How to win the girl. (Some help for all the "best friends" out there.)

[Macgyvercas]

Interesting advice, but I'll stick with what BonsaiK says. He's the relationship guru here.

 

[maximilian]

Right, hmmm, ok... let's see how to make a constructive reply to this. Ah yes...

Good advice I think. Pointing out that females are, in fact, merely humans with two XX chromosomes is a good point. We ain't a mysterious race of creatures native to Venus, nor do we all look like pre-raphalite pictures of the that same Roman godess however.

I find it curious that there is an asumption that you can't go from friendship into relationship and that atractiveness will be the thing that kicks everything off. For those people (and in this context read 'for those women') who lack the body confidence this kind of appears to put those sorts of people at a disadvantage.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's all to do with appreance to start of with but I kinda hope not...

Thank you for the considered reply.

Essentially, the assumption regarding attraction could more specifically be referred to as making sure, subconciously, that the girl knows she is a girl, and that the guy knows he is a guy, and that the guy behaves in a way that keeps the possiblity of romantic relationship open.

My girlfriend was my friend for two years, however, the way we began our relationship initially was one where I established that I was not a doormat and that I could live without her. This is opposed to me becoming something of a "galpal", where my gender gets lost in the mix.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I'm really trying to write this as a shaking shoulders wake up call to so many guys I see doing exactly the opposite as I've described above, then coming to me to complain about how they're a girls friend, and then asking my advice.

I think the best advice you could give people is:
Don't go looking for advice to replace your own personality with, just try approaching each situation on it's own merits and react to it how you would react.

People asking for advice have generally already taken advice off of someone else and that advice is pretty incorrect because the advice is working in black and white and isn't flexible, making it useful on about 5% of the people you'll ever meet.

It's kind of tragic, really, how they're stuck asking for advice because someone gave them advice which is making them all tense and like "THIS IS HOW I SHOULD ACT".

 

[maximilian]

ergh I would never go out with a guy who is this predictable, seriously guys who just are themselves are much more attractive

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Private Custard]

No matter what's required to crawl out of the friend zone, I absolutely refuse to be someone I'm not. What's the point in fucking someone if you've basically had to talk (or fool) them into it??

If you click, you click. If you don't, find someone else.

So, do you stifle all your opinions, be sycophantic and fawn all over your male or female platonic buddies?
If the answer is "no", then the problem you're having (and as described above) IS that you cannot stop yourself changing. It isn't that you need to change your personality, it's that you need to take precautions to make sure you don't become a human doormat around the one person it most counts. The girl isn't changing. You are.

Of course, if you're telling girls lies to sleep with them, then I agree with you.

I'm myself, that's all I'm willing to be. If I agree with someone, they'll know about it. Ditto if I disagree. I'm anything but a doormat!

There's a girl I've liked for a few years now, we've flirted a lot but not really done anything about it. If something happens then so be it. But I don't force the issue or change myself just to get over what's basically the final hurdle. If it's meant to happen then it will.

Using tricks to bed someone just seems like a total sellout. It's mostly the reason I dropped out of the dating game a long time ago, it's mostly bullshit and fakery. Like building a house on a sandy beach, the foundations are fucked right from the off.

 

[maximilian]

I think the best advice you could give people is:
Don't go looking for advice to replace your own personality with, just try approaching each situation on it's own merits and react to it how you would react.

People asking for advice have generally already taken advice off of someone else and that advice is pretty incorrect because the advice is working in black and white and isn't flexible, making it useful on about 5% of the people you'll ever meet.

It's kind of tragic, really, how they're stuck asking for advice because someone gave them advice which is making them all tense and like "THIS IS HOW I SHOULD ACT".

I would give that advice in a world where this problem doesn't exist. The problem being exactly that: that guys don't act how they would normally act around a girl.
I think it is unwise, however, to think that your natural reaction (be her best friend and agree with her constantly and never challenge her)is the right one.

And similarly, I think my advice is a step in the right direction.

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Try it out. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

 

[DoubleRainbow]

Well, first of all I'd like to say that you have a way with words my friend, it's... entrancing.

Secondly, although it's true it might not work with every girl this is sound advice for guys in this situation and I thank you for taking time out and writing this for complete strangers (some who won't appreciate it no matter what). My regards.

 

[maximilian]

I'm myself, that's all I'm willing to be. If I agree with someone, they'll know about it. Ditto if I disagree. I'm anything but a doormat!

There's a girl I've like for a few years now, we've flirted a lot but not really done anything about it. If something happens then so be it. But I don't force the issue or change myself just to get over what's basically the final hurdle. If it's meant to happen then it will.

Using tricks to bed someone just seems like a total sellout. It's mostly the reason I dropped out of the dating game a long time ago, it's mostly bullshit and fakery. Like building a house on a sandy beach, the foundations are fucked right from the off.

Well then - you hardly need my advice!

Similarly, as I've said before, my advice is for guys looking to start a relationship with that dream girl, but always end up in friendship territory.
I don't talk about sex at all, and if you read the OP, you'll see that I directly advise against deception in any way. My advice is merely a way for a guy to moderate the bad natural submission he goes into at the sight of *that* girl.

 

[Naheal]

Well, congrats. You took a two page thesis and condensed it into two paragraphs.

It that a criticism of my OP? My OP was written in detail for those who are seeking detailed advice. While she did sum up my post very well, I can hardly write that summary as a way of helping the guys who experience these problems. To provide that summary would be like telling Hitler to win WW2 by "defeating Russia and then Britain and the USA." It's true, summarised advice, but it isn't much help unless supported with practical examples.

It is. Unfortunately, people have a distinct tendency to stop reading past the first paragraph or two, especially on the internet. While you do, for the most part, provide good advice, you did little to nothing to keep the attention of your target audience, which limits what your audience will catch.

Especially since this person put a tl/dr which was essentially what you said, but lacking in the substance and you ripped them apart.

He summarised my "thesis" as "CHILL", not adding anything to the thread at all. Then he supported the fact that he didn't add anything to the thread by saying he was tired (evidently not enough to NOT push "reply") and then photodumped in it.

Indeed. However, the majority of your advice could be boiled down to one word: Chill. Again, he lacked the substance that you had when you posed that gigantic text block. What you showed there was the exact opposite of what you had just advocated in your own thesis. Rather than joking about how you were really quite long winded there (you were) you decided to rip apart the person. Which you're still doing.

 

[laststandman]

twas a very long post

 

[Private Custard]

my advice is for guys looking to start a relationship with that dream girl, but always end up in friendship territory.

I'm used to the friendship zone.

I'm not in the right frame of mind for relationships at the moment though. I haven't even sorted myself out yet, the friensdhip zone is a nice, non-demanding place to be!

 

[Mr Montmorency]

Hm... Some of this advice already applies to me. For one thing, I already do self depreciating humor on my own and make jabs at girls anyway because I'm confident they'll never like me anyway. It's a correct prediction, but I'm pretty sure that's because I'm "lucky" enough not to find one who would find it attractive.

 

[Rarhnor]

Essentially, resist the urge to play pre-relationship boyfriend. The only way she will cope with this sudden intimacy of you fawning over her will either be by instantly mentally declaring you a friend (validating your over protective behaviour) or finding you creepy.

I see. You shouldn't completely throw away the concern for the other, right? Just don't overdo it. If not then how are the girl supposed to acknowledge ones ability and will to protect her?
From my point of view, you would come off being arrogant and distant, if not at least confirming the given "threat". Let us not forget, if the situation regarding the bug, is a gamble to get ones attention.
I get the creepy part. If you come off overprotective and thus showing unsecurity in ones ability to protect her, but I'm still NOT able to comprehend why one would be friendzoned for lightly tending to her wellbeing.

 

[Iron Lightning]

Interesting thread, although I don't quite think it applies to me as I am basically a psychotic caveman.

 

[JanatUrlich]

Dude, you will never get laid if you follow those rules. Seriously. Wow. I actually can't believe that you're being serious!!

You poor, poor human being.

Can you expand on this sentiment, considering I have had girlfriends and am currently in a long term relationship?

I understand the typical response from a girl - "this is laughable, no girl is like this, I'm angry that you would characterise my gender as such" - and I can recognise that all relationships are different, which is why I am addressing this to the guys here who are suffering the issues I've aimed to tackle in the OP. If you want to be snarky, then at least contribute an argument.

This is particularly poignant for me, as I KNOW that these modifications in my behaviour (note: not the girl's) made me more desirable.

Well imagine if I said that to get a guy all us girls have to do is get naked. To be honest that is true when it comes to a lot of guys, but it's the sort of people that you're going to attract. If you start forcing yourself and acting like someone you're not, you're gonna have to keep up that facade and you're going to attract people that you don't necessarily want to attract.

Modifications in your behavior may have attracted more girls, but they're probably not the sort of girls that your actual personality will suit.

Plus it fucking sickens me that you reckon that following guidelines will get you laid. Decent girls can spot guys like you a mile off and trust me, they will stay well away. No-one wants a disgusting little slime ball trying too hard to get into your knickers.

I don't believe that you should change yourself for anyone. Sure, a confidence boost is always a plus but 'be cocky'? Fuck off. Cockiness is the biggest turn off and I can definitely say that as a teenage girl who hangs out with fucking rugby lads.

I would pick apart every aspect of your argument piece by piece but frankly, I don't think there's much hope for you and I don't have enough hours on this earth to tell you everything I dislike about your post. You obviously don't respect women the way you should and I really wanna watch Saw 2. So yeah, have fun and shit. Don't be surprised when you fuck yourself over.

 

[maximilian]

It is. Unfortunately, people have a distinct tendency to stop reading past the first paragraph or two, especially on the internet. While you do, for the most part, provide good advice, you did little to nothing to keep the attention of your target audience, which limits what your audience will catch.

My target audience will have read the post and replied with either agreement or disagreement. People have a choice to click the link and comment. I'm not a TV advert. Similarly, I provided working examples for my points, which were designed to help my target audience.

Indeed. However, the majority of your advice could be boiled down to one word: Chill. Again, he lacked the substance that you had when you posed that gigantic text block. What you showed there was the exact opposite of what you had just advocated in your own thesis. Rather than joking about how you were really quite long winded there (you were) you decided to rip apart the person. Which you're still doing.

I don't understand the point of this reparte between you and I.
First of all, how would you respond to a thread with this title, when the summary, or even whole OP was just "CHILL". Similarly, my "thesis" isn't "how to make friends with people on gaming forums", so my advice is pretty redundant when it comes to this.

And finally, you use the emotive words "ripping apart" to convey some negative or evil action on my behalf.
I posted a thoughtful and detailed thread about a recurring issue on these boards. If defending the thread from being derailed is "ripping apart", then send me a thousand more posters like that and I'd be happy to do the work. I have not once been unreasonably rude, I have merely stated what I thought and provided reasons why.
Similarly, if you call "ripping apart" any attempt to stop this thread being derailed, then I think you aren't really in the spirit of the forums.

And if I'm ripping, then it's the most polite, well reasoned and clean cut ripping ever performed. I could have just posted a massive meme image and said I'm "too tired to reply".

 

[Booze Zombie]

I think it is unwise, however, to think that your natural reaction (be her best friend and agree with her constantly and never challenge her)is the right one.

I don't have a natural reaction like that, I just talk to people, I don't think about it beyond what subject I should bring up in conversation, that sort of stuff.

So, I don't know why other people don't just approach it like that, I guess.
Maybe that's why these sorts of topics leave me thinking "what".

 

[bobknowsall]

Have we considered approaching them as people, as opposed to thinking up plans for how to "win" them?

And as for all you "best friends" out there, I have this advice for you: Just forget it. If she was interested, she would have approached you romantically. She just wants to be friends, and that's how it's going to stay if she has her way. And are you really going to force her to do otherwise? (If so, you're a prick)

 

[maximilian]

I see. You shouldn't completely throw away the concern for the other, right? Just don't overdo it. If not then how are the girl supposed to acknowledge ones ability and will to protect her?
From my point of view, you would come off being arrogant and distant, if not at least confirming the given "threat". Let us not forget, if the situation regarding the bug, is a gamble to get ones attention.
I get the creepy part. If you come off overprotective and thus showing unsecurity in ones ability to protect her, but I'm still NOT able to comprehend why one would be friendzoned for lightly tending to her wellbeing.

Again, thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Essentially, the best way to judge the level of attention would be to treat her just as you would a male buddy. If it's a massive tarantula - go ahead, jump and yell and freak out. But if it's a lady bug and she's freaking out then you can just relax and let her deal with it.

Furthering this point, the concept that you can show you care or be protective by shielding her from a "ladybug" instantly communicates to her that you deem the lady bug threatening at all. I'm sure you can imagine that a girl wants a guy to be calm, controlled and comfortable, especially around stuff that she knows wouldn't freak a guy out normally. So, by "protecting" her from stuff she knows you shouldn't care about, you're essentially weakening your natural inclinations of protection in order to empathise with her situation.
This is a very complicated way of saying that in an effort to show your masculinity, you're jumping around at the sight of lady bugs just to validate her.

Additionally, if she's doing it to get attention, this is a perfect time to not give a damn about the "lady bug" and show her that you're not hanging on her every breath and whim (although you might very well want to!).

 

[Private Custard]

Dude, you will never get laid if you follow those rules. Seriously. Wow. I actually can't believe that you're being serious!!

You poor, poor human being.

Can you expand on this sentiment, considering I have had girlfriends and am currently in a long term relationship?

I understand the typical response from a girl - "this is laughable, no girl is like this, I'm angry that you would characterise my gender as such" - and I can recognise that all relationships are different, which is why I am addressing this to the guys here who are suffering the issues I've aimed to tackle in the OP. If you want to be snarky, then at least contribute an argument.

This is particularly poignant for me, as I KNOW that these modifications in my behaviour (note: not the girl's) made me more desirable.

Well imagine if I said that to get a guy all us girls have to do is get naked. To be honest that is true when it comes to a lot of guys, but it's the sort of people that you're going to attract. If you start forcing yourself and acting like someone you're not, you're gonna have to keep up that facade and you're going to attract people that you don't necessarily want to attract.

Modifications in your behavior may have attracted more girls, but they're probably not the sort of girls that your actual personality will suit.

Plus it fucking sickens me that you reckon that following guidelines will get you laid. Decent girls can spot guys like you a mile off and trust me, they will stay well away. No-one wants a disgusting little slime ball trying too hard to get into your knickers.

I don't believe that you should change yourself for anyone. Sure, a confidence boost is always a plus but 'be cocky'? Fuck off. Cockiness is the biggest turn off and I can definitely say that as a teenage girl who hangs out with fucking rugby lads.

I would pick apart every aspect of your argument piece by piece but frankly, I don't think there's much hope for you and I don't have enough hours on this earth to tell you everything I dislike about your post. You obviously don't respect women the way you should and I really wanna watch Saw 2. So yeah, have fun and shit. Don't be surprised when you fuck yourself over.

I may have savaged one of your posts a few weeks back, but in this case, I agree with you.

Although harshly worded, the underlying idea that you should be true to yourself is one that I agree with.