its own example is not quite as grandiose as some of the others like The Fighter.

Maybe you should have titled the thread "How is The Sorceress a parody?".

Ah, that's what you're getting at. Well, to be perfectly honest, I never really saw the fighter or the dwarf as parodies either. I mean, they're not the first massive fighters that positively dwarf (heh) female characters.

http://www.wallwides.com/wallpaper/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/08/11535/Starcraft-Sarah-Kerrigan-Jim-Raynor-Wallpapers.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/gearsofwar/images/b/bf/AnyaMarcusDomJM.jpg

Not to mention I've seen male characters built like them before.

http://www.sentrygun.com/ascension/Useless_Against_Me.jpg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/duke-nukem-3d-1.jpg

I know, I know, Duke Nukem probably isn't the best example, but my point stands. It never really occurred to me that the Fighter and the Dwarf were parodies. I honestly thought that they were all being played straight, partly to precedent.

The Fighter is quite a bit more extreme than either of those first two, that "My Bride is a Mermaid" one is oddly reminiscent to me of the types of anime/manga that fall into the same category as JoJo's Bizarre Adventures (i.e. stupidly drawn and stupid everything else for the sake of stupidity), and Duke is... well... Duke. Hail to the King (of parody).

Taken as a whole, this game should be viewed as "DnD Stereotypes: The Game," and to me is a matter of gestalt that just simply cannot be broken down to as small of pieces as focusing on one character like The Sorceress.

To be honest I was talking about all the characters, I just picked out the Sorceress because, you know, center of all the controversy. And when you put it that way I can kind of see where you're coming from. Maybe I was kinda wrong about the game. Especially when someone else said that there were a few funny hidden messages taking the piss out of the whole thing. I never really hated the game in the first place anyway. I just thought that the models for all the characters sans the Sorcerer and Elf looked stupid. I still think that, but at the very least I understand people who like game's reasoning a lot better.

Thank you.

 

[Euryalus]

The first question I'd like ask is why do you assume exaggerated character designs automatically mean it's a parody meant to take the piss out of female portrayal of characters in video games? All of the art in the game is exaggerated and out of proportion.

It couldn't possibly be doing something else?

As far as I can tell, the designs are very purposefully breaking the golden ratio. What that means artistically doesn't necessarily have anything to do with parody.

I don't even particularly like the art design of this game, but the way this discussion has gone is kind of annoying.

 

[Erttheking]

The first question I'd like ask is why do you assume exaggerated character designs automatically mean it's a parody meant to take the piss out of female portrayal of characters in video games? All of the art in the game is exaggerated and out of proportion.

It couldn't possibly be doing something else?

As far as I can tell, the designs are very purposefully breaking the golden ratio. What that means artistically doesn't necessarily have anything to do with parody.

I don't even particularly like the art design of this game, but the way this discussion has gone is kind of annoying.

The developer came out and flat out said that the characters were supposed to be a parody of characters in the Golden Axe age. Though I still think they look stupid, quite a few commenters have cleared up some issues about them and I kinda see how they would work.