I can't get lost (Skyrim related)

[Shirastro]

As much as i am loving Skyrim, there is this one thing that i just cant stomach.

I've spent, Azura knows how many, hours in Skyrim by now, and not once actually got lost or had to stop and figure out where i have to go.

Every time i get a quest where i have to "find" something....there is no "finding", there is only the "follow the mark on your compass until you bump into that person/item/location".

All the dungeons are extremely linear and boil down to: follow a clearly obvious path to the end > loot > take the shortcut back.

I know that there was a compass mark back in oblivion as well, but at least the dungeons were complicated, had many different levels, bunch of side rooms and different directions you could go.

Back in Morrowind all we had is a set of vague directions and it could take hours just to find that elusive cave hidden in the wild.
Anyone remember the quest you get from Ashlanders to find the cave of Azura, and all they told you is to go more or less to the east until you find a slightly stranger looking rock (among many other strange rocks).
Or when you were sent to Vivec city and had to find some people.....by actually asking around and looking for them.

I know that spending so much time just trying to find something might not be to everyone's taste, but i think that's one of the biggest reasons i fell in love with Bethesda games in the first place.

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

As much as i am loving Skyrim, there is this one thing that i just cant stomach.

I've spent Azura knows how many hours in Skyrim by now, and not once actually got lost or having to stop and figure out where i have to go.

Every time i get a quest where i have to "find" something....there is no "finding", there is only the "follow the mark on your compass until you bump into that person/item/location".

All the dungeons are extremely linear and boil down to following a clearly obvious path to the end > loot > than take the shortcut back.

I know that there was a compass mark back in oblivion as well, but at least the dungeons were complicated, had many different levels, bunch of side rooms and different directions you could go.

Back in Morrowind all we had is a set of vague directions and it could take hours just to find that elusive cave hidden in the wild.
Anyone remember the quest you get from Ashlanders to find the cave of Azura, and all they told you is to go more or less to the east until you find a slightly stranger looking rock (among many other strange rocks).
Or when you were sent to Vivec city and had to find some people.....by actually asking around and looking for them.

I know that spending so much time just trying to find something might not be to everyone's taste, but i think that's one of the biggest reasons i fell in love with Bethesda games in the first place.

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

Compass mark is optional, you can turn it off.

Also, Oblivion's dungeons complicated? Big, perhaps. Not complicated. They were as bland and generic as it's possible to be. They are the plain porridge of dungeons.

 

[Tigurus]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

 

[Shirastro]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

 

[Alan Landry]

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Yep more or less, i think thats why we burn through games so quickly these days, man i remember the first time i beat morrowind i felt like a boss, it's funny that you mentioned those 2 quests btw. often use them as a point of reference as to why morrowind was so awesome.

 

[Llil]

All the dungeons are extremely linear and boil down to: follow a clearly obvious path to the end > loot > take the shortcut back.

If you want complex dungeons, try Daggerfall.

Spoiler

Just look at that thing. I've been stuck for hours in some of the dungeons, and I'm not sure it's purely a good thing. (I still like the game, however.)

Anyway, I haven't played Skyrim yet, but if it's anything like Oblivion, then yes, you really can't get lost at all. I guess it's nice to have some sort of a clear goal, but it does kill the exploration a bit. And just turning off the compass (or modding it out) doesn't really work either, because the characters don't give you instructions on how to get anywhere. (Why would they, you have a compass.)

A system where the compass is defaulted to off would be great, because then you would need to have the game give you directions (like in Morrowind), but if you got stuck, you could turn on the compass.

 

[Tigurus]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Well, it could be that developers want to make their games accessible to a wide audience. Thus making it easier to make sure everyone "can" enjoy it. Because, let's face it. I doubt many people want to look hours and hours for a rock in a mountain range.

 

[Jandau]

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

Neither. We get a different game. You mention Morrowind, and while it was kinda fun at times to wander with some vague directions, many times it was tedious and annoying, trying to figure out where the person you are looking for is. It's a design decision and Beth opted for the more user-friendly approach. The game still encourages you to explore the world quite a bit, but allows you to complete your objectives in an efficient manner if that's what you want.

 

[Vegosiux]

If you want complex dungeons, try Daggerfall.

Ah yes, those octopus-orgy-resembling dungeon maps can be intimidating. Even Privateer's hold was intimidating. And you got a walkthrough for it on the game box. And it was the least complex dungeon of the game (unless you count Mantellan Crux, and Nulfaga's castle once you know what to say to the gargoyles).

Some of the bigger dungeons were completely outrageous. Oh, and if you happened to become a vampire, you woke up in one and had to find your way out.

 

[theriddlen]

For most people getting lost and not knowing exactly what to do causes frustration. That's why many (including me) consider Morrowind to be a terrible game. Especially since same year came out Gothic 2: A Much Better Game.

 

[Llil]

Ah yes, those octopus-orgy-resembling dungeon maps can be intimidating. Even Privateer's hold was intimidating. And you got a walkthrough for it on the game box. And it was the least complex dungeon of the game (unless you count Mantellan Crux, and Nulfaga's castle once you know what to say to the gargoyles).

Some of the bigger dungeons were completely outrageous. Oh, and if you happened to become a vampire, you woke up in one and had to find your way out.

I especially like some of the ones where the quest item you're looking for is in an area that's only accessible through a small hole in the ceiling that you have to climb or levitate through. And is impossible to see unless you know it's there or just happen to look up in the right place. And doesn't even show up on the map.

Good times.

 

[Shirastro]

For most people getting lost and not knowing exactly what to do causes frustration. That's why many (including me) consider Morrowind to be a terrible game. Especially since same year came out Gothic 2: A Much Better Game.

Many consider Morrowind to be a terrible game?.....realy?

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Streamlining =/= dumbed down. If done wrong, then yes it is. But anything can be done wrong.

Anyway, couldn't you just not set the quest as active? Then it wouldn't have the little marks and stuff.

 

[Shirastro]

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

Neither. We get a different game. You mention Morrowind, and while it was kinda fun at times to wander with some vague directions, many times it was tedious and annoying, trying to figure out where the person you are looking for is. It's a design decision and Beth opted for the more user-friendly approach. The game still encourages you to explore the world quite a bit, but allows you to complete your objectives in an efficient manner if that's what you want.

Yes but exploring the world on your own and trying to find something specific are two different things.
This isn't a matter of making something better, but a matter of completely removing an aspect of the game.

 

[Risingblade]

So you WANT to get lost? really?

 

[Shirastro]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Streamlining =/= dumbed down. If done wrong, then yes it is. But anything can be done wrong.

Anyway, couldn't you just not set the quest as active? Then it wouldn't have the little marks and stuff.

Like mentioned already, yes you could do that but Skyrim doesn't really support playing like this, since NPC give you no directions to where you have to go and you are expected to use the compass mark.

 

[Dimitriov]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Well, it could be that developers want to make their games accessible to a wide audience. Thus making it easier to make sure everyone "can" enjoy it. Because, let's face it. I doubt many people want to look hours and hours for a rock in a mountain range.

Yeah but the problem is that no one makes those games at all anymore. So those of us who really enjoy that aspect of exploration get nothing.

And since Bethesda used to make those games it seems like a reasonable complaint to level against them: plenty of other studios were already making easily accessible games.

And for the people who say that you can turn of the marker: yes you can, but the game doesn't really support that since you are often not given actual directions, the assumption being that you WILL use the compass.

 

[Pimppeter2]

This is as stupid as the fast travel argument. If you don't like it, Ignore it. Turn it off. Use the map that came with the game and mark your own stuff.

I love fast travel and map markers. I can fit 8 hours of gaming into 1. That may be streamlined, but honestly, who cares? Most people have shit to do. And I love skyrim, I want to finish it. I want to see as much as I can. I dont want to spend most of my time with it getting from place to place and trying to find the one cave amongst 500 of them. I want to know what happens.


This isn't "dumbing down" a game, it makes it a whole lot better.

 

[theriddlen]

For most people getting lost and not knowing exactly what to do causes frustration. That's why many (including me) consider Morrowind to be a terrible game. Especially since same year came out Gothic 2: A Much Better Game.

Many consider Morrowind to be a terrible game?.....realy?

Yes. Many people heard about it being a great game, and after trying to play it they bounced right off it - I personally don't know any person who liked it. I myself love RPGs, but Morrowind just failed to immerse me.