How to ask a girl out (Operation 7)

[the Dept of Science]

Will not work. Too soon. You're almost certainly on the friends ladder with this girl (at the moment). It's going to take a bit of hard work before you can ask her out on a formal date like a lunch/dinner.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE FRIENDS LADDER. The "friends ladder" is a myth perpetrated by guys who don't understand women and how to date them.

Ahem. Carry on.

Just your opinion.

Wrong. If you're getting friends-laddered, you suck at getting women.

You are contradicting yourself. You just said there's no friends ladder, so how can anyone get 'friends-laddered'?

And as much as you'd clearly like to think otherwise, anything you say is simply your opinion.

This is not about subjectivity. Someone disaagreeing with you does not mean that both opinions have equal validity as being simply opinions.

From speaking to women, I would have to say SimuLord is in the right. Women are not RPGs, its not like you start as "aquaintance" at level one, level 20 is "best friend", you grind a few more quests and you suddently reach "boyfriend" status.
Most of the guys I know that are good with women normally completely bypass the any friend stages. I have been in a club, seen a girl, talked for maybe 10 minutes in a fairly overtly sexual way (lots of touching, dancing very close, flirty language etc), had to leave so I got her number and from there organised a date. Lots of people I know (boys and girls) have had similar experiences.
Thats not to say that you can't go from being a friend to a boyfriend or whatever, but it just needs something different.
That something is sexual attraction.
This is not really to do with looks or anything, its just to do with the way you interact with someone. If you just interact with a girl the same way you interact with your guy friends, you will become either the Gay Best Friend or the Best Friend That Fancies You, and thats when you get put in the "friend zone". If however, you come across as a more sexual being, ie. you flirt with girls, you joke around with them, you don't put da pusssy on a pedestal, then you find that the "friends ladder" doesn't really exist.

 

[Knusper]

This might not be much, but I thought that I might be able to provide some advice from someone who has had a slightly different perspective of it all. By that I mean that I have never actually asked any girl out, but on 4 occasions I have been asked out by a girl (different one each time), I refused each one.

The reason why I said no to each of them(other than the fact I am a bit socially inept) is that, in 3 out of 4 cases, they asked if we could go on a date before we had even just hung out together. I think I would have been more inclined to say yes if we had had a few more if we were good friends before it.

And so my point is, she is more likely to say yes if you just hang around with her and some mutual friends (assuming you DO share some friends) and get her to see you as a good friend before you actually ask her out.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

Ah, asking out your crush. I had a crush in high school. In senior year, she was one of my classes and I wanted to ask her out. But the problem is that I am painfully shy. I regret not getting up the courage to just ask her out.

So, next time you see her, start up a short conversation then ask her "Want to meet me up for dinner/coffee/lunch." If you do go see a movie, take her to lunch/coffee/dinner before or afterwards. Movies don't provide enough opportunities to chat.

Don't waste this chance kid. Better getting rejected then not ever knowing. I am still trying to track this girl down.

Yeah I'm leaning toward that... and plus your avatar is so kick ass, I think the universe might explode if I don't follow it.

 

[hyperhammy]

Getting up the courage to ask is 9001x more difficult than actually asking.

"Hey, let me buy you a cup of coffee/lunch/dinner" is all you really need.

"Hey let me buy you a cup of dinner" sounds like something my best friend would say when getting nervous. xD
Just talk to her, ask her to hang out, w/e.
I'm mean, what are you, 12?

 

[the Dept of Science]

This is not about subjectivity. Someone disaagreeing with you does not mean that both opinions have equal validity as being simply opinions.

From speaking to women, I would have to say SimuLord is in the right. Women are not RPGs, its not like you start as "aquaintance" at level one, level 20 is "best friend", you grind a few more quests and you suddently reach "boyfriend" status.
Most of the guys I know that are good with women normally completely bypass the any friend stages. I have been in a club, seen a girl, talked for maybe 10 minutes in a fairly overtly sexual way (lots of touching, dancing very close, flirty language etc), had to leave so I got her number and from there organised a date. Lots of people I know (boys and girls) have had similar experiences.
Thats not to say that you can't go from being a friend to a boyfriend or whatever, but it just needs something different.
That something is sexual attraction.
This is not really to do with looks or anything, its just to do with the way you interact with someone. If you just interact with a girl the same way you interact with your guy friends, you will become either the Gay Best Friend or the Best Friend That Fancies You, and thats when you get put in the "friend zone". If however, you come across as a more sexual being, ie. you flirt with girls, you joke around with them, you don't put da pusssy on a pedestal, then you find that the "friends ladder" doesn't really exist.

YOU think our opinions do not have equal validity. That is your OPINION.

We're not talking about men who are good with women.

Regardless, the things you are describing fit entirely with what I'm saying.

Ok, firstly, this discussion is not about opinions is about getting results. Some courses of action will just yield better results. If I gave this guy some bad advice and he asks this girl out and it doesn't work for him, I couldn't just say to him "well, thats just your opinion". If I told him to punch the girl in the face, it would be objectively bad advice.
Secondly, we aren't talking about men who are good with women granted. We are however, talking about a man who wants to be better with women. Generally a good way to get better at something is to look at how good people do it, then trying to emulate them.
If what I am describing fits entirely with what you are saying, then I apologise, I misunderstood what you meant by the "friends ladder", and rereading your OP then I agree with what you are saying. I thought you meant it in the way I described, like the RPG, rather than the whole "friend zone" thing.

To which I would say, to some extent, I think both of you are right.
The "Friend Zone" definately exists. Women categorise men in just the same way that we do. If you want to date a girl, its generally quicker and easier to completely bypass the whole friend thing. Being a girls friend and being her lover are two very different things, and being a friend is neither necessary nor sufficient for being her lover. It is, however, very often used as an excuse by guys who simply haven't created enough attraction. It's possible to get out of it, but not in the way that most guys do. Acting like a friend for ages then suddenly just asking her on a date is not the way to go. You do need, like you suggested, to make her comfortable with touching, demonstrate value and just generally increase the sexual element to the relationship.

 

[Theninja'skatana]

Ehh if she's fairly comfortable with you It'll be quick and easy. Trust me don't wait or you'll regret it. Go for it!

 

[Uly5535]

You have to be charming, witty, funny and confident, any three of those four in conjunction will win you the day, all four works exceptionally well. You can do this.

 

[Zer_]

Getting up the courage to ask is 9001x more difficult than actually asking.

"Hey, let me buy you a cup of coffee/lunch/dinner" is all you really need.

huh, that ones new. I think I might use that on other girls if I can't get her, right now I am sort of leaning toward "Hey, would you like to see a movie with me sometime?"

Movies can work against you for a first date. If you've known her for a long time, and know her very well, then you can probably afford to do it. Otherwise stick to something like coffee or dinner. Movies don't allow for much conversation, dinners give you a chance to converse and get to know each others as more than friends.

"So, I know this great place that makes awesome pizza, I thought I might introduce you to such awesomeness. You game?"

 

[Peteron]

Ok. Walk up to her, and ask "Hello, would you like to go out on a date sometime?" Do I have to spell it out to you agent? (A gold star to whoever gets the joke) Ask her out before the L4D tournament, and if she says yes, then woopie for you. If she rejects you, then pretend each zombie is her. You will win that competition for sure. Those zombies will be missing all their limbs.

 

[the Dept of Science]

Any discussion involves opinions. It is SimuLord's opinion, apparently, that the friends ladder does not exist - it's mine that it does. We each have our opinions. I'm not telling anyone to punch anyone else in the face.

It is my contention that women do not categorise men in the same way that men categorise women. Hence the friends ladder. You and SimuLord disagree, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion on the subject. As am I to mine.

Yes, but either girls have this idea of a "friend ladder" in their minds or they don't. Our opinions have no bearing on whether it is true in reality. If they do have this idea of a "friend ladder" then you are right. If they don't then SimuLord and I are right.

In this case, because we are talking about something external to personal experience, then different opinions do not have equal validity. The fact that they are opinions is not sufficient proof to say that there is no correct answer to the matter.

 

[Imp Poster]

Any discussion involves opinions. It is SimuLord's opinion, apparently, that the friends ladder does not exist - it's mine that it does. We each have our opinions. I'm not telling anyone to punch anyone else in the face.

It is my contention that women do not categorise men in the same way that men categorise women. Hence the friends ladder. You and SimuLord disagree, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion on the subject. As am I to mine.

Yes, but either girls have this idea of a "friend ladder" in their minds or they don't. Our opinions have no bearing on whether it is true in reality. If they do have this idea of a "friend ladder" then you are right. If they don't then SimuLord and I are right.

"Friends ladder" is a nice way of saying you can't hang (with the girl) in a "love" relationship. Does it exist? Well, depends on if you are really still friends with the girl after trying, doesn't it? Most of the time, I find that you are labeled as a friend, but not really a friend at all. It's a mirage.

OP: This again? It just feels like non-stop. Wonder what it feels like for her? In the end you gotta just do it. If you are giving her signs that you like her over a long period of time, she probably WILL say no. If you take too long to ask her out and she hasn't said no to your signs of liking her, she probably is turned off by now.

 

[GeorgW]

I love how the escapist has become like a relationship advice column! Every day I see someone asking for relationship advice. But I'm bored, som I'm gonna give this a shot.

Dude, just ask her out. If she accepts, great! If not, at least you tried. And if you're nervous, just remember that it's worth it. What's a moment of immense embarrasment compared to spending the rest of your life with your soulmate? (probably not what's gonna happen, but you never know )
If you want to ease into it, hang out with her as friends, and see if you even have anything in common. If she seems to like you as a person and friend, she will be more likely to date you. 'Cuz let's face it, do you even know her as a person or are you just learing at her body all day long?

 

[royohz]

Your Pyro pic just keeps giving me a vision of you setting her on fire should it go wrong.
Also I guess this proves the pyros a man

Unless the pyro is the girl that sets his heart on fire.

OT: I am having a similar problem, and these threads help me come up with new ideas and improving my "strategies" (note the quotation marks, no such thing as strategies, too many variables).

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Acting like a friend for ages then suddenly just asking her on a date is not the way to go.

As a guy who is pretty consistently friend zoned, I can say that this, at least, is true. There comes a point where you've been platonic friends for so long, that switching it to a romantic relationship is just not going to happen, barring some sort of miracle. I'll also say that, in the most of the few times that something did happen between a girl and myself, the chemistry clicked as soon as we met. Now whether any long term relationship came out of that is another story, but as far as actually getting a date is concerned, friends first -- at least the way most nerds do it -- is not the way to go. That said, my roommate is in a relationship that started with friendship and has already lasted the better part of a year, so it's not like it can't work, or like it doesn't lead to a committed relationship if it leads to one at all.

Also, this is slightly off topic, but why do people keep coming to the escapist for relationship advice? Bonsaik and Simulord tend to be the ones answering these questions because they're the two members that have a fair amount of experience. There was a poll recently that found that less than a quarter of the membership was in a relationship, with another 8.8% claiming that it was complicated. here's [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.236173-Poll-Your-relationship-status?page=7] the link, if anyone's interested.

 

[SimuLord]

Getting up the courage to ask is 9001x more difficult than actually asking.

"Hey, let me buy you a cup of coffee/lunch/dinner" is all you really need.

"Hey let me buy you a cup of dinner" sounds like something my best friend would say when getting nervous. xD
Just talk to her, ask her to hang out, w/e.
I'm mean, what are you, 12?

Can I borrow a feeling? Can you lend me a cup of love?

 

[ICanBreakTheseCuffs]

just ask her out at the next opportunity so you can get it out of the way. if she says no, thats fine because you needed to get over her anyway.

I've tried this 6 times, I am not fast enough, once I missed the operotenity by a couple minuites... My luck sucks.

get someone to slap you if you don't take the chance or tell someone to tell them you need to tell them something because that's what I did once.

 

[SimuLord]

Ok, firstly, this discussion is not about opinions is about getting results. Some courses of action will just yield better results. If I gave this guy some bad advice and he asks this girl out and it doesn't work for him, I couldn't just say to him "well, thats just your opinion". If I told him to punch the girl in the face, it would be objectively bad advice.
Secondly, we aren't talking about men who are good with women granted. We are however, talking about a man who wants to be better with women. Generally a good way to get better at something is to look at how good people do it, then trying to emulate them.
If what I am describing fits entirely with what you are saying, then I apologise, I misunderstood what you meant by the "friends ladder", and rereading your OP then I agree with what you are saying. I thought you meant it in the way I described, like the RPG, rather than the whole "friend zone" thing.

To which I would say, to some extent, I think both of you are right.
The "Friend Zone" definately exists. Women categorise men in just the same way that we do. If you want to date a girl, its generally quicker and easier to completely bypass the whole friend thing. Being a girls friend and being her lover are two very different things, and being a friend is neither necessary nor sufficient for being her lover. It is, however, very often used as an excuse by guys who simply haven't created enough attraction. It's possible to get out of it, but not in the way that most guys do. Acting like a friend for ages then suddenly just asking her on a date is not the way to go. You do need, like you suggested, to make her comfortable with touching, demonstrate value and just generally increase the sexual element to the relationship.

Any discussion involves opinions. It is SimuLord's opinion, apparently, that the friends ladder does not exist - it's mine that it does. We each have our opinions. I'm not telling anyone to punch anyone else in the face.

It is my contention that women do not categorise men in the same way that men categorise women. Hence the friends ladder. You and SimuLord disagree, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion on the subject. As am I to mine.

I'd like to know which of us has had more success with women given our "opinion". I suspect I've rejected more women than you will ever fuck.