I am curious...why should God "have to be provable"?

[Lunar Shadow]

?I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.?

My only problem with that list is the fact The Buddha is not a god....

 

[sramota]

It shouldn't, and that's mr. Dawkins whole point: DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME IF IT WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

There's a God? Right. And do I have to do anything? Oh believe in him? Why? Because if not I'll burn forever in eternal damnation? Right. And what did he ever do for me? Cause the death of a MINIMUM of 33 million people, only by accounts of a book over 2000 years old, so we're missing 2000 years of killings? Right. You know what, we're human, we're habitual creatures, if I'm tossed in a fire for ALL ETERNITY, you can bet your ass I'm going to adapt to it and be fine. So. Suck it God.

Whoa, there, matey, calm down. I'm sure that was a rhetorical question.

Oh I know it was rhetorical, I just enjoy a good outlash at things when they make sense.

 

[tenlong]

I'd like to see one of these whackjobs get the swineflu despite having taken the flu shot and then argue against evolving organisms....[/quote]

You are saying all those who believe in god are whack jobs.You also wish harm to them. You are just as bad as a bible thumper telling all atheists they are going to hell. If you believe there is no god,that is your right. I believe in god, that is my right. Why can't you agree to disagree. We all worship something. Whether that be god ,sports,video games,movies etc. There is something you can't live without and always want to have.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I believe in god. The day i believe in evolution is the day i see a building gather all the materials needed to build itself and then builds itself. That is next to impossible.That is like 900 quadrillion to 1.

bio organisms can develope and evolve on their own, they're alive .. concrete isn't .. i'm sorry man but that is by far one of the worst arguments i've heard

So you are saying a building can build itself? Get me a plane ticket i like to see it. On a side note how do explain paranormal events like ghost and demons etc. My family and i seen paranormal events that science can't explain. {No we don't do drugs or are insane.]

Evolution does not deal with the origins of life, evolution deals with the way life adapted to it's enviroment. From the most simplest of cells to the most complex organisms.

How do I explain paranormal events? That can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence aka provide evidence that those paranormal events happened and then I will believe you. But out of curiosity, what were those events that you exprienced? Now again out of curiosity, did that happen at night by any chance?

 

[sramota]

?I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.?

*snip of sanity*

My only problem with that list is the fact The Buddha is not a god....

You know, I was under that impression too...
Buuuut
http://www.thaiworldview.com/bouddha/ceremo15.htm
There's always someone ready to pray to the guy stating he's NOT the Lord/King.

 

[SsilverR]

**cut**

buildings aren't bio organisms .. so no, think of how babies grow, how people heal wounds .. that's minor examples of things building themselves

and paranormal activity is all placebo, there was a show about hauntings .. they sent 3 people in .. a critic, a normal guy and a ghost hunter dude .. the last 2 practically shat themselves and claimed they saw stuff but nothing showed on cam .. the critic went in alone to the same places and saw nothing .. it's in the mind, and the more ppl around you believe the more likely the group will encourage each other and see stuff .. just like the sugar pill and the orange juice

people were told the sugar pill was a pain killer and it cured headaches .. and people were told the orange juice had vodka in it (it didn't) and the people who drank it got drunk .. or thought they were

 

[Abedeus]

Because were not dedicating our lives to following an entity that might not exist. We're not wakig up every Sunday, dressing up, then begging to be forgiven for the fact that we were born as humans.

Most of the Christians don't do that either. We just live by the 10 amendments.

Also, faith is just like placebo. It may or may not work or be plausible, but hey, it's worth trying. It's not like you lose anything if you were wrong.

 

[sramota]

I'd like to see one of these whackjobs get the swineflu despite having taken the flu shot and then argue against evolving organisms....

You are saying all those who believe in god are whack jobs.You also wish harm to them. You are just as bad as a bible thumper telling all atheists they are going to hell. If you believe there is no god,that is your right. I believe in god, that is my right. Why can't you agree to disagree. We all worship something. Whether that be god ,sports,video games,movies etc. There is something you can't live without and always want to have.[/quote]
I'm saying bacteria are evolving at a rate which we can study,
but, sure, go ahead and read in a WHOLE lot more into a post than that...

For someone who believe without questioning you... Wait, you just prove my point even more by assuming I'm stating things without questioning.

And for the sake of argument: No, I don't worship Anything. I hold a firm anti-material standpoint and shun any and all things that causes one to stagnate.
So, no, we don't all worship something, it's just you Dogpeople who need a pack and can't rise up to be an Alpha. Us cats.. We just shake our heads.

Because were not dedicating our lives to following an entity that might not exist. We're not wakig up every Sunday, dressing up, then begging to be forgiven for the fact that we were born as humans.

Most of the Christians don't do that either. We just live by the 10 amendments.

Also, faith is just like placebo. It may or may not work or be plausible, but hey, it's worth trying. It's not like you lose anything if you were wrong.

I find it SO fascinating that you actually need to list ten things not to do..
As chance would have it, those things, among a rather bleeding large list of things, are also things I don't do, even without any need of anyone to tell me to not do it.
Amazing isn't it.. We're the same, just one of us didn't need to be told.

 

[LewsTherin]

?I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.?

Spoiler: please spoiler large images

My only problem with that list is the fact The Buddha is not a god....

Really takes up space, thanks.

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

Because some people need proof for everything.

Indeed, those fools called "intellectual" and "sane"..


"Oh there's a bearded fella flying above us without a plane despite 6-7 billion others being unable? Oh he's also invisible, creating everything and the only one of his kind and he created all this from nothing, for no reason, and made us because he loves us, even though he couldn't love if he didn't create emotions so he can not love without creating love and then it's just a machination of his own device, quite like a sociopath proclaiming "love" for someone...? Yeeeeah you might want to give support for that claim."

In contrast to mr Christian who goes "That makes PERFECT sense!"
Damn scientology look-a-likes...

I could easily be sceptical about your non-belief. If a god is real than he is most likely unable to comprehend, making narrow minded people like you needing proof for something that you would never be able to process. And who says he has a beard.

How the hell are we narrow minded? Atheists like me have concluded that some people made up this 'too complicated to understand' entity for giggles and shits. I don't see where narrow-mindedness comes into it.

Also some Christians stole the image for their god from Zeus, who had a very nice beard.

 

[roboosh]

God doesn't have to be provable, which is a good thing because God isn't provable as of yet. As many in this forum have already said, that's why it's called accepting what has you've been told without considering it yourself *cough* sorry I mean faith.

 

[Skeleon]

Most of the Christians don't do that either. We just live by the 10 amendments.

Most atheists live by the 10 commandments, too.
Well, except for the first three, of course.
4-10 aren't really that specific to the Christian/Jewish religion, they're basic moral rules of conduct that have been around a lot longer.

 

[Ghostkai]

Well, if i'm told that I must believe something and act a certain way "or else" (being any religious punishment out there), of course I'm going to ask why? then demand proof after the long winded explanation of the "why".

 

[ILPPendant]

EDIT: Aaargh, this thread is moving too fast for me to keep up.

This. It is curious how science becomes so much like religion. We trust other people without much of a basis, like having faith that your significant other won't cheat on you, or that your friends will help you in your time of need. How could having faith in God be that much different?

Because, ultimately, a person could theoretically train to be in a position where they can indeed verify many of the great scientific discoveries but no matter how many years you spend as a priest or any other kind of religious minister, you still have nothing material to show for your efforts.

Granted, it's unlikely that the average person is going to get access to CERN's particle accelerator but the principle is "Here are my results, this is what I did to get them, I stake my reputation on what I've found, so go knock yourselves out." Really, what grounds do you honestly have to tell the Pope to his face, "Actually, your Holiness, you're talking claptrap, and here's why."

For science to be founded on non-existent data (and therefore "faith" in the truest sense of the word) would be incredibly self-destructive, because there are a lot of scientists out there, more than practical to keep in a conspiracy. Remember that thread a while back that surveyed scientists? It found that a sizeable majority keep tabs on work done outside their field. The experiences of that Korean cloning researcher who falsified his results should be all the evidence we need of the consequences of trying to make stuff up.

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

Because the people that think it's worth their time to actually question something like this want proof even though it's not really their business. They should find something better to do than trying to prove the existence of deities, because you can't do it.

 

[stabnex]

Because big businesses religions demand money for costs of living such as crushed velvet chairs, and silver crosses, and porches, and boats, and pedophile insurance. They get all this from your blind faith. Every time someone asks, "Why should I believe in god?" a Bishop misses a yacht payment.

No religion will tolerate such questions, and this is why we must ask them. Belief should come from the soul, not the check book. That's why I'm leaning towards Buddhism.

 

[Archaeology Hat]

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence evil cometh?

Is he neither willing nor able?

Then why call him god?

- Epicurius, 33AD

 

[mplummer]

I believe in god. The day i believe in evolution is the day i see a building gather all the materials needed to build itself and then builds itself. That is next to impossible.That is like 900 quadrillion to 1.

Well, if we take the idea the time is infinte, then it actually becomes highly possible -
over so much time, things with such small chances to happen become near certainties.
like i could flip a coin 1000 times in a row and have it land on heads every time. extremely unprobable, but over infinite amounts of time, it is certainly going to happen, and it only took one such chance to create the universe i.e. big bang.

There are also examples where this happens in daily life anyway, for example, human bodies. our bodies gather all the materials needed to build themselves and then build themselves from that. Or, to point to a definite man made invention, computers build other computers, processes maintain them etc.

The other thing is that evolution is by no means a deterrent to god. Computers regularly go through processes to maintain themselves, but someone or something had to build the computer. evolution is the process by which the earth is maintained, and therefore has little to do with the creation of the earth itself.

personally, i'm agnostic leaning on the side of atheist. I don't see a being or almighty power which created the world, and i certainly feel no compulsion to worship it, but equally i have no solid reason for denying the existence of such a power. Instead, i feel that a scientific explanation is far more likely.

The problem with science vs. religion arguments is that so many points made are in effect redundant, but people refuse to see that, meaning that nobody will ever get any closer to proving the truth or denying it. Every point made by science can be countered simply with "it was all part of God's plan" or "God made it", and every point made by religion can be countered with "well what made god?". Nobody has any answers, nobody ever will so the most we can go on is faith. However, those who feel so strongly that they are correct are the people who require proof or disproof.

If something makes you happy or secure, then people have every right to be able to believe in it. For most, this is enough, but when the belief gets carried away problems start (i.e. crusades) but this is equally true of science (experimenting on live people, other grotesque forms of research).

I'm happy in the middle, and i doubt that anything will ever shift me one way or the other.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Because some people need proof for everything.

Indeed, those fools called "intellectual" and "sane"..


"Oh there's a bearded fella flying above us without a plane despite 6-7 billion others being unable? Oh he's also invisible, creating everything and the only one of his kind and he created all this from nothing, for no reason, and made us because he loves us, even though he couldn't love if he didn't create emotions so he can not love without creating love and then it's just a machination of his own device, quite like a sociopath proclaiming "love" for someone...? Yeeeeah you might want to give support for that claim."

In contrast to mr Christian who goes "That makes PERFECT sense!"
Damn scientology look-a-likes...

I could easily be sceptical about your non-belief. If a god is real than he is most likely unable to comprehend, making narrow minded people like you needing proof for something that you would never be able to process. And who says he has a beard.

How the hell are we narrow minded? Atheists like me have concluded that some people made up this 'too complicated to understand' entity for giggles and shits. I don't see where narrow-mindedness comes into it.

Also some Christians stole the image for their god from Zeus, who had a very nice beard.

I have nothing against atheists, by the way. Just making that clear before I go on.

While Tdc went about his defense in the wrong way (don't like the 'attack the debater rather than the debate' argument, I believe it's called 'ad hominem' ), he was on the defensive, I believe, because sramota attacked every single Christian by calling us all crazy, stupid, and comparing every single one of us to Scientologists. That was just a little bit insulting.

On-topic, the reason we believe in God is simple. We have faith that he exists. We don't need proof that God exists to believe that he does, any more that anybody needs proof that there is no water on Pluto to believe there isn't. We haven't seen any pictures of Pluto's surface (that I know of), but does anyone think there is water there? No. Why do we believe that there isn't? We just do. Same general concept.