I don't understand griefing

[Wargamer]

1. It's no universal to everyone what "unbalanced" or "overpowered" means, and im gonna use the example of TF2 because i play that game a lot. It's easy to say "omg griefer OP" because you simply lack the skill or...ok i dont want to use the word skill when talking about tf2 but you get the point. It's sometimes not a matter of "it's OP", sometimes its simply just the case of you not knowing how to counter a specific weapon and if you get killed by it over and over again, you might want to rethink that it might just be you yourself who lacks the "skill" :L

I've heard that bullshit a thousand times across a thousand game systems, and it's bullshit.

There are very few, if any games that are 100% balanced in all aspects. Traditional games do best because both players have the same pieces, play by the same (fairly straightforward) rules, and thus skill is the dictator of who wins... but if you were to take two players of equal skill and have them play a hundred games, never switching colours, one side would win more than the other because of whether or not it is advantageous to go first.

This is not, however, a true example of overpowered, because honestly, there's no way to counter that flaw - SOMEONE has to go first. No, to be overpowered, it must be avoidable.

Let's look at some games. Any Space Marine players in the room? Name a weapon that broken. Plasma Cannon? Hmm... let's see... why could that be broken?
A) It can one-hit kill enemies that can survive a Lascannon Headshot - an attack that is meant to be the single deadliest attack in the game.
B) Indirect fire.
C) Splash Damage.
D) Fire on the Move ability.
There is no Hard Counter to this weapon. It can be used in every situation, and to an obsurdly broken extent. The 'correct' method of killing them is to use an Assault Class, but because of the splash damage they can still win out, and if all else fails they can commit suicide to deny your team the kill, making it doubly over-powered when the objective is to reach a set kill count.

Plenty of other weapons turn up to varying degrees. I played MGS4 a hell of a lot, and when Drebin Points are disabled it's no coincidence you see people spamming the M4 Carbine. I'd argue the XM8 is 'overpowered' compared to the M4, but you can only get that via Drebin Points - you have to 'buy' the weapon with what amounts to in-match xp, and you only get it until you die and then you have to either buy it again, or find a cheaper alternative. That helps balance the otherwise unbalanced weapon - where such balancing is absent, it's down to the players and their own sense of sportsmanship to step up and say "you know what? Fuck that weapon, fuck that perk, and fuck that broken playstyle that ruins the game for everyone else!"

And for the record, my skills are pretty damn sharp on the games I play, and it's never purely because of wargear. Wargear IS a factor (face it, you don't go into a tunnel-fight with a sniper rifle if you know what you're doing), but I don't win because I bring the cheapest options. It's all well and good crying foul at someone because they've got an SMG that's got better accuracy than a sniper rifle, but crying foul because they're using shotguns in a close-quarter battle is just sad.

 

[ElPatron]

The problem with sites like Stormfront is that you have to pretend that you are one of them.

If you come to the Escapist and make a thread "PS3 SUCKS, ENJOY YOUR AIDS" there would be people on your side and people who perfectly understand that you are trying to flame.

Come to Stormfront, start posting news of minorities getting smaller prison sentences because of excuse X.

Pretend to be part of their rage. Exploit the cracks and eventually you have people flinging shit at everyone for you.

In the Early Days of the Internet, people who specifically tried to incite flame wars or arguments were quickly talked down or voted down, and told "that's not how we do things here." It's only in recent times that people have started to defend trolling, and I don't really understand why they would. It's not like the practice has gotten any less pointless or mean-spirited.

Many of the people I have interacted with and were around back when everyone had Usenet access often explain that this example is a case of "bait". You can't troll people with that alone. It's an attempt at trolling.

Now, posting that kind of things either works or fails. Either way, it's not a troll. A lot of people actually care about what you posted on their Facebook wall instead of just restricting comments. People have the need to look good on the internet.

It can't be trolling if all you had to do is lay the bait. You have to explore that bait.

But troll became a generic term for any griefer, flamer, dickwad, etc. You can certainly get far with those methods, but it's often hushed fast.

This is my favorite example.

He did not have to be a dick about it or force anyone into his views. All he had to do was pose as a complete retard and make a perfect parody of Sony fanboys.


He laid the bait, and exploited it at it's fullest. Literally every second of video is squeezing troll potential.

Try to act like him in a forum. You need several posts to make yourself look this dumb, really subtly.

Try to use PS Triple and Xbox Circle in the same post and everyone knows what you are trying to do.

Try to stay under the radar by replying with insults. You can't. Chad just spit out what he wanted to say and you only feel offended by association.

 

[geK0]

I don't grief that often but..... there's just something fun about annoying people, and it's really easy to do over a video game.

It's not something I do often, but I just like messing with people sometimes, lol.


10 level 80 (wotlk) horde characters following a level 40 alliance character around tanaris and CCing him repeatedly? funny as hell! lmao

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

Believe it or not, I'm not denying all of that. (some, maybe, but that's not the point) What I'm getting at is, even if the intent is just accelerating the inevitable, it doesn't change the fact that the person is being a dick. Regardless of the positive or negative aspects of the outcome.

When I have a real issue with it, trolling and griefing that is, is when someone uses it for personal entertainment only. When they actively seek out a 'relatively' innocent group to harass, belittle, and disrupt simply because they like to cause conflict. Those are the bottom-feeding scum I was talking about in one of my earlier posts. These are the people that disgust me.

Now, trolling a troll or griefing a griefer? That I can, at times, get behind. As long as it's pointed solely at the troll/griefer in a "taste of their own medicine" fashion.

So you really can't see the "fun" of reminding other people sadistically about they dont or cant have that you yourself already acquired?

Really?...really ?

In both you and me there lives a small little sadist like that, even on a very small level its basically denial. Sure you dont have to act it out at every possible time but, have you never actually felt good for yourself when say, something bad happened to a person that you didnt like? and im not talking horrible stuff like, oh this guy who used to bully me, his parents died, harr harr harr, sweet revenge.

No i meant in the sense of: Oh that guy gets on my nerves, hey look he hit himself on the door right in his stupid face, hah! xD

That kind of fun is completely legitimate and is just the same as mild griefing to me

Can you maybe rewrite that first sentence? I have no idea what you're trying to say there. No insult intended, I just don't get where you going with that.

As to your point, I think you missed mine. I did NOT say I had issue with griefing a griefer. As in, griefing someone who's being rude, disruptive, insulting, and obnoxious to the rest of the players. And, as long as the counter-griefing isn't..well..rude, disruptive, insulting, or obnoxious to anyone other than the original griefer, I see no problem.

As I had said, I find the best method to deal with a griefer is to grief them right back. Only, with a certain level of irony, humor, and detachment. (so as to not give them the impression they're getting to you)

Do I mean you should be, as you put it, "sadistic" about it? Hell no. Then you're being just as big a jerk as they are. However, doing it to give them "a taste of their own medicine" is okay by me. Though, you're still a dick if you do it. Just sayin'.

The part you seemed to not grasp (or maybe ignored, I don't know) is where I said I have issue with the people that will, say, join a random server with the sole intent on messing with people and ruining the game for everyone. These are the assholes I think of when I think of "griefing" and they are the ones that disgust me.

Coincidentally, they are also the ones who will often defend griefing and trolling by saying it's "fun" or that the other person "deserved it" for taking the game "too seriously".