I am enjoying Final Fantasy 13

[Akihiko]

Not to mention the fact that by the look of your achievements it's obvious you haven't played most of these "bad" jRPGs for more than five minutes.

I don't know about that, personally. JRPGs have some shitty achievement drips. Most of them are post-story content.

25 hours into Blue Dragon, I still only had 20 GS in it.

And 60 hours of Star Ocean 4 gave me around 350.

Yeah, I know, but apart from Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia, he has either 1 (in Infinite Undiscovery, achievements aren't that stingy in that game unless you really suck) and 0 in Eternal Sonata (and that means he hasn't even finished one chapter of the game; hardly enough to judge). And he hasn't even played the rest of them.

Actually I would say Eternal Sonata and Infinite Undiscovery are fairly stingy. I mean you're right if the person only has 1 achievement then they didn't get very far. However with Infinite Undiscovery there's quite a few hidden ones, where you have to fill specific requirements, which could easily be missed if you didn't know about them. I mean I've completed it and only got 300MS. And with Eternal Sonata, I've completed it and only got 120MS. That all said with both of them I didn't really bother checking the achievements, I just played through the game normally without caring about achievements. Didn't really care about the post game content either.

As for Final Fantasy XIII. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It could have had some improvements, true, but it was still an interesting experience, especially the battle system. Not for everyone, I guess though.

 

[Thaius]

Yeah, it's a lot better than the haters say. It was not perfect, but the battle system is actually quite deep and interesting, and the characters... People complain about Hope, but I thought the plot aspects involving his vendetta against Snow and Lightning's encouragement and such... All that culminates in a scene you probably haven't gotten to yet that is absolutely amazing. Not in my top three (those go to VII, VI, and X), but it's really good regardless.

 

[Thaius]

Yeah, it's a lot better than the haters say. It was not perfect, but the battle system is actually quite deep and interesting, and the characters... People complain about Hope, but I thought the plot aspects involving his vendetta against Snow and Lightning's encouragement and such... All that culminates in a scene you probably haven't gotten to yet that is absolutely amazing. Not in my top three (those go to VII, VI, and X), but it's really good regardless.

Hope's mother CHOSE to go fight and when she died, it was her own doing (she let go). Lesson to Square, if you want the audience to feel empathy for Hope, don't let us see what really happened when she died. They could have shown us that scene from a distance (from Hope's view) and then later showed it to us up close.

Wait, so you're saying a young boy should be okay with watching his mother die because she went willingly to fight? Sorry, that just wouldn't happen. I don't care how justified her reasons were, a young boy would feel unimaginable grief and very possibly try to take it out on someone he could reasonably blame.

Plus, she didn't let go, <url=http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Nora_Estheim#Final_Fantasy_XIII>she fell unconscious from mortal wounds while Snow was holding on. It's not like she just let herself die.

 

[CosmicSpiral]

Yeah, it's a lot better than the haters say. It was not perfect, but the battle system is actually quite deep and interesting, and the characters... People complain about Hope, but I thought the plot aspects involving his vendetta against Snow and Lightning's encouragement and such... All that culminates in a scene you probably haven't gotten to yet that is absolutely amazing. Not in my top three (those go to VII, VI, and X), but it's really good regardless.

Hope's mother CHOSE to go fight and when she died, it was her own doing (she let go). Lesson to Square, if you want the audience to feel empathy for Hope, don't let us see what really happened when she died. They could have shown us that scene from a distance (from Hope's view) and then later showed it to us up close.

Wait, so you're saying a young boy should be okay with watching his mother die because she went willingly to fight? Sorry, that just wouldn't happen. I don't care how justified her reasons were, a young boy would feel unimaginable grief and very possibly try to take it out on someone he could reasonably blame.

Plus, she didn't let go, <url=http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Nora_Estheim#Final_Fantasy_XIII>she fell unconscious from mortal wounds while Snow was holding on. It's not like she just let herself die.

While it make us empathize with his sadness and anger, seeing it from a third-person point of view destroys the rationale that would justify his revenge. It could have gone down the Greek tragedy route (which also uses that point of view), but Hope isn't compelling enough to sell me on that. Either way it's predictable that all the misunderstandings would eventually get straightened out.

EDIT: Actually, it's not Hope's fault. The entire situation doesn't really work.

 

[0kami]

If you're enjoying it, more power to you.

I enjoyed it at first, but I stopped playing it after about 10 hours when repetition started to kick in. It was just too linear in both level design and character progression for me to continue playing it.

 

[ckam]

I wonder why Final Fantasy XIII gets so much flack but Final Fantasy XII doesn't. FFXIII is actually fine but I'm pretty sure that didn't kill any RPG.

 

[Defense]

Hope is actually one of the better "emo" characters from Final Fantasy, it's just that people can't stand realistic characters. Seriously, his mom died and he's trying to exact revenge on the person who he has to travel with, who despite being responsible for his mother's death still acts like a child and calls himself a hero. I don't know about you, but I'd be fucking pissed if that happened. I'm not Cooke and Mack, I can't bounce back in a few minutes after a crappy torch lighting minigame considering my mom died.

Honestly, all of the characters are pretty lame at the beginning, but the point of Final Fantasy XIII is character development over anything. Every single character has a significant change in their personality throughout the story.

The story just falls flat on its face at the end, you'll be very disappointed and confused. It's an interesting enough concept and the mythos is quite interesting, but the ending is so nonsensical that even the game script can't follow what's happening.

And honestly, it's an RPG in the slightest sense, if at all. Just because it's a Final Fantasy game doesn't mean it's an RPG. It's like if PopCap made a gritty FPS and everyone called it casual just because PopCap made it.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

cool story bro Everyone has to admit that Square Enix's games look awesome.

For the game, well, everyone's entitled to their opinion

 

[MAUSZX]

Yeah I was skeptical because of the reviews and i rent the game and I enjoy the game so much, the graphics are pretty, the story is interesting, haven't finished, the game is long and fun.
It's not perfect, I mean the upgrading weapons, I thought it was going to be like the upgrading system in Castelvania curse of darkness.

 

[iamthelizardqueen88]

Personally I couldnt stand FFXIII for 2 very big reasons the battle system and the way the story was presented. Im not gonna do into detail about what I didnt like about the battle system just know its the only reason I traded the game in before I beat it and like you said datalogs defiantly should not be the may way to get the story across. That being said MOST of the characters were alright and the over all story was decent but I still believe it was one of the worst in the series (had FFVIII and FFXII not come around it would be the worst)

 

[Akihiko]

And honestly, it's an RPG in the slightest sense, if at all. Just because it's a Final Fantasy game doesn't mean it's an RPG. It's like if PopCap made a gritty FPS and everyone called it casual just because PopCap made it.

The problem stems from the lack of definition for a role-playing game. It's become such a vast genre that the original meaning has gotten blurred. I still consider it very much of an rpg, as it still contains a lot of rpg features, it just got rid of some exploration, which I didn't care for much anyway.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Then you and I are clearly very different types of players, because I detested FF13, from its under-developed characters, confusing story, and unengaging combat. If you're enjoying it, then more power to you.

 

[ProtoChimp]

I know, I'm shocked too. Let me explain why.

Previously I've ranted all over the internet about how much I hated Final Fantasy X and thought that the series has been in more or less a downward spiral since the success of FF7. Hell I feel like its in a downward spiral BECAUSE of the success of 7. For the same reasons that many other fans have stated - an over-focus on cutscenes, bad writing, million dollar visual effects, and overly catering to j-pop trash instead of the classic Final Fantasy Gameplay that made the first 7 or so games so fantastic to begin with.

As such I didn't even pick up Final Fantasy 13 when it released. The reviews, I felt, said all I needed to know. "A series of corridors?!? Using a Datalog to deliver exposition!?! No towns?!? Another plot that focuses on a weakling child as a character!?! A one-button automated combat system?!? A 20 hour long tutorial!?! You're DEAD to me, Final Fantasy!"

I knew I would eventually try it for myself, but I decided to wait until the price was significantly low or I had some form of disposable income that I could justify its purchase with. Well last week I received a gift certificate to Gamestop and picked up a stack of games, one of which was Final Fantasy 13. And honestly so far, it's the best entry into the series since Final Fantasy 7.

Okay yes, it does start slow and confusing. Datalogs should be supplemental to storytelling, never primary. However the game poses enough interesting story questions that I kept pushing forward to get answers, and by hour 4 or so I was only using the datalog as a supplement. The voice acting is fantastic and Vanille is nowhere near as annoying as previous 'zany' pre-teen female sidekicks. Hope needs to choke on a boomerang, sure - but I'll take weakling coward over arrogant prick (Tidus, Vaan) any day.

Games should offer the player some kind of control, and for the first two or three hours of FF13 you can more or less just push a single button to advance the game. There is no choice, there is no exploration. They made a real mistake drawing out the 'tutorial' this long. But yet again a few hours in I was past this complaint. Once they introduce classes, paradigms, and upgradeable equipment my 'customization' itch was getting adequately scratched. The game still has slightly less exploration than FFX (which started this whole 'corridor' trend in FF), but I can get past that.

Right now I'm about 7 hours into the game and I have to say it is a far better game than I was led to believe. The story is unique and bizarre without being laughably ridiculous, and I'm interested to see what comes next. The characters are the best the series has seen in many iterations, I feel like Lightning is exactly the kind of heroine Final Fantasy needed. The combat, once all of its aspects are 'revealed' is unique and engaging.

Oh and also, the game is absolutely breath-taking. The art design is fucking fantastic, and the j-trash costume design that's plagued the series since FF8 was relegated mostly to side-characters and pushed to the background.

Is it a great game so far? No, aside from the visual design nothing in the game leads me to believe that it will be a lasting classic. But it is far from the boring, series-worst, genre-killing abomination that has been described to me. Like I said, so far its my favorite game in the series since 7 - mostly because nothing has happened yet that has filled me with pure nerd rage, and none of the characters push my buttons like those in FF8-FF12.

I feel, literally, the same way and went through, literally, the exact same phase. It's only when I picked it up that it turned out "Hey this ain't that bad". Except I'm like 30 hours in AND I'M FUCKING LOVING IT, I'M LOVING ALL THE WEIRD SHIT GOING ON, IT'S JUST AWESOME.

 

[ProtoChimp]

Not to mention the fact that by the look of your achievements it's obvious you haven't played most of these "bad" jRPGs for more than five minutes.

I don't know about that, personally. JRPGs have some shitty achievement drips. Most of them are post-story content.

25 hours into Blue Dragon, I still only had 20 GS in it.

And 60 hours of Star Ocean 4 gave me around 350.

Yeah, I know, but apart from Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia, he has either 1 (in Infinite Undiscovery, achievements aren't that stingy in that game unless you really suck) and 0 in Eternal Sonata (and that means he hasn't even finished one chapter of the game; hardly enough to judge). And he hasn't even played the rest of them.

I never managed to finish LO. The final dungeon pissed me off. Random battles in there were really long and really frequent.

I liked it a lot up until then....

You know maybe he just hasn't played them on his 360, maybe he played it on another console.

 

[Thaius]

Yeah, it's a lot better than the haters say. It was not perfect, but the battle system is actually quite deep and interesting, and the characters... People complain about Hope, but I thought the plot aspects involving his vendetta against Snow and Lightning's encouragement and such... All that culminates in a scene you probably haven't gotten to yet that is absolutely amazing. Not in my top three (those go to VII, VI, and X), but it's really good regardless.

Hope's mother CHOSE to go fight and when she died, it was her own doing (she let go). Lesson to Square, if you want the audience to feel empathy for Hope, don't let us see what really happened when she died. They could have shown us that scene from a distance (from Hope's view) and then later showed it to us up close.

Wait, so you're saying a young boy should be okay with watching his mother die because she went willingly to fight? Sorry, that just wouldn't happen. I don't care how justified her reasons were, a young boy would feel unimaginable grief and very possibly try to take it out on someone he could reasonably blame.

Plus, she didn't let go, <url=http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Nora_Estheim#Final_Fantasy_XIII>she fell unconscious from mortal wounds while Snow was holding on. It's not like she just let herself die.

Hope was a whiny brat and no one (including Lightning) set him straight even though she knew that Snow didn't "kill" his mother. They dragged the drama out far too long. I could understand Hope being upset but he should said something to Snow before Snow took off on the bike at the beginning of the game. It played out like a damn soap opera. Lightning should have told him that it was a misunderstanding but instead let him go on torturing the players.

Even if I were to agree that Hope acted like any kid would (I don't), it doesn't make good entertainment to watch. I guess if you like soap operas where they draw out a 5 minute sequence over a month then it works fine but how many gamers are fans of soap operas?

Maybe she didn't purposely let go but neither did Snow let her go.

Again, he was a young kid. He led a rebellion, she joined him and died. For a grieving child looking for some way to understand what happened, that's enough correlation to blame Snow in a desperate attempt to understand the loss of his mother. If you're judging by "entertainment" then no, maybe it's not. But if "entertainment" is more important than quality storytelling, why are you playing Final Fantasy?

As for Lightning, she was what took the conflict to the next level. She herself hated Snow, even before Serah turned to crystal, which is why her anger drove her to encourage and empower Hope. The conflict between characters in FFXIII was rather complex, pitting Lightning and Snow in direct opposition to each other even down to their base personalities (Snow as an optimistic idealist and Lightning as a cynical realist) so that Lightning would, in her hatred of Snow, actually encourage Hope toward his revenge. The character interaction is quite complex and interesting, really. It's not Lightning neglecting to set the brat straight, it's her being blinded by her common hatred of Snow and wrongfully encouraging Hope; this is what her later monologue is all about. It played out like a soap opera only in the way all Japanese stories do: it took a long time, it involved plenty of monologues, and emphasized the characters' turmoil. Difference being that it's actually intricate rather than superficial.