Humans in rpgs

[number4096]

I wonder which would be more versatile between two knives,two short swords,a long sword or a buckler and a short sword?

I agree that a short sword would be more versatile than a polearm but a longsword would take too much space to carry,draw or swing to be as versatile as a short sword.

Any toughts?

 

[number4096]

I once theorised with someone that if a spearman was facing an opponent with many arms(Let's say,goro from mortal kombat.)and that the multiple armed opponent would have a sword in each hands,the mutiple armed opponent would try to attack from every directions at once with all the swords so as to prevent any defensive maneuvers from working,and the spearman in retaliation would spin its spear once in front of itself at the moment of the attack,deviating all swords at the same time in the process and then would take advantage of the fact that the multiple armed opponent would be destabilised by such a move to pierce the multiple armed opponent,killing it in the process.

Your toughts?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I once theorised with someone that if a spearman was facing an opponent with many arms(Let's say,goro from mortal kombat.)and that the multiple armed opponent would have a sword in each hands,the mutiple armed opponent would try to attack from every directions at once with all the swords so as to prevent any defensive maneuvers from working,and the spearman in retaliation would spin its spear once in front of itself at the moment of the attack,deviating all swords at the same time in the process and then would take advantage of the fact that the multiple armed opponent would be destabilised by such a move to pierce the multiple armed opponent,killing it in the process.

Your toughts?

Heh, amazing.

So trying to get you right, there are four swords coming at you from four angle so you twirl a pole around in and deflect them all like a bicycle wheel with one spoke stopping four sticks being poked at it? Mechanically, I suppose that the pole could deflect two of the blades and then the four armed swordsman would either strike with the other two blades or be stunned by the force of the impact on the other two blades and miss. I suppose that this would depend on the forces involved, attacking style and strength of the swordsman.

Depending on the biology of the theoretical four armed assailant, there could be a torsional strain applied to his body by the defence that could tear a limb from his body. Worth thinking about if anybody ever offers you an extra two arms and four swords.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

See this is why I like JRPGs
They are never humans.
In Square Enix games they have been Humes but never humans giving them the ability to be different.
In Fire Emblem 9 and 10, it's an insult to be called human, the races are Beorc and Laguz, the Beorc being assholes call the Laguz sub-human and so to Laguz, being human is an insult.
Play as an elf in DA and you can use the word human as an insult .
In Tales of Symphonia, you have the typical Dwarf, Elf, Human fare, the humans can't do anything without exspheres to power up their abilities and elves and dwarves can.

It's only Tolkien fantasies these things happen and even in Middle Earth, I'm sure humans can't use magic.
That's only in games so that your human character can be a mage, and that still (bearing in mind I'm a console gamer) the only WRPGs that a 'human' can be a mage are Bioware ones. Humans don't exist in Oblivion and magic doesn't exist in Fallout, Mass Effect has people who get injections to use magic and in Dragon Age only certain humans are born with magic.

 

[number4096]

Another reason i like polearms is that they seem more useful against big creatures than swords.

For example,cavemens had very primitive and unrefined spears and yet could kill any animals of their time with them(short-faced bears,smilodons,cave lions,mammoths an even whales,shadow of the colossus style,ask inuits.).

later on,even infantrymen could take out cavalry if they had spears and spears had a better range against any other weapons in melee fights(Though a short sword is better for someone who has to climb,crawl and swim across areas and is easier to draw out.).

If someone had to fight a dragon or other huge creatures,a sword would just seem obsolete in comparison to a spear.If a bear faced you in battle and all you had was a sword,you would beaten to death very fast while with a spear,you could still stand a chance,so imagine against something like a dragon,it would be better to just use a polearm.

Your toughts?

 

[number4096]

Since everyone told me cracked.com was unreliable,could anyone tell me which parts of this article have falsified informations?

http://www.cracked.com/article/197_the-7-most-badass-last-stands-in-history-battle/

It talks about human history and some of the warriors that fought in it but i wonder if any of it is accurate.

 

[snow]

Also, the Mongolian raiders who sakced Europe beg to disagree on what is an isn't an effective sword.

The sword that did it:

An excellent weapon when you are riding horseback and striking against an enemy on foot. A curved blade utilizes the momentum of the horse to increase the depth of the cut and the strongly twisted end ensures that the sword slides out of the enemy easier than a flat blade, minimising the change of getting involuntarily disarmed by the weapon jamming within enemy armor/body from said powerful slash.

Every weapon is a compromise between cost to make, difficulty to learn and master, reach of weapon, stabbing power, cutting power and weight. In some cases, reach is a good thing (see Rapier, Zweihander), in others it is not. Two-handed swords are excellent in taking down armored opponents and far more useful against cavalry targats than a short sword. The design philosohpy behind the Japanese blades all the way from the humble Tanto to the mighty O-Dachi

Spoiler

is different from European counterparts. The 'mighty' katana would have been almost useless against a medieval european full-plate which was designed to protect from cutting attacks and stabs by thin swords.

Which explain why Morning Stars of various kinds were so damn effective at killing armored targets: hit somewhere near a weak point and you get a puncture. Hit in a joint and twist and the leather straps holding the armor come off. Hit the side of a shield and you gain excellent leverage to twist it out of the way or break the arm of the wielder.

Each good weapon is made for one primary purpose. The inherent effectivness of the weapon depends on the equipment it is facing as much as it depends on the skill and other equipment used by the wielder.

Wow you really seem to know your stuff, do you happen to take any classes on weaponry? I've always found studying the proper use of weapons set in medieval times to be a fascinating learning experience.

As for the thread... I don't believe I have anything that was already said... Certain weapons were better against certain situations and would be a major drawback if just less affective in others...

The fact that swords are depicted as the weapons the end all melee weapons is because they are the most noble looking... When we think of heroes in medieval video games, we think of an armored knight wielding a shield and sword.

That simple concept has been the focal point in the developers depiction of what the protagonist should be because it's fairly simple to relate too, as with elvish archers and dwarvish brute strength.

If anything, this brings me back to what I've said several times already, developers tend to fall back to their safety nets when it comes to making games, especially in this current day where their main focus is simply to make the next game to-rule-them-all.

[small] See what I did there? :3 [/small]

 

[Axolotl]

It's only Tolkien fantasies these things happen and even in Middle Earth, I'm sure humans can't use magic.

There's a hell of a lot more to fantasy literature than just Tolkein and in the vast majority of them humans can use magic. To name so authors as examples Vance, Moorcock, Pratchett, Leiber and that's just the ones I can remember of the top of my head.

That's only in games so that your human character can be a mage, and that still (bearing in mind I'm a console gamer) the only WRPGs that a 'human' can be a mage are Bioware ones.

I could make a massive list but I think just one example will be enough:

 

[More Fun To Compute]

If someone had to fight a dragon or other huge creatures,a sword would just seem obsolete in comparison to a spear.If a bear faced you in battle and all you had was a sword,you would beaten to death very fast while with a spear,you could still stand a chance,so imagine against something like a dragon,it would be better to just use a polearm.

Depends on what sort of dragon it is, I suppose. A small dragon that attacks by swooping down on you for momentum based attacks like a charging horse might be best stopped by a spear. I would expect to lose a spear on every attack as they break though. A large dragon that relies on bites and claw attacks might be able to quickly snap a spear but might be vulnerable to nimble hamstring like attack with a sword. A dragon that uses breath attacks might need to be dealt with by horse archers. Any self respecting dragon could do all three so I would rather have a jet fighter with heat seaking missiles than a polearm when facing a dragon.

 

[Zacharine]

Wow you really seem to know your stuff, do you happen to take any classes on weaponry? I've always found studying the proper use of weapons set in medieval times to be a fascinating learning experience.

Thanks you. I also think it fascinating. 'Ancient' weapons, their make and use are somewhat a hobby of mine, as is classical and medieval history of Europe. I have taken roughly 200 hours of training in basic medieval european broadsword styles. In my years of martial arts training, I've received the basics of knife-fighting and nunchucks and a somewhat surprisingly decent competency with the bo-staff/quarterstaff.

What can I say? On one hand I'm almost a pacifist (medic training from military contributed a lot) but on the other hand I can't help but admire the cunning brutality behind the evolution of weaponry.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

It's only Tolkien fantasies these things happen and even in Middle Earth, I'm sure humans can't use magic.

There's a hell of a lot more to fantasy literature than just Tolkein and in the vast majority of them humans can use magic. To name so authors as examples Vance, Moorcock, Pratchett, Leiber and that's just the ones I can remember of the top of my head.

That's only in games so that your human character can be a mage, and that still (bearing in mind I'm a console gamer) the only WRPGs that a 'human' can be a mage are Bioware ones.

I could make a massive list but I think just one example will be enough:

Most WRPGs are based in Tolkien settings, and I was more basing it on video games not DnD

 

[snow]

Wow you really seem to know your stuff, do you happen to take any classes on weaponry? I've always found studying the proper use of weapons set in medieval times to be a fascinating learning experience.

Thanks you. I also think it fascinating. 'Ancient' weapons, their make and use are somewhat a hobby of mine, as is classical and medieval history of Europe. I have taken roughly 200 hours of training in basic medieval european broadsword styles. In my years of martial arts training, I've received the basics of knife-fighting and nunchucks and a somewhat surprisingly decent competency with the bo-staff/quarterstaff.

What can I say? On one hand I'm almost a pacifist (medic training from military contributed a lot) but on the other hand I can't help but admire the cunning brutality behind the evolution of weaponry.

Wow man I really envy you. There's nothing available around there that I can openly partake in when it comes to training, besides martial arts of course, but nothing beyond what would be normally considered as aerobics training disguised as an art of combat. Sure it does good, but it's not the thing I'm looking for. The most I can get out of it is the stuff I read about online, but then again anything posted online could be questioned unless there's a posted source where the information is from... Then again most sites lack that as well.

One of these days I'm going to have to take a trip out of town and visit a book store. Last time I was there, I saw a lot of interesting books but alas I didn't have any extra cash on me.

 

[Axolotl]

Most WRPGs are based in Tolkien settings, and I was more basing it on video games not DnD

No, pretty much all RPGs trace their roots directly to DnD which is far more based on the authors I listed than tolkien.

 

[number4096]

Does anyone knows a reliable video that compares various arts of combat against one another?

Science du combat and Ultimate warrior are apparently unreliable(As well as cracked.com)so i wondered if anyone could show me something in the same style but reliable?

 

[Axolotl]

Does anyone knows a reliable video that compares various arts of combat against one another?

Science du combat and Ultimate warrior are apparently unreliable(As well as cracked.com)so i wondered if anyone could show me something in the same style but reliable?

I do0n't know about videos but there was a gigantic essay I once saw on Knight vs Samurai.

Here it is:http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm. Not exactly what you wanted but it's a start.

 

[Zacharine]

I wonder which would be more versatile between two knives,two short swords,a long sword or a buckler and a short sword?

Since we are not talking of morality any more...

Personally I would go for a single longsword.

Knives have a hideously short range. I would use one only if the choice was between fighting barehanded and a single knife. Pretty much any weapon beats a knife.

Short swords are beginning to work, but a man with a longsword would kjill a man armed with two short swords before he got close enough to strike. Assuming equal levels of training naturally. Dual-wielding is just such a difficult thing to learn and people with strong one-handed bias (the antithesis of ambidexterity) can never learn it well.

A shield and a short sword is beginning to look more of an equal duel for the longsword: at equal amount of training longwords simply dominates the rest. But in this case, it would come down to styles and stances, as well as the size of the shield. This is an engagement that either could win. If we are talking of a buckler in the truest sense of the word:

then longsword will take the day as it is trivial to bypass a defense that measly, as the sword defending is a short sword (as dictated) unlike in the picture where both have an equal sword.

A proper shield however:

Would be a far more interesting match. In the end it would boil down to this question: Can the man with the shield and the short sword protect himself from the first two strikes the longsword is going to land while getting close enough to strike back pass the guard of the longsword or bash him with the shield?

In this case, training, relative level of skill and style used (moreso with the longsword as shield combat is simpler) play an extremely heavy role.

 

[hermes]

That is because most RPGs are based in the alternative reality of Tolkien's middle age. In those books, humans are the most balanced (elves are usually fast and physically weak, dwarves are strong, brutes and tough, and gnomes are small and cunning), are the most diversified (with elves and dwarves focusing on range and melee combat almost exclusively), preffer swords over arrows (elves), daggers (gnomes) or blunt weapons (dwarves), and are also the race with the most moral ambiguity (with the other races being almost stereotypically good or evil)...

 

[number4096]

http://dnd.wikia.com/wiki/Human

My personal opinion aside,does anyone think this could summarise humans?If not,then what parts do you think they get wrong?

(Just for fun.)

 

[Zacharine]

Wow you really seem to know your stuff, do you happen to take any classes on weaponry? I've always found studying the proper use of weapons set in medieval times to be a fascinating learning experience.

Thanks you. I also think it fascinating. 'Ancient' weapons, their make and use are somewhat a hobby of mine, as is classical and medieval history of Europe. I have taken roughly 200 hours of training in basic medieval european broadsword styles. In my years of martial arts training, I've received the basics of knife-fighting and nunchucks and a somewhat surprisingly decent competency with the bo-staff/quarterstaff.

What can I say? On one hand I'm almost a pacifist (medic training from military contributed a lot) but on the other hand I can't help but admire the cunning brutality behind the evolution of weaponry.

Wow man I really envy you. There's nothing available around there that I can openly partake in when it comes to training, besides martial arts of course, but nothing beyond what would be normally considered as aerobics training disguised as an art of combat. Sure it does good, but it's not the thing I'm looking for. The most I can get out of it is the stuff I read about online, but then again anything posted online could be questioned unless there's a posted source where the information is from... Then again most sites lack that as well.

One of these days I'm going to have to take a trip out of town and visit a book store. Last time I was there, I saw a lot of interesting books but alas I didn't have any extra cash on me.

Martial arts really depends on the style. Some styles like Judo are restricted as they are competitive forms, while stuff closer to lines of Krav Maga is intended to incapacitate or kill an opponent as quickly as possible using every dirty trick in the book. What you learn during the courses depends heavily on style, some of which are unfortunately only glorified dance lessons.

 

[Axolotl]

http://dnd.wikia.com/wiki/Human

My personal opinion aside,does anyone think this could summarise humans?If not,then what parts do you think they get wrong?

(Just for fun.)

It's worth noting that the page is for DnD where humans are the ultimate species.

As for accuracy it's fine for a DnD setting.