How To Improve WoW

[zenoaugustus]

snip

I see you have absolutely no concept what-so-ever of what has actually caused all these problems.

It all stems from one singular stupis mistake blizzard made.

They use the same talent trees for pvp as for pve. We've seen it admitted before that because of pvp balance issues are...well issues.

If they had simply made SEPERATE pvp and pve trees then we could have our fantastic pve setup and our constantly whined about pvp trees. The reason paladins are so OP is because of pvp, the reason rogues are being nerfed every-single-time theres an update is because of pvp. The same goes for priests and shaman getting their healing spells fiddled with all the time.

PVP has ruined the life of PVE since the dawn of wow. They shouldve made them separate but no, when it comes to common sense and less hassle blizzard are quite frankly one of the most stupid developers on the *planet*. (second only to Ubisoft and their DRM obssessed ilk)

I agree with that completely. Separate the two, because they are different. They can't go hand in hand.

 

[Sunstrider]

Your complaints hit the nail on the head for most of us zeno, but the problem is that every time they simplify the game, hundreds, or thousands, of new players join for every one that quits. Blizzard isn't out to make a good game, they're out to make a good profit, and in the end they're just a business. Funny how a good game and good profit don't seem to go hand in hand.

 

[Heavic]

I have to call bullshit on your "Make the game hard again" complaint.

That would make WoW shitty. A game should be accessible to everyone, not just the guys spending all their freetime playing it.

I played WoW since Vanilla and I do have to say it has gotten relatively easier (in terms of how long we spend on a raid and who we can just carry through). Back then we actually needed guilds and to be ready to play for a while. Now we just clear ToC in 30 mins and gear up any scrub we can find.

This causes scrubs calling other scrubs scrubs. While it was humorous, it was also quite spam-ful and depressing.

The reason I quit was because of achievement-whoring and gearscore. Those two things suddenly made the game not fun.

 

[Iwata]

I don't play WoW, but from what I know of it, I'd venture saying that a simply graphical overhawl could do wonders for what is already quite a popular game.

As far as gameplay mechanics go, I'm afraid I don't know enough to throw my hat in the ring.

 

[zenoaugustus]

I have to call bullshit on your "Make the game hard again" complaint.

That would make WoW shitty. A game should be accessible to everyone, not just the guys spending all their freetime playing it.

I played WoW since Vanilla and I do have to say it has gotten relatively easier (in terms of how long we spend on a raid and who we can just carry through). Back then we actually needed guilds and to be ready to play for a while. Now we just clear ToC in 30 mins and gear up any scrub we can find.

This causes scrubs calling other scrubs scrubs. While it was humorous, it was also quite spam-ful and depressing.

The reason I quit was because of achievement-whoring and gearscore. Those two things suddenly made the game not fun.

Excuse my language everyone, but fuck achievements. I don't need someone telling me when I achieved something. And it just seems like a bunch of horse shit; just to keep everyone playing the game doing things they don't care for just to get an achievement. My achievement is having fun. Do they have an achievement for smiling? Or laughing? Or enjoying yourself? Didn't think so.

 

[zenoaugustus]

Your complaints hit the nail on the head for most of us zeno, but the problem is that every time they simplify the game, hundreds, or thousands, of new players join for every one that quits. Blizzard isn't out to make a good game, they're out to make a good profit, and in the end they're just a business. Funny how a good game and good profit don't seem to go hand in hand.

Ain't that the truth,

 

[DeathChairOfHell]

the game is all about how much you play, skills? not so much.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

I'm a bit annoyed by people getting mounts at level 20 now. I remember when I started, I was so excited after slaving for days with grinding to be able to buy my awesome Raptor at level 45, now it hardly gives any bragging rights. I WANT MY BRAGGING RIGHTS!

I've quit WoW, though. I might play again when Cataclysm comes, I need something new and fresh, and nothing screams new and fresh like a Worgen.

Also, I hope they improve the level gap between 40 and 50. My God, was that part stale. No good quests except the ones that demanded big groups. They don't do well in appealing to slow players either. I wasn't playing on a hardcore basis, I was playing a few hours a day, and I sucked pretty much at the game, so I moved pretty slowly in levels, while all my friends were leaping the levels, leaving me in the dust.

 

[dommyuk]

There are like 2 or 3 of them, and they are epic.

But to be negative against WoW, I don't like how everything becomes accessible in terms of classes. I mean, a Tauren Paladin? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!

Soon you'll be telling me that Indians joined the Crusade against the Muslims.

Yeah, that is what I was saying, I just wish that some common sense would go into this. I would feel so much better if they were called something else, and had the restoration tree rather than the holy tree, but still played close to a Paladin. An Eartherwarder, as I had said. Dwarf Shaman? No. Human Hunter? No. Draenei Shaman? Never liked it. Blood Elf Paladin? They are stealing their holy powers from a Naaru. That's probably the least holy thing I've ever heard of. Forsaken Hunters? Right, they are in touch with nature. Gnome Warrior? Maybe if they aim for the balls, otherwise, no. Same goes for Goblins.

My biggest issue is this class issue. Limit it. Make them make sense. Not this absurd shit.

What's the point in limiting it? Surely giving more options for the player is a better thing? I don't understand why people think it 'makes no sense', the lore is progressing, there's no reason it should remain the same, infact it would make less sense if it stayed the same.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

Raid content at level 60 was challenging because everything was new and nobody was really very good at the game. Raid content now seems easier only because we've seen every fight mechanic in play by now, so it seems like old news. Make no mistake, the content in WotLK is the hardest the game has seen, even if it was killed very quickly by the top 10 guilds in the world.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

the game is all about how much you play, skills? not so much.

Not what I hear from my WoW buddies who much often talk tactics. When you finally reach highest level and get good gear, you start hunting achievements and raiding and doing battlegrounds. My friends have to discuss heavy tactics to figure out the best way to win.

 

[Bigsmith]

I don't play WoW, but from what I know of it, I'd venture saying that a simply graphical overhawl could do wonders for what is already quite a popular game.

As far as gameplay mechanics go, I'm afraid I don't know enough to throw my hat in the ring.

Personaly i think upgrading the graphics would be a bad idea, even realy good computers can be caused to chug in populated areas of wow. I no mine does (it isn't a super computer, buts its good) and the graphics arn't actualy set to extream either. Now... if it was optional that would be different.

 

[theultimateend]

They use the same talent trees for pvp as for pve. We've seen it admitted before that because of pvp balance issues are...well issues.

That's what I've been saying for about the entire time WoW existed.

I really wish they had forked them to at least have different effects in each form of combat. Always unfortunate to see my characters nerfed hardcore because PVP players are having a fit. How many times have they ever nerfed PVP for PVE? I'm guessing never but probably a little more than that.

I'm a bit annoyed by people getting mounts at level 20 now.

Basically nobody that starts wow goes beyond level 10. This brings something into reach that will get them playing to 20. Basically if you play that long you should theoretically make some friends and then the game gets exceptionally pleasant.

I stop for long periods at a time, but when I return my guildmates are still playing, and it is nice to talk with familiar folks (vent mostly). Always looked at WoW as the most complicated chat program ever made.

 

[zenoaugustus]

There are like 2 or 3 of them, and they are epic.

But to be negative against WoW, I don't like how everything becomes accessible in terms of classes. I mean, a Tauren Paladin? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!

Soon you'll be telling me that Indians joined the Crusade against the Muslims.

Yeah, that is what I was saying, I just wish that some common sense would go into this. I would feel so much better if they were called something else, and had the restoration tree rather than the holy tree, but still played close to a Paladin. An Eartherwarder, as I had said. Dwarf Shaman? No. Human Hunter? No. Draenei Shaman? Never liked it. Blood Elf Paladin? They are stealing their holy powers from a Naaru. That's probably the least holy thing I've ever heard of. Forsaken Hunters? Right, they are in touch with nature. Gnome Warrior? Maybe if they aim for the balls, otherwise, no. Same goes for Goblins.

My biggest issue is this class issue. Limit it. Make them make sense. Not this absurd shit.

What's the point in limiting it? Surely giving more options for the player is a better thing? I don't understand why people think it 'makes no sense', the lore is progressing, there's no reason it should remain the same, infact it would make less sense if it stayed the same.

Giving more options is good, but have it go with the lore. Yes the lore can progress, but Tauren aren't Paladins. End of story. I don't want to hear it. Eartherwarders works for me, as I have already explained. Night Elf Mages makes sense, due to the lore (regarding the Highborne and first Well of Eternity). I don't mind more options, but have them be intelligent options.

 

[Tharwen]

Doing things like changing a tree exclusively for the Tauren would just make the game harder for Blizzard to balance.

The dual spec feature is part of Blizzard's plan to make it easier for people to try different gameplay types. Whereas in vanilla, you were (usually) a PvP player or a PvE player, in WotLK you can now get PvP gear by raiding and vice versa. The dual spec just means it's easier to switch between these two types of gameplay and you can get more enjoyment from the same character. It also means that you don't have to stall a raid just to wait for the last person with the spec you need when someone else can just swap out their gear and spec to fulfil the same role.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Snip

Now if we could only get the wow community to actually get behind this instead of stupid changes like "I want to pay to change factions instead of making a new character coz i'm a lazy dick", then it'll improve significantly.

As for the difficulty discussion. I agree its too easy these days, in the fact of its down to about 3 different types of fight. Burn it down fast, Out heal it, Stay out of the fire/ooze/gas/whatever.

I remember I posted up an entire dungeon and entrance area that followed none of these traditional rules per se. It was an epic quest that would take days of playtime just to *get* to the dungeon. Then you had to fight a world boss who kicks you off a cliff, then you had to do something i thought quite special. You had to fight off waves of enemies spawning from the entrance while protecting shadow priests, rogues and feral druids and avoiding blasts from giant cannon turrets. the shadow priests mind controlled an enemy on a side gate. they would then use these beings to turn on switches which opened doors in the bottom of the turrets which your ferals and rogues had to stealth into, kill some dudes and then disarm the turrets. By which time you should have enough pieces of the door key to unlock it.

So it was a test of surviving. Do it too quick and you dont get enough pieces. Do it too long and you run the risk over being turret fodder.

Once inside there were one of each class of boss (paladin, rogue, druid, shaman, warrior, death knight, warlock mage, priest, hunter) Each had a really nasty set of phases and the further in you got the more devious they became. The paladin for example (which was 4th boss in or something) was a one shot boss, if you wiped even once, he bubble hearthed out and you got no loot. On the final boss the druid boss from earlier would be ressed by the paladin if he hearthed and they would be running around in stealth randomly applying dots or stuns to your raid group.

The best part I thought up was this. The main loot set was at the pen-ultimate boss, the priest. She would randomly mind control people and make them suicide into the furances around the room, and ressurection didnt work during her encounter, so if you died you were permadead until she went down. But that still was not the best part. As mentioned all the loot from the previous bosses was collected here (each one dropped a key for a chest) If you wiped one a boss there was one less item of loot available overall. So if you wiped 20 times on the first boss then there were 20 less items overall at the end.

And just to be mean when you down the final boss(troll rogue) he would execute an enraged killing spree that one hits everyone in the raid so just before he dies a paladin has to shield a ressurector so he can revive everyone at the end. It collapses when anyone leaves the room so you'd get no loot.

There was a lot more detail but i cant remember it sinc eit was almost a year ago and no doubt buried in the suggestion forums on the EU servers.

 

[someotherguy]

I agree with your points, nearly all of them. I played WoW, and quit because of all the grind. Don't get me wrong, grind should be necessary, but devs need to devise it in a way where players don't feel like they're grinding. Anyway, I completely agree with your point on how there should be a sense of amazement in the fact you won't get to see a boss for a long time, without goals - boredom breeds. But, there are people who feel it should be available for all, and I can agree on that - to an extent. It all comes down to (in my opinion) To picking a market you want to appeal to, and sticking with it.

 

[BloodyThoughts]

I hate that a Warcraft 4 is virtually impossible while WoW trundles on. Maybe something to do with that.

Exactly!

Just get rid of WoW all together and make Warcraft 4! Come Blizzard! I used to love you!

 

[GothmogII]

There are like 2 or 3 of them, and they are epic.

But to be negative against WoW, I don't like how everything becomes accessible in terms of classes. I mean, a Tauren Paladin? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!

Soon you'll be telling me that Indians joined the Crusade against the Muslims.

Yeah, that is what I was saying, I just wish that some common sense would go into this. I would feel so much better if they were called something else, and had the restoration tree rather than the holy tree, but still played close to a Paladin. An Eartherwarder, as I had said. Dwarf Shaman? No. Human Hunter? No. Draenei Shaman? Never liked it. Blood Elf Paladin? They are stealing their holy powers from a Naaru. That's probably the least holy thing I've ever heard of. Forsaken Hunters? Right, they are in touch with nature. Gnome Warrior? Maybe if they aim for the balls, otherwise, no. Same goes for Goblins.

My biggest issue is this class issue. Limit it. Make them make sense. Not this absurd shit.

Spoiler

Human Hunter
Nathanos Marris, the first (and only) Human to be trained by the elves as a ranger. If that is not enough, please fly yourselves out to Grizzly Hills, where a fine selection of hunting lodges have been prepared for you. Yes, I know that technically most of these hunters are Worgen now (SPOILER ALERT!), but only after Arugal (SPOILER ALERT!) messed with them.

Orc Mage
All the arcane magic of a warlock without that nasty business about damning your soul. Perhaps the Blood Elves have managed to teach some of the more studious orcs about the secrets of the arcane? Or perhaps, as the WoW comic shows, Garona's orc/draenei/human hybrid monstrosity of a child, Med'an, returns home to show off the fact that he can do everything. Arcane, holy, druidic and shamanistic magic? Kid's a bigger Mary Sue than fucking Rhonin, seriously.

Night Elf Mage
These dudes are the original Highborne. They didn't leave Kalimdor after the Sundering (so didn't become High Elves) and are likely allied with the Shen'dralar in Dire Maul. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE ENTIRE NIGHT ELF RACE IS PLAYING AROUND WITH MAGIC. Yes, I know that Night Elves hate Arcane magic. Stormwind hates Fel magic in much the same way, but you can still roll a human warlock.

Dwarf Mage
Trivia: Dwarves were actually able to be Mages way back in beta. It was changed close to release - so close that the original manual shows Mage as a possible class option. I know that this doesn't exactly justify Mages, but it's pretty goddamned obvious to be honest. Look at the Dark Irons in Blackrock Depths. Mages (and warlocks). Emperor Thaurissan himself is a mage.

Blood Elf Warrior
While the magic dependancy does make warriors feel a little wrong (which is why they were removed in beta), they can already be rogues and hunters. They aren't exactly mana using classes either. There are plenty of Blood Elf warriors running around in the world, just attack any Blood Elf settlement and they'll swarm all over you. Or try killing Kael'thas Sunstrider and his friends in Tempest Keep - at least two of his advisers are warriors.

Dwarf Shaman
This one is easy - the Wildhammer have been shaman and druids since forever. They're friendly with the Alliance, but prefer to keep to themselves until they're really needed. With the Cataclysm fucking up damn near everything, I guess the Alliance finally called them in.

Undead Hunter
Remember that ranger dude, Nathanos Marris? You may also know him as Nathanos Blightcaller up in the Eastern Plaguelands. Dude even has a couple of plague puppies as pets. But there's an even more obvious one here, one that makes anyone complaining about this particular combination a complete retard: Sylvanas Windrunner.

Tauren Priest
OK, this is where the stretching starts. The first thing you need to understand is that the Holy Light isn't a specific deity or religion itself. Night Elves and Humans follow different faiths, but both can channel the Light as priests. The Tauren belief system is all about the Earth Mother, kind of a personification of the land and nature itself. According to them the Earth Mother has two eyes - An'she the sun and Mu'sha the moon. The parallels between Mu'sha and Elune basically point to them being the same deity, and Elune is where the Night Elves get all their nifty druid spell powers from - things like Moonfire. Now... think about what would happen if the druids tried tapping in to the light of An'she instead. I'll tell you would would happen - a Tauren Priest would happen.

Tauren Paladin
Because if something is worth doing, it's worth doing in plate. Please note in case you are retarded, this does not mean that Tauren will be the same crusaders that humans are. They'll be getting the paladin skill set without all the bullshit baggage that comes with it on the Alliance side, exactly the same as the Blood Knight order. Expect another sweet new IC name for them, something mystical or whatever.

Gnome Priest
Again... kind of a stretch since the gnomes analytical mind doesn't seem to lend itself well to the Light, but they're insatiably curious and must be dying to know how the priests and paladins they've been fighting alongside have been doing those nifty things. Now, after five or six years of hard study, they're getting the hang of it.

BONUS THEORY: Gnomes have always been priests (supported by the gnome medics dressed as priests and casting priest spells inside Gnomeregan), but most were lost in The Incident. With the Cataclysm and the retaking of Gnomeregan (please!), the few priests still around have begun to take on students again.

Troll Druid
Come the fuck on! Trolls have been dealing with nature and the spirits as Shaman since forever and they've been shapeshifting even longer. You want an example? Look at any troll-themed raid in the game. Zul'Aman and Gundrak are probably the best example, especially Zul'Aman since it already features a Bear, Lynx and Eagle (and a Dragonhawk, but whatever), giving a perfect way to introduce those forms IC. Remember the druid quest to talk to the bear spirit at level 10? Now imagine that you're a Troll and the bear spirit is Nalorakk.

The above was taken from elsewhere, pretty lore & RP sided, but it provides some good explanations for the new class/race choices. Personally, I don't think it's really going to make a huge difference, and indeed makes -more- sense than restricting the classes. Okay, fair enough, if people don't understand why Tauren should be paladins, but really, if the question is why, the answer therefore is why not? Steer clear if you don't like the idea