How to win the girl. (Some help for all the "best friends" out there.)

[maximilian]

First of all, I generally lurk around these forums, and read random topics... However, this whole thread has entertained me immensely in multiple ways, and actually made me want to make an account to post! Hello Escapists!

Thank you for saying what I did not have the eloquence to!
Your last point is something I would like to add to the OP, for the sake of clarity (I tried to ham handedly touch on it with the "tell her you play xbox" reference at the start"). It's exactly that - my GF knows I play video games. She respects that. She also respects that I like fashion, writing, old books, fitness etc etc etc. When I was a "nice guy", I would always second guess "that girl" in order to try and tailor my personality so that it wouldn't be out of line with what I thought she liked. That was sometimes as simple as omitting a large part of my life (gaming).

Thanks to Retosa.

 

[captainwillies]

words

you apart of the "seduction society"?

 

[Daveman]

Hey, I have a question...

I personally don't think I'm shit with girls (I actually probably am though), and I conciously do a lot of the stuff you mention in your post but all the girls I know are really very much over the friendship line and trying it on with them is probably just going to weird them out. I need to find some new girls to hit on. So my question is, how do you meet them?

Well, I need to stress that I really only flirt with girls when I'm fairly sure I could go out with them (or, 100% wanting to go out with them).
I'm not a playa or somebody into one night stands.

As such, I find that I usually meet girls in places that I spend a lot of time - university, work etc.
Of course, depending on how confident you are (talking general confidence as a personality trait), you can pretty much strike up conversation anywhere.

I understand that if you're not in any enforced social circles (uni, work etc.) it can be hard to meet members of the opposite sex. I found joining a gym or sports club is a great way as it teams something physically healthy with that necessary social interaction.

I generally steer away from bars or clubs as I don't find the atmosphere or people suitable to conversation or a girl who I would be attracted to.

Of course, that special girl can often be found in the most unlikely of places!

I think the most important thing to remember is that given my above advice, you shouldn't be dropping pick up lines or anything like that. The best relationships usually come out of good conversation, so I usually like to just get to know a girl I find attractive before I even begin to think about asking her out. Of course, I abide by my advice above so that she still mentally regards me as a potential lover as opposed to a friend.

(Wow, that was awkward to write. You have to realise I'm trying to explain as clearly as possibly the subconcious processes I go through! I'm not actually standing there on the treadmill thinking all this!)

Good answer.

I'm not looking for one night stands either... well, not exclusively. I think I'll be alright when I meet said special girl as I pretty much have cultured most of your recommended behaviourisms just from bits of pop psychology I've picked up on. I'm just getting bored of waiting for her.

I understand how awkward it is to explain self analysis. I do that a lot.

 

[IsraelRocks]

Mmmkay, I think most people know this.

Does this really belong here? No matter how many threads pop up, the Escapist is not a dating site.

god damn it... *erases name from list*

 

[savandicus]

Some very well expressed views maximilian and some good advice too.

I think the biggest problem with the nice guy demographic is the lack of self confidence like you've said. Chilling just isnt enough, you have to be proactive and actually show her who you are. Ask the questions and initiate the conversation, if the conversation between the two of you goes silent you need to start it again.

Real honest conversations are the most important thing during a relationship, the best way to get to know someone is to talk to them. A good piece of advice to guys who find holding conversation to be quite difficult is to think of questions you can ask before hand, what dont you know about her that you can ask about? what can you tell her about yourself that will let her get to know you better?

Also, ALWAYS seek to be winning their heart, whether you've been dating someone for 1 month or 2 years dont become passive and just let a relationship exsist, work on it and seek them.

 

[maximilian]

Right yeah cool whatever. You do realise that when you attempt to put your point across on the internet it might not achieve the desired effect? Believe me, I read your post and it didn't feel like you were politely giving advice. It read like a man who would manipulate himself and others to portray a false image when talking to women.

You clicked, didn't read properly, and then open fired. MUST be my fault.

Blah blah blah cannot be bothered with you anymore. It's late, you're making me angry and my film is more interesting. Have fun with your 'woman'. I definitely believe that you have one. Quote me with a bitchy comment if you wish but I'm not gonna reply, sozz boss. Taking the lazy way out this time.

This is my "bitchy comment" (I'm learning from the best, after all).
You were never even bothered to read any of the post properly so it doesn't surprise me that you can't be bothered to make a rebuttal (or even have any material with which to comprise one).

PS. Amanda becomes the new Jigsaw.

 

[Retosa]

First of all, I generally lurk around these forums, and read random topics... However, this whole thread has entertained me immensely in multiple ways, and actually made me want to make an account to post! Hello Escapists!

Thank you for saying what I did not have the eloquence to!
Your last point is something I would like to add to the OP, for the sake of clarity (I tried to ham handedly touch on it with the "tell her you play xbox" reference at the start"). It's exactly that - my GF knows I play video games. She respects that. She also respects that I like fashion, writing, old books, fitness etc etc etc. When I was a "nice guy", I would always second guess "that girl" in order to try and tailor my personality so that it wouldn't be out of line with what I thought she liked. That was sometimes as simple as omitting a large part of my life (gaming).

Thanks to Retosa.

No problem, and use it if you like. I want to get the message out to people as well. It's not an easy road, but it's nice to see people helping others along it.

I had that problem with a couple of girls, and I also had a lot of problems getting stuck in the "friend zone". This would've been nice advice for me a couple years ago, but instead I get to add my own knowledge and experience to it.

Thanks for the mention, and good post!

 

[maximilian]

Regarding the attention, I'm gonna challenge you to the "the other guy" factor. An interesting guy (in her opinion) is walking by and interacting friendly. Hell! let us even say: she knows him! She and you are on a "not date". (Given you can't read the girls mind, obviously) She craves attention by turning to the "the other guy". What could you do?

I'm merely pointing out the situational exceptions here, but consider it my personal experiment to get on par with your psychological understanding of the female gender.

Edit: If you can't tell I've got little else to do, at the moment.

I think it's unfair to say she "craves attention", but I know what you mean.

I think this is a tough situation. Really, with the OP advice, I'd say that you just need to treat her like your male buddy. Would you be annoyed, apathetic etc if your mate just turned away from your conversation? The main thing is that you don't let her see that it's hurting you, or try to hinder her conversation or derail it. It's a socially rude thing to do (turn away and start talking to someone else), so treat it as such. Don't, whatever you do, try to get "revenge" and do the same thing.

 

[maximilian]

you apart of the "seduction society"?

Not sure what that is... (or want to know!)

EDIT: I googled it. No, I'm not apart of the seduction society. From what I can see they're all about sex and one night stands. It's not really my thing. I'm really happy with my girl!

 

[The_Decoy]

Solid advice, most of this should come naturally if you meet the right girl though. I did some of this stuff in here without realising it, now have the girl I'd been courting for 4 months (she had a boyfriend for the vast majority of it so I was effective just a friend but it all worked out good)

Sense of humour is probably the most important thing in my opinion, and being able to listen and maintain eye contact.

 

[TheDoctorsCompanion.]

Best way is seriously through trial and error.

Just don't be shy and talk to lots of girls.

THIS.
As a girl, these don't exactly work for everyone. I saw somewhere while skimming through it "don't act emotional or obsessed." Some girls like that! Personally, I do. When my boyfriend does, I absolutely love it. But I had an ex that did the exact same thing and it made me want to punch him in the throat, so I dumped him.
But the first part was right, just be yourself. If you do that and it doesn't work, move on. Not everyone is going to like you If you keep doing that without giving up hope, you'll eventually find someone who sincerely likes you for you.
Happy girl hunting, my fellow escapists.

 

[Retosa]

First of all, I generally lurk around these forums, and read random topics... However, this whole thread has entertained me immensely in multiple ways, and actually made me want to make an account to post! Hello Escapists!

Welcome, Retosa!
Please post more; people who put genuine effort into their contributions are the best thing any forum can ask for. Also, try stopping by the Escapist IRC channel or check out the 'Scapist usergroups under the "community" tab. here are plenty of interesting subgroups, there's likely a collection of people to suit your taste.

Thanks for the welcome, I will likely check that out in the near future. However for now, I must be off to pick up some food. Thanks again.

Edit: Improper quote code, fixed.

 

[Simriel]

3. Don't date while unemployed, and don't expect that she'll throw a blind eye to it. It's not that women want money, they just want a guy that can support himself. Not a guy who works at McDonald or the local movie theatre, but a guy who has a good-paying job - even if it's behind a cubical. Besides, you could spend more time getting a job or working to get one than obsessing over the one you love*. One thing that pisses off a woman more than anything is a leech, especially if you're also scum, lazy, and you can't hold a conversation without blurting off about her tits or your dick. (*Exception if you are trying for that degree in college, since you're already actively working to get that good job.)




edit - random grammatical edits to make my third point clearer.

So what you are saying is don't try to find love or have a relationship unless you are successful and middle to upper middle class. *Clears throat* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
In terms of real life advice I rank that up there with 'Duck and Cover' and 'Smoking improves the sound of a mans voice'

He said unemployed. Not minimum wage or below. Melodramatic much? He was right; girls want a guy who can be independent in and of themselves. None of this living at home with mom while you mooch off of her retirement or the like. Get off your lazy ass and get a job. Scrub. Any girl who dates a guy who is too lazy to motivate himself towards employment is a girl dating beneath herself. Same for guys; don't date a girl who can't take care of herself. That's pathetic.

'It's not that women want money, they just want a guy that can support himself. Not a guy who works at McDonald or the local movie theatre, but a guy who has a good-paying job' Guess you didn't see that bit?

 

[maximilian]

THIS.
As a girl, these don't exactly work for everyone. I saw somewhere while skimming through it "don't act emotional or obsessed." Some girls like that! Personally, I do. When my boyfriend does, I absolutely love it. But I had an ex that did the exact same thing and it made me want to punch him in the throat, so I dumped him.

I don't mean to be a nitpicker, but I need to point out one quick thing.
Would you have liked a guy BEFORE he was your boyfriend if he was constantly emotional and obsessed?
Because as I said at the end of the OP (albeit not clearly!) is that the "rules of engagement" change when actually in a relationship.
Like, I tell my girlfriend how special she is to me, and do my best to share my emotions, but I wouldn't have done that PRIOR to being her BF.

I think the thing is a lot of guys read what a girl wants in a boy friend, and then act out or demonstrate those qualities before actually being her BF.

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

3. Don't date while unemployed, and don't expect that she'll throw a blind eye to it. It's not that women want money, they just want a guy that can support himself. Not a guy who works at McDonald or the local movie theatre, but a guy who has a good-paying job - even if it's behind a cubical. Besides, you could spend more time getting a job or working to get one than obsessing over the one you love*. One thing that pisses off a woman more than anything is a leech, especially if you're also scum, lazy, and you can't hold a conversation without blurting off about her tits or your dick. (*Exception if you are trying for that degree in college, since you're already actively working to get that good job.)




edit - random grammatical edits to make my third point clearer.

So what you are saying is don't try to find love or have a relationship unless you are successful and middle to upper middle class. *Clears throat* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
In terms of real life advice I rank that up there with 'Duck and Cover' and 'Smoking improves the sound of a mans voice'

He said unemployed. Not minimum wage or below. Melodramatic much? He was right; girls want a guy who can be independent in and of themselves. None of this living at home with mom while you mooch off of her retirement or the like. Get off your lazy ass and get a job. Scrub. Any girl who dates a guy who is too lazy to motivate himself towards employment is a girl dating beneath herself. Same for guys; don't date a girl who can't take care of herself. That's pathetic.

'It's not that women want money, they just want a guy that can support himself. Not a guy who works at McDonald or the local movie theatre, but a guy who has a good-paying job' Guess you didn't see that bit?

Actually I did see that bit. It might not be as glamorous, but a man (or woman) can live off of an income from working at McDonalds. Is it what we all grow up or aspire to be? No. But its money. Especially if you're using it as a source of income while pursuing a more lucrative sum of money. I suppose you're thinking of a more high maintenance woman who wants a man to shower her with jewels and fancy french restaurants... surprise! Some of us actually don't mind chowing down on the dollar menu or (GADS) Olive Garden rather than an overpriced (and usually under-performing) locale.

 

[Aptspire]

...I'll try this stuff out OP. thank you

Girl's comment: Just be yourself. Don't change for a girl. If you're an arrogant asshole, and find that you can't get a gf, then you change for YOU... unless you enjoy being an arrogant asshole.. with an extremely strong right/left hand.

OP's advice was great, honestly, at the core. Because it says to just be you. Some women like fakes and posers, and hell you might luck out and find a chick who digs a slave boy. But by and large we just want a good friend who we can also screw and cuddle... and beat the shit out of in video games .

that...was awesome

 

[Dyp100]

Mmmkay, I think most people know this.

Does this really belong here? No matter how many threads pop up, the Escapist is not a dating site.

god damn it... *erases name from list*

Excuse me?

 

[maximilian]

So, I guess the lesson learned here is to just be really friendly and be relaxed around her. It also seems to help that I grew facial hair, got a job, and am generally not an asshole. She has mentioned liking the beard and nice personality, and seems to enjoy the fact that I have some money to spend on her.

...that's the optimistic advice though. The somewhat less optimistic advice learned from this is difficult because it sounds counter-intuitive: The best hope to get out of the friend zone is to stop trying to get out of the friend zone. Just stay good friends and hope for the best.

If I may contribute something largely out of ignorance, I would say that this situation is a great one to be in, but something that is largely uncommon, or happens by chance. I could stipulate that your friendship had evolved into a real friendship (not the "friendship" that is by and large the rejection of romance on the basis that you're "just friends") and then into a very natural romance. While this is fantastic, I also think that the advice above is generally helpful for guys around that special girl they're attracted to. I'd also say that the advice above actually requires some work and bravery, whereas this is essentially to do the same thing.

Don't get me wrong, I respect your relationship, but I disagree with your opinion (or the exclusivity of the option). I know that being in the nice guy territory for so long is a pain that I preferred not to bear, and I'm hoping to provide some relief from that.

BED TIME: I'll come reply in the morn! A good night/day to all!