How would gay marriage affect your life?

[101flyboy]

Can I ask what the point of posting in this topic is if you're just going to say the exact same thing as everyone else? Just look at all the answers on the first page. Good grief. You'd think that one guy had ten accounts or something.

Might as well drop the controversy bomb here and make a different post:
You ask what gay marriage being legalized would do to affect my life.
Can I ask what eliminating the drinking age would do to affect your life if you were over 21?
Can I ask what eliminating all the drug bans would do if you don't take any of them?
Can I ask what legalizing abuse of females would do if you're a male?
Can I ask what abolishing the speed limit would do if you had no license, or walked/biked/etc. to work instead?
Can I ask what making meat illegal would do if you were already a vegetarian?
Can I ask what legalizing pedophilia and child abuse would do to you if you were an adult?

If you say "nothing" to all of the above but STILL found the concepts more than objectionable, you now know that just because homosexuality does NOT affect heterosexuals, does not mean they cannot find it against their own ethics/morals/opinions/whatever.

I agree with your post 100% sir.

I disagree. All the things listed are damaging people who don't choose to be involved. Gays aren't forcing me to attend their weddings and their weddings do not negatively impact on my life in the same way as drunks, druggies, rapists, car accidents and paedophiles.

The only similar one is the meat one and that is in fact arguing for gay marriage rather than against.

If you aren't around drunks, druggies, rapists, or pedophiles then would it? Regardless your ethics and morals still are affected, You can disagree all you want and I'll agree all I want. I have friends that are homosexual and I agree they should have equal rights however that doesn't mean that I'm completely comfortable around them or comfortable watching say two guys or two women kissing or holding hands. It bothers me to my very core. I still support my friends decision because they are my friends and I respect them however I don't have to like the lifestyle. I have friends that smoke and do drugs and I support them for their decisions because it is their decision. This is no different. Its the way that my morals are, the way that my mind works and the way that I am. If I'm to be discriminated against for the way I am which isn't harming anyone then why can't a homosexual couple discriminated against for the very same reason.

Because your "morals" are harming others by condemning individuals for who they are, and your "discomfort" around gay people is ridiculous. If you have discomfort around a human being simply for who that human being is, you are irrational in your way of thinking. What anti-gays like you fail to grasp is, not all positions are equally valid. Just like the KKK v human rights groups. Well, the same thing applies here. You basically are saying you believe what you believe, just because you believe it. I disagree with homosexuality, because it makes me feel icky. That is illogical, and, once again, irrational in it's core. Comparing something harmful like smoking to homosexuality, which in no way is harmful in any way, is illogical. You have absolutely no principals or justification. Sexual orientation is not a lifestyle, it's a sexual attraction, and unless you can come up with a PRINCIPLED reason as to why you are "against the lifestyle", then that shows us all you don't have any reason whatsoever. Using talking points like my morals say ___________ is simply empty rhetoric. If you have gay friends, you either support them for who they are, or you don't, and you don't. No-one is discriminating against you. You CHOOSE to hold a view point that more and more people recognize is bigoted. Well, there are consequences for that. Same-sex couples are legal couples protected by the constitution from discrimination, and they are not actually believing or doing things actively against others, like you are. So, please, stop playing the victim card, you aren't one. You made your bed. Now, you have to lay in it.

I follow a specific religion and even without that religion my morals and how I feel deem it as disgusting whether other people might deem it as attractive or not. If that is illogical then beauty is also illogical is it not? It's called the human condition. You know nothing about me. You want me to stop playing the victim card? I was molested as a child by homosexuals. I find what they do disgusting. I have friends that are homosexual and I accept that they are the way they are but that doesn't mean that I have to like what they do. I have friends that do cocaine and I accept them for what they do and who they are but I don't like what they do. It's not bigotry to simply say I don't like this but if you do then thats fine for you. Yes they should have equal rights. I agree that they should but under no circumstances should I have to shut up about something I don't enjoy just to make someone feel more comfortable about themselves. That is illogical. If you want to continue to spew empty rhetoric then go ahead. There are no consequences for someone simply voicing their opinion and if there are then by all means proceed with your threats sir because thats exactly what they are and I will not take them any more. Yes they are couples under law but that doesn't make them any more or any less free from discrimination than you or I.

Illogical is not having a principled reason for what you think, believe, etc. When you believe something but the dots don't connect. It has nothing to do with the human condition. Once again, you choose the bed you lay in now. I don't have to know you, you said enough. You gave your opinion openly, and, on a discussion board, you have to realize that not everyone will agree with your opinions, and when it comes to gay rights, as more people are realizing it's perfectly OK, that most people will not accept your viewpoints as reasonable. By accepting people for who they are, that means you ACCEPT THEM. I mean, duh. You either accept or you don't accept. You don't accept anything, you at the most tolerate. If you think something is wrong, that means you don't accept it as not wrong, use common sense please. What do "they" do? Are you gay? If not, how do you know what is disgusting and what isn't? What is disgusting? I mean, I could talk about how oral sex is EXTREMELY dirty in terms of bacteria, so, is that disgusting? I'm assuming you have had oral, of course. Mouth is the dirtiest part of the body, but I never hear people complaining about that.

So, let's get to the real factor of why you are anti-gay. It's because you were raped as a child. Which is tragic, and I am sorry for you. Still ABSOLUTELY no excuse for your actions now. I'm sorry for what you went through, and clearly are still going through, but you can't just pull that card out and beat me or any gay man over the head with it, and think that absolves you from responsibility of your actions and beliefs. That IS playing the victim card, and you are a victim, but you also aren't going to be allowed to just take advantage of that status. Gay men don't rape kids. People who rape kids are people with an attraction towards kids. That's called PEDOPHILIA. I've in fact talked to SEVERAL people just like you, who are anti-gay, because they were raped as kids. It's damage control. You can't allow that one terrible experience shape your entire view of an entire group of people. That IS illogical and irrational. Because it isn't a principled decision, it's an EMOTIONAL one. You can't say you don't enjoy homosexuality, since you aren't a homosexual, so you are simply making baseless judgments, on one specific thing that happened to you. That isn't logical, sorry. Unlike cocaine, homosexuality harms no-one. You can make all of the comparisons you want. Your entire mindset is inherently wrong in itself, so everything you say will be wrong accordingly. Yes, it is bigoted to think who someone is or what someone does is wrong because of a PERSONAL situation, when what that person is and does doesn't actually affect you or anyone else negatively. No religious book or unfortunate childhood stories change that.

No-one is telling you to shut-up. No-one is forcing you to believe anything. I certainly haven't threatened you. What did I say? Simple. Gay/lesbian people are protected under the constitution from discrimination. You have freedom of speech to say what you believe on this subject. But, you are not protected under freedom of speech laws when it comes to taking responsibility of said speech. Nothing I have said is empty rhetoric. You want paint all gay people with a wide brush because of your tragic experience, OK. And people will call you out and call you a bigot accordingly. If you don't like that, then don't hold positions more and more people see as bigoted. If you can't take the heat, get out the kitchen.

 

[101flyboy]

i don't agree with gay marrage, and i have several reason why it is wrong.
but i respect the choices of others because only they have the right to choose how they live.
anyone who tries to take away that right is no better then hittler.
but i do advise that people who choose to be gay should fully consider his or her actions.
they might be able to find what they are looking for while still being strait.
so i recomend that the strait should try to understand the reasons a person chooses to be gay, but only if you are concerned for that person.

do not fight them, EDUCATE them.
make sure that they know what they are getting themselves into and why they want to.

You're talking about education of gay people when you're saying it's a choice? Learn some fucking science. You're born with your sexuality, whether mostly straight, mostly gay, or a little bit of both. When did you choose to be straight?

By being gay I'm not "getting myself into anything." It's not dangerous unless you count the unwarranted discrimination.

i'm saying you have the choice but you should be sure that you are making the right choice.
people will find any excuse to do what they think is "right".
i don't care if you are strait or gay, and i never said it was dangerous.
but you should not do somehing unless you know all the facts.
and as for science: two humans males cannot reproduce together, nor can two females. therefore, how is it logical to for two people of the same gender to be "more then friends"?

You have zero reasons why same-sex marriage is wrong. You have nothing. Let's look at the Prop 8 debate. Why is the pro-Prop 8 crowd being destroyed in the courts? It's because there are ZERO logical reasons to be anti-gay whatsoever.

Procreation? Really? Interesting. Did you know babies aren't even a top 10 reason why people have sex? Homosexuality is rampant in nature, why is that? I mean, does Mother Nature make mistakes? I don't think so.

No-one is making excuses, or needing justification, for an absolute non-issue. Sexual orientation isn't a choice. It isn't a negative. It's not how one defines their life. Being gay is not an action, it's a sexual attraction, and guess what, what "they" are looking for and getting themselves into is a same-sex mate and relationships, because they are NOT STRAIGHT. No-one becomes straight or leaves heterosexuality. Gay people are gay. And that's the facts. The only person here clearly needing to be educated is you, Jack.

you are right i don't know how gays think, and i'm very sure that very few of you even think the same way at all. everyone is different, and the only people that can teach the straite about how gays think are the gays. so why don't you try and teach people how you think instead of just yelling at anyone that shows even the slightest feelings against gays. when you yell at people they tend to not listen.
and i've already sad this twice now "i do not care if you are strait or gay"
in fact in my first post i even stated that anyone who tries to force gays from being themselves is worse the Hitler. this is because the only person that can make decisions in someones life is the person that owns that life.
i own myself and no others, i am not in charge of any others, therefore i am not allowed to decide for others.
i said that in my first post, but instead you take it as the most offencive thing ever written. i'll admit, my communication skills are not something to envy and i could have worded my first post better, so i'm sorry that my efforts to translate my thoughts into words failed.
i don't agree with being gay, but that only applies to ME, not anyone else.
i have my reasons, you have yours.

and PLEASE read this VERY CAREFULLY

First of all, I'm not gay. Secondly, anyone who holds a position that is "against gays" is fundamentally ridiculous. I'm not shouting at you at all, simply telling you how it is, and how a growing percentage of people think about people like you. It's that simple. I'm not going to sugar coat what I think of you because you get your feelings hurt. Not all view points are valid. Some view points are wrong, because they are harmful, illogical, anti-social etc. That includes anti-gay views.

The "gays" think the same things the straights think, except for the fact they are gay, which shapes some of their world views a bit differently. Outside of that, they live the same lives. So, it's a wonder, what do you disagree with? How does one disagree with something when they aren't even offered to give an opinion on it? No gay man asked you to agree with his sexuality. And if you aren't gay, it's not anything of any affect to you. So, why are you not agreeing with such an irrelevant thing, and something that really holds no value to you? That's where the problem lies with anti-gay individuals. You really can't answer WHY you disagree with something that, at the end of the day, is not a questionnaire, but simply something that is a way of life.

Yeah, you say you support the freedom of gay people being gay, but the truth is, you DO NOT. If you did, you wouldn't be against their equality under the law, and you are. So, you truly are against their personal freedoms. If you didn't care about gay people being gay, you wouldn't be against their being gay, and you are. I'm not offended, but it's good that you see you do need to communicate your POV a bit better. With that said, you're POV is still illogical in every way, unless you can come up with PRINCIPLED reasons as to why you are anti-gay. Because what I'm seeing is you contradicting yourself consistently, and basically saying I'm anti-gay because I am, which isn't a reason.

 

[jack583]

i don't agree with gay marrage, and i have several reason why it is wrong.
but i respect the choices of others because only they have the right to choose how they live.
anyone who tries to take away that right is no better then hittler.
but i do advise that people who choose to be gay should fully consider his or her actions.
they might be able to find what they are looking for while still being strait.
so i recomend that the strait should try to understand the reasons a person chooses to be gay, but only if you are concerned for that person.

do not fight them, EDUCATE them.
make sure that they know what they are getting themselves into and why they want to.

You're talking about education of gay people when you're saying it's a choice? Learn some fucking science. You're born with your sexuality, whether mostly straight, mostly gay, or a little bit of both. When did you choose to be straight?

By being gay I'm not "getting myself into anything." It's not dangerous unless you count the unwarranted discrimination.

He indeed sounds like a troll. Who the hell would choose to be gay? I can understand coming to terms with it, but it seems like a really rocky path to take.

Christ, like it's the 1950s.

EDIT: LOL, I just realized that Jack583 is talking about gay people as if they were a gang.

in my first post i thought i clearly stated that i do not care if someone is gay or strait.
my communication abillities are not the best so i'm sorry i failed to translate my thoughts into the proper words.
and i would like to say that i even stated that anyone that forces gays to be strait would be worse then hitler. because that is a choice no one else can make but yourself. i do not care if someone is gay or strait.
i don't aggree with it, but that is not a decision i can make for someone other than myself.

 

[101flyboy]

No problems at all, as long as the law treats them the same. Not so much marriage as the kid thing. If two gay/lesbians have a kid then one is the biological mum/dad. The fact the other is not a biological parent means that when they leave that relationship they have no legal responsibility for that kid. Now i want that changed. I personally dont think they should have kids because the life they have means that they cant not produce kids with their partner. But if the law says they can, then they both have to be responsible for the kids upbringing regardless if they are the biological parent or not.

"I personally don't think they should have kids because the life they have means they can't not produce kids with their partner."

I personally believe sterile couples should not have kids, because the life they have means they can't produce kids with their partner.

Atleast the straight have the parts to make a child.

How irrelevant is that! Hahahahaha. Can sterile couples have a kid? No. Do all heterosexual couples have children or have sex simply to create children? No. Do gay men and lesbian women have the parts to make children? Yes.

Try again.

 

[101flyboy]

No problems at all, as long as the law treats them the same. Not so much marriage as the kid thing. If two gay/lesbians have a kid then one is the biological mum/dad. The fact the other is not a biological parent means that when they leave that relationship they have no legal responsibility for that kid. Now i want that changed. I personally dont think they should have kids because the life they have means that they cant not produce kids with their partner. But if the law says they can, then they both have to be responsible for the kids upbringing regardless if they are the biological parent or not.

"I personally don't think they should have kids because the life they have means they can't not produce kids with their partner."

I personally believe sterile couples should not have kids, because the life they have means they can't produce kids with their partner.

Atleast the straight have the parts to make a child.

Gay people do too. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah cos two men can make a kid. Did you ever do biology in school? I am not against gay/lesbian relationships or marriage just that biology shows that there are certain things you can not do. That is two men/woman can not have a kid. An not saying they can not adopt, just that the reality is they can not have a kid.

Yes, you did say they should not adopt. You said because they can't have kids naturally, they shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Now tell me, what is the logic behind that statement? Do tell. What makes that statement an educated and principled one? Sterile couples can't have kids naturally either, so by your own words, they should not be allowed to adopt a child. Lastly, your words were do gay people not have the parts to make a child. That is false. They can have children, they are not sterile, and many gay men and lesbian women have kids in many ways. Your argument fails.

 

[101flyboy]

i don't agree with gay marrage, and i have several reason why it is wrong.
but i respect the choices of others because only they have the right to choose how they live.
anyone who tries to take away that right is no better then hittler.
but i do advise that people who choose to be gay should fully consider his or her actions.
they might be able to find what they are looking for while still being strait.
so i recomend that the strait should try to understand the reasons a person chooses to be gay, but only if you are concerned for that person.

do not fight them, EDUCATE them.
make sure that they know what they are getting themselves into and why they want to.

You're talking about education of gay people when you're saying it's a choice? Learn some fucking science. You're born with your sexuality, whether mostly straight, mostly gay, or a little bit of both. When did you choose to be straight?

By being gay I'm not "getting myself into anything." It's not dangerous unless you count the unwarranted discrimination.

He indeed sounds like a troll. Who the hell would choose to be gay? I can understand coming to terms with it, but it seems like a really rocky path to take.

Christ, like it's the 1950s.

EDIT: LOL, I just realized that Jack583 is talking about gay people as if they were a gang.

in my first post i thought i clearly stated that i do not care if someone is gay or strait.
my communication abillities are not the best so i'm sorry i failed to translate my thoughts into the proper words.
and i would like to say that i even stated that anyone that forces gays to be strait would be worse then hitler. because that is a choice no one else can make but yourself. i do not care if someone is gay or strait.
i don't aggree with it, but that is not a decision i can make for someone other than myself.

If you don't care whether people are gay or straight, you wouldn't be against people being gay. You would simply not care. But, you do care, and are trying to do the run around, I guess because of poor communication, but I think it's also because you want to deflect negative attention from yourself.

 

[CleverCover]

It wouldn't. I'm straight.

This just means that maybe I can finally stop hearing to people try to justify their ridiculous notions about how gay people are evil.

 

[Uzbekistan]

It would help me. I mean, I am bisexual, and I have a very good girlfriend. I would like to marry who I want to mary without fear.

 

[101flyboy]

No problems at all, as long as the law treats them the same. Not so much marriage as the kid thing. If two gay/lesbians have a kid then one is the biological mum/dad. The fact the other is not a biological parent means that when they leave that relationship they have no legal responsibility for that kid. Now i want that changed. I personally dont think they should have kids because the life they have means that they cant not produce kids with their partner. But if the law says they can, then they both have to be responsible for the kids upbringing regardless if they are the biological parent or not.

"I personally don't think they should have kids because the life they have means they can't not produce kids with their partner."

I personally believe sterile couples should not have kids, because the life they have means they can't produce kids with their partner.

Atleast the straight have the parts to make a child.

How irrelevant is that! Hahahahaha. Can sterile couples have a kid? No. Do all heterosexual couples have children or have sex simply to create children? No. Do gay men and lesbian women have the parts to make children? Yes.

Try again.

you forget, a gay relationship is two men with working parts. So can two men with working parts make a kid? It is basic biology. A gay man and a female lesbien can have a kid but that is unlikely.

You said "gay people can't have children". That is incorrect. You are now twisting it in another direction to save face, and are blatantly hypocritical in your condemnations of the direction you are trying to twist this discussion. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Try to find other ways to justify your anti-gay attitude.

 

[jack583]

i don't agree with gay marrage, and i have several reason why it is wrong.
but i respect the choices of others because only they have the right to choose how they live.
anyone who tries to take away that right is no better then hittler.
but i do advise that people who choose to be gay should fully consider his or her actions.
they might be able to find what they are looking for while still being strait.
so i recomend that the strait should try to understand the reasons a person chooses to be gay, but only if you are concerned for that person.

do not fight them, EDUCATE them.
make sure that they know what they are getting themselves into and why they want to.

You're talking about education of gay people when you're saying it's a choice? Learn some fucking science. You're born with your sexuality, whether mostly straight, mostly gay, or a little bit of both. When did you choose to be straight?

By being gay I'm not "getting myself into anything." It's not dangerous unless you count the unwarranted discrimination.

i'm saying you have the choice but you should be sure that you are making the right choice.
people will find any excuse to do what they think is "right".
i don't care if you are strait or gay, and i never said it was dangerous.
but you should not do somehing unless you know all the facts.
and as for science: two humans males cannot reproduce together, nor can two females. therefore, how is it logical to for two people of the same gender to be "more then friends"?

You have zero reasons why same-sex marriage is wrong. You have nothing. Let's look at the Prop 8 debate. Why is the pro-Prop 8 crowd being destroyed in the courts? It's because there are ZERO logical reasons to be anti-gay whatsoever.

Procreation? Really? Interesting. Did you know babies aren't even a top 10 reason why people have sex? Homosexuality is rampant in nature, why is that? I mean, does Mother Nature make mistakes? I don't think so.

No-one is making excuses, or needing justification, for an absolute non-issue. Sexual orientation isn't a choice. It isn't a negative. It's not how one defines their life. Being gay is not an action, it's a sexual attraction, and guess what, what "they" are looking for and getting themselves into is a same-sex mate and relationships, because they are NOT STRAIGHT. No-one becomes straight or leaves heterosexuality. Gay people are gay. And that's the facts. The only person here clearly needing to be educated is you, Jack.

you are right i don't know how gays think, and i'm very sure that very few of you even think the same way at all. everyone is different, and the only people that can teach the straite about how gays think are the gays. so why don't you try and teach people how you think instead of just yelling at anyone that shows even the slightest feelings against gays. when you yell at people they tend to not listen.
and i've already sad this twice now "i do not care if you are strait or gay"
in fact in my first post i even stated that anyone who tries to force gays from being themselves is worse the Hitler. this is because the only person that can make decisions in someones life is the person that owns that life.
i own myself and no others, i am not in charge of any others, therefore i am not allowed to decide for others.
i said that in my first post, but instead you take it as the most offencive thing ever written. i'll admit, my communication skills are not something to envy and i could have worded my first post better, so i'm sorry that my efforts to translate my thoughts into words failed.
i don't agree with being gay, but that only applies to ME, not anyone else.
i have my reasons, you have yours.

and PLEASE read this VERY CAREFULLY

First of all, I'm not gay. Secondly, anyone who holds a position that is "against gays" is fundamentally ridiculous. I'm not shouting at you at all, simply telling you how it is, and how a growing percentage of people think about people like you. It's that simple. I'm not going to sugar coat what I think of you because you get your feelings hurt. Not all view points are valid. Some view points are wrong, because they are harmful, illogical, anti-social etc. That includes anti-gay views.

The "gays" think the same things the straights think, except for the fact they are gay, which shapes some of their world views a bit differently. Outside of that, they live the same lives. So, it's a wonder, what do you disagree with? How does one disagree with something when they aren't even offered to give an opinion on it? No gay man asked you to agree with his sexuality. And if you aren't gay, it's not anything of any affect to you. So, why are you not agreeing with such an irrelevant thing, and something that really holds no value to you? That's where the problem lies with anti-gay individuals. You really can't answer WHY you disagree with something that, at the end of the day, is not a questionnaire, but simply something that is a way of life.

Yeah, you say you support the freedom of gay people being gay, but the truth is, you DO NOT. If you did, you wouldn't be against their equality under the law, and you are. So, you truly are against their personal freedoms. If you didn't care about gay people being gay, you wouldn't be against their being gay, and you are. I'm not offended, but it's good that you see you do need to communicate your POV a bit better. With that said, you're POV is still illogical in every way, unless you can come up with PRINCIPLED reasons as to why you are anti-gay. Because what I'm seeing is you contradicting yourself consistently, and basically saying I'm anti-gay because I am, which isn't a reason.

this is getting tiresome...
look i know people who are gay, in fact i have family members that are gay. i know that doesn't change much but i am just going to say that i really DO NOT CARE. i'm not going to fight FOR gay rights and i'm not going to fight AGAINST gay rights. if it ever comes to the point when it is a topic i need to vote on i will simply pass over it, i will not check yes or no. i was thaught all my life to respect the thoughts and choices of others.
others being gay does not affect me therefore i do not see why i should care about it. no one is getting hurt so i say nothing.

the only reason i posted here was because i thought the person who made this forum was agaisnt gays, so i wanted to try and correct that person's way of thinking so as not to create needless arguemens.
i don't care if people are gay or not as long as they don't fight over it.
what i was trying to do ws get the person to look at the matter differently in order to cause less fighting. but i guess i must have misread the orriginal post, but too late! oh well! can't fix or remove my first post now.
i rarely ever take actual sides, i only try to help reduce the collective hatered coming from both sides.

 

[101flyboy]

The people worried about the financial aspect of same sex marriage being legalized, the truth is, it will help the economy. That's just another ADVANTAGE as to why same-sex couples require marriage, as it will help society in several ways, while the denial of it hurts society as a whole.

 

[testicular torsion]

the argument is not specific to the way it would change an individuals life. I don't care what gays do (do what makes you happy, I say), but the attack is on religion, not individuals. changing the definition of marriage from a biblical stand point would affect a lot of people. they would basically have to say, "everything I believe in and have stacked my life on, is wrong!" Because if there is one aspect of the book that is wrong, then they all could be. The people who don't believe that strong in a religion have a hard time seeing this perspective.

what this question seems to be ignoring, is that the word "marriage," is not simply demanding a right. gays can get the same rights in legal partnerships, they have been in California for years (i don't know about other states, but i know a lot of them have rights available). the argument is for the word marriage, not the legal benefits found in one. and that in turn is challenging religion.


so your question is pointless.

 

[superbatranger]

It wouldn't affect me at all. But, it would make my older stepbrother happy if he ever decides he wants to get married.

 

[Stevanchez]

I won't have to guess if the two white guys shopping for groceries together with their Asain baby are gay or not?

(shhhhhh: I'm pretty sure they are.)

 

[101flyboy]

i don't agree with gay marrage, and i have several reason why it is wrong.
but i respect the choices of others because only they have the right to choose how they live.
anyone who tries to take away that right is no better then hittler.
but i do advise that people who choose to be gay should fully consider his or her actions.
they might be able to find what they are looking for while still being strait.
so i recomend that the strait should try to understand the reasons a person chooses to be gay, but only if you are concerned for that person.

do not fight them, EDUCATE them.
make sure that they know what they are getting themselves into and why they want to.

You're talking about education of gay people when you're saying it's a choice? Learn some fucking science. You're born with your sexuality, whether mostly straight, mostly gay, or a little bit of both. When did you choose to be straight?

By being gay I'm not "getting myself into anything." It's not dangerous unless you count the unwarranted discrimination.

i'm saying you have the choice but you should be sure that you are making the right choice.
people will find any excuse to do what they think is "right".
i don't care if you are strait or gay, and i never said it was dangerous.
but you should not do somehing unless you know all the facts.
and as for science: two humans males cannot reproduce together, nor can two females. therefore, how is it logical to for two people of the same gender to be "more then friends"?

You have zero reasons why same-sex marriage is wrong. You have nothing. Let's look at the Prop 8 debate. Why is the pro-Prop 8 crowd being destroyed in the courts? It's because there are ZERO logical reasons to be anti-gay whatsoever.

Procreation? Really? Interesting. Did you know babies aren't even a top 10 reason why people have sex? Homosexuality is rampant in nature, why is that? I mean, does Mother Nature make mistakes? I don't think so.

No-one is making excuses, or needing justification, for an absolute non-issue. Sexual orientation isn't a choice. It isn't a negative. It's not how one defines their life. Being gay is not an action, it's a sexual attraction, and guess what, what "they" are looking for and getting themselves into is a same-sex mate and relationships, because they are NOT STRAIGHT. No-one becomes straight or leaves heterosexuality. Gay people are gay. And that's the facts. The only person here clearly needing to be educated is you, Jack.

you are right i don't know how gays think, and i'm very sure that very few of you even think the same way at all. everyone is different, and the only people that can teach the straite about how gays think are the gays. so why don't you try and teach people how you think instead of just yelling at anyone that shows even the slightest feelings against gays. when you yell at people they tend to not listen.
and i've already sad this twice now "i do not care if you are strait or gay"
in fact in my first post i even stated that anyone who tries to force gays from being themselves is worse the Hitler. this is because the only person that can make decisions in someones life is the person that owns that life.
i own myself and no others, i am not in charge of any others, therefore i am not allowed to decide for others.
i said that in my first post, but instead you take it as the most offencive thing ever written. i'll admit, my communication skills are not something to envy and i could have worded my first post better, so i'm sorry that my efforts to translate my thoughts into words failed.
i don't agree with being gay, but that only applies to ME, not anyone else.
i have my reasons, you have yours.

and PLEASE read this VERY CAREFULLY

First of all, I'm not gay. Secondly, anyone who holds a position that is "against gays" is fundamentally ridiculous. I'm not shouting at you at all, simply telling you how it is, and how a growing percentage of people think about people like you. It's that simple. I'm not going to sugar coat what I think of you because you get your feelings hurt. Not all view points are valid. Some view points are wrong, because they are harmful, illogical, anti-social etc. That includes anti-gay views.

The "gays" think the same things the straights think, except for the fact they are gay, which shapes some of their world views a bit differently. Outside of that, they live the same lives. So, it's a wonder, what do you disagree with? How does one disagree with something when they aren't even offered to give an opinion on it? No gay man asked you to agree with his sexuality. And if you aren't gay, it's not anything of any affect to you. So, why are you not agreeing with such an irrelevant thing, and something that really holds no value to you? That's where the problem lies with anti-gay individuals. You really can't answer WHY you disagree with something that, at the end of the day, is not a questionnaire, but simply something that is a way of life.

Yeah, you say you support the freedom of gay people being gay, but the truth is, you DO NOT. If you did, you wouldn't be against their equality under the law, and you are. So, you truly are against their personal freedoms. If you didn't care about gay people being gay, you wouldn't be against their being gay, and you are. I'm not offended, but it's good that you see you do need to communicate your POV a bit better. With that said, you're POV is still illogical in every way, unless you can come up with PRINCIPLED reasons as to why you are anti-gay. Because what I'm seeing is you contradicting yourself consistently, and basically saying I'm anti-gay because I am, which isn't a reason.

this is getting tiresome...
look i know people who are gay, in fact i have family members that are gay. i know that doesn't change much but i am just going to say that i really DO NOT CARE. i'm not going to fight FOR gay rights and i'm not going to fight AGAINST gay rights. if it ever comes to the point when it is a topic i need to vote on i will simply pass over it, i will not check yes or no. i was thaught all my life to respect the thoughts and choices of others.
others being gay does not affect me therefore i do not see why i should care about it. no one is getting hurt so i say nothing.

the only reason i posted here was because i thought the person who made this forum was agaisnt gays, so i wanted to try and correct that person's way of thinking so as not to create needless arguemens.
i don't care if people are gay or not as long as they don't fight over it.
what i was trying to do ws get the person to look at the matter differently in order to cause less fighting. but i guess i must have misread the orriginal post, but too late! oh well! can't fix or remove my first post now.
i rarely ever take actual sides, i only try to help reduce the collective hatered coming from both sides.

OK, but you didn't answer my one main question. How does one agree with a sexual orientation that isn't their own or involve them directly? How do you agree to a sexual orientation for someone else? What does that actually mean? How do you disagree with being gay, if you aren't gay? If you say you don't care about gay people being gay, why did you say you disagree with "gayness"? You either care or you don't care.

OK, you clarified your positions nicely. You do seem genuinely respectful. It's good that you are against the hatred and fighting between individuals for this reason, or any other. It's just that what you have been saying is very convoluted. You say one thing, and then another thing. A mature person can discuss views without any hostility towards the other individual in the discussion, so for that, I respect you.