I'm not arguing with you about that. I just thought this thread would be an appropriate one to share this on.Vigormortis said:
I don't understand griefing
- Thread starter Evil Smurf
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Believe it or not, I'm not denying all of that. (some, maybe, but that's not the point) What I'm getting at is, even if the intent is just accelerating the inevitable, it doesn't change the fact that the person is being a dick. Regardless of the positive or negative aspects of the outcome.ElPatron said:
When I have a real issue with it, trolling and griefing that is, is when someone uses it for personal entertainment only. When they actively seek out a 'relatively' innocent group to harass, belittle, and disrupt simply because they like to cause conflict. Those are the bottom-feeding scum I was talking about in one of my earlier posts. These are the people that disgust me.
Now, trolling a troll or griefing a griefer? That I can, at times, get behind. As long as it's pointed solely at the troll/griefer in a "taste of their own medicine" fashion.
Oh, any time is a good time to share a gem like that. It's hilarious and always a classic.Dfskelleton said:
I was just saying, what was happening in that video is hardly what I would quantify as griefing or trolling.
In short, it's the playground bully scenario in digital form.
That or you can look at it from this point:
Q: Why play multiplayer instead of fighting the bots for free?
A: You know that behind the screen, someone else if actually being defeated by you.
It's normally a lot easier to grief people than to beat them in a game. Simple glitches, doorlocks, item hoarding, can cause the same frustration/ragequit reactions that getting a 40+ killstreak would yield. It's easier, simple as that. This is where the "I'm just playing the game a different way." saying originated. There are other reasons such as to inhibit the other team from within while assisting a friend on the other side but the previous situation seems to be more prevalent.
That or you can look at it from this point:
Q: Why play multiplayer instead of fighting the bots for free?
A: You know that behind the screen, someone else if actually being defeated by you.
It's normally a lot easier to grief people than to beat them in a game. Simple glitches, doorlocks, item hoarding, can cause the same frustration/ragequit reactions that getting a 40+ killstreak would yield. It's easier, simple as that. This is where the "I'm just playing the game a different way." saying originated. There are other reasons such as to inhibit the other team from within while assisting a friend on the other side but the previous situation seems to be more prevalent.
Grifing can be funny.
I'm currently playing on a privet Minecraft PvP server. Everything is allowed because all of us know each other and no one would do something that would ruin the server. Watching the reaction of people when they come back and see their whole house under water or even full of TNT in the old versions where defusing wasn't possible... it's priceless.
But we do that just from time to time to troll each other and regular backups are made to prevent permanent damage from grifing. Ruining someones work, someones invested time isn't really funny. Grifing is funny when both parties agree to it, in other cases it's just pure evil. -,-
Both trolling and grifing can be art. It just depends on how you do it.
I'm currently playing on a privet Minecraft PvP server. Everything is allowed because all of us know each other and no one would do something that would ruin the server. Watching the reaction of people when they come back and see their whole house under water or even full of TNT in the old versions where defusing wasn't possible... it's priceless.
But we do that just from time to time to troll each other and regular backups are made to prevent permanent damage from grifing. Ruining someones work, someones invested time isn't really funny. Grifing is funny when both parties agree to it, in other cases it's just pure evil. -,-
Both trolling and grifing can be art. It just depends on how you do it.
*sigh*
If you want to be a dickhead, be a dickhead. Just don't try and justify it as somehow being virtuous, intellectually sound or inevitable. These threads always get the griefers to come out of the woodwork and justify themselves. Griefers: no matter what you say, most of us still think you're dickheads, OK?
Incidentally, if you're playing a team vs. team game and you're killing the other side, you're not griefing, no matter how unpleasantly or ridiculously you're doing it. That doesn't mean you're not being a dickhead, but if you're inherently following the aims of the game, it's not griefing.
If you want to be a dickhead, be a dickhead. Just don't try and justify it as somehow being virtuous, intellectually sound or inevitable. These threads always get the griefers to come out of the woodwork and justify themselves. Griefers: no matter what you say, most of us still think you're dickheads, OK?
Incidentally, if you're playing a team vs. team game and you're killing the other side, you're not griefing, no matter how unpleasantly or ridiculously you're doing it. That doesn't mean you're not being a dickhead, but if you're inherently following the aims of the game, it's not griefing.
My whole point is that you can't put griefing and trolling in the same basket, yet you insist on doing it.Vigormortis said:
Trolling is exactly the opposite of being a dick. You can't be a dick or you get banned before you can make any damage.
Yes, it is possible to create a secondary account and pretend you are really stupid and become a dick to everyone for the purpose of introducing a topic you want exposed. And how does being a dick in a forum harm anyone?
You would be creating that account so that everyone could mock "you" and point out why you are wrong. At best, you are allowing them to inflate their egos. No real harm is done, you probably get 10 pages of people calling you a retard until a mod closes the thread.
You point out there are baits. They basically drag themselves out of water.
How is it being a dick to point out there are baits in that community? People bite them and wrestle themselves into a atmosphere they can't breathe in. Human nature.
And nobody is innocent. I can't understand why would someone justify the existence of forums like Stormfront. If they are expressing their right to free speech, then I should be able to make use of my right to free speech and troll them.
I don't know what do you have against trolls. Have they hurt you or something?
Nobody is trying to say that griefing is a virtuous work.ms_sunlight said:
But I don't understand why you call griefers dickheads and don't make a honorable mention to the stupid people who make fools out of themselves so that I can watch it on YouTube?
No gratification, no griefing. It's that simple.
You're certainly within your rights to troll a forum like that, just as you'd be within your free speech rights to post incendiary and insulting comments on the facebook page of a kid who committed suicide (although the latter would certainly make you a dick)... but I don't really see why you would.ElPatron said:
I can understand the value of using people's own arguments against them to point out their hypocrisy. If you're dealing with reasonable, moderate people, then it can be an excellent way of illustrating a point. But if you're dealing with a forum like Stormfront, most of the people who read it will probably already have extreme enough views that you will never get them to reconsider their point of view. There's just nothing constructive that can come of it.
And furthermore, it's easy enough to think of trolling as being justified when you're dealing with a forum like Stormfront, where the foundation of it is built upon bigotry and douchebaggery. But let's say you're dealing with a much more normal forum. Let's say the Escapist. People here love games, but they can be rather passionate about them, and quick to overreact. In other words, this forum would be pretty easily trolled. Would you support a troll who comes here to create threads he knows will incite an instant flame war for his own amusement? Sow dissent, get people to argue amongst themselves, and laugh. This is the bread and butter of a troll, and with a forum like this, 95% of the work is done for you already; this forum practically trolls itself.
In the Early Days of the Internet, people who specifically tried to incite flame wars or arguments were quickly talked down or voted down, and told "that's not how we do things here." It's only in recent times that people have started to defend trolling, and I don't really understand why they would. It's not like the practice has gotten any less pointless or mean-spirited.
You might be better at trolling, but your spelling and grammar leave a lot to be desired.Sigma Van Lockheart said:
Because hijacking the planes in Battlefield 3 and parking them sideways, facing the wall or just at the end of the runway, so as soon as they move they crash or fall into the sea, is hilarious. I'm a terrible person, I know - but for the most part I don't grief, just on the odd occasion when I get bored of the game and need a little entertainment to motivate me to continue playing.
Schadenfreude. Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
This is why grieving, trolling, etc happens. It's brilliant.
This is why grieving, trolling, etc happens. It's brilliant.
This being the second time I have had to explain it so I?ll be blunt. 1. I was in a rush to type this out and thus I did not check my spelling. 2. I only troll people who deserve it (campers, bad players with a god complex, tf2 example: 5 snipers on one team)LittleBlondeGoth said:
Griefing is best summarised as "the behaviour of someone who was told, from the day they were born, they're only here because the condom broke."
Despite what Trolls claim, their behaviour is no different.
Now let us clarify something here; when behaviour becomes griefing.
1) If you have to use the phrase "it's not against the rules" to justify it, you're probably Griefing.
Yes, there is no rule to say you shouldn't spawn-camp, but it makes you a **** to do it. Exclusively using the most overpowered and unbalanced weapons, perks, etc. does not make you an awesome player, it makes you a cheap one.
2) If the behaviour is detrimental to the team, it is griefing.
Anyone who needs this explaining should, in theory, be too retarded to actually login, so we can move on.
3) If it's bullying, it's Griefing.
If you are deliberately picking on a specific player, stop it, and stop being a twat.
A point worth noting here is there is a difference between picking on, and simply engaging. If I'm playing a Point Capture mode and the same guy keeps rushing me from the same direction, it is hardly bullying. If I am going out of my way to hunt down and kill that specific player, it is.
4) If you set out to 'get a reaction', it's griefing.
Seriously, if your behaviour is motivated purely by the desire to see/hear someone get really pissed off, you are a complete and utter douchebag. Do us all a favour and torch your gaming hardware and rid us of your pestilence.
Another thing I'd like to point out is the key difference between Griefing / Trolling and Pranking. A Prank is essentially a physical joke. A JOKE: something the victim will find funny. Case in point, I once went into a friend's tree farm and 'inverted' all the trees so it looked like they were growing down from the ceiling. Pointless? Absolutely. Harmfull? Not really - it just made it a bit trickier to cut them down. Funny? 100%.
Finally, do not confuse Griefing with Shits & Giggles. It is not Griefing to go onto a Hardcore COD match and insist on melee-killing the opposing team. Nor is it Griefing to play a game without memorising the map, asking Google what the optimum build is, and generally refusing to play 'hardcore'. Something that a lot of 13 year old COD players forget is that people have these things called 'Lives', and they demand a lot of our time and attention. This means when I do play a game, I want to have fun, and if that means bringing my favourite shotgun when you think I should be using the Loltard Rifle then tough shit.
Despite what Trolls claim, their behaviour is no different.
Now let us clarify something here; when behaviour becomes griefing.
1) If you have to use the phrase "it's not against the rules" to justify it, you're probably Griefing.
Yes, there is no rule to say you shouldn't spawn-camp, but it makes you a **** to do it. Exclusively using the most overpowered and unbalanced weapons, perks, etc. does not make you an awesome player, it makes you a cheap one.
2) If the behaviour is detrimental to the team, it is griefing.
Anyone who needs this explaining should, in theory, be too retarded to actually login, so we can move on.
3) If it's bullying, it's Griefing.
If you are deliberately picking on a specific player, stop it, and stop being a twat.
A point worth noting here is there is a difference between picking on, and simply engaging. If I'm playing a Point Capture mode and the same guy keeps rushing me from the same direction, it is hardly bullying. If I am going out of my way to hunt down and kill that specific player, it is.
4) If you set out to 'get a reaction', it's griefing.
Seriously, if your behaviour is motivated purely by the desire to see/hear someone get really pissed off, you are a complete and utter douchebag. Do us all a favour and torch your gaming hardware and rid us of your pestilence.
Another thing I'd like to point out is the key difference between Griefing / Trolling and Pranking. A Prank is essentially a physical joke. A JOKE: something the victim will find funny. Case in point, I once went into a friend's tree farm and 'inverted' all the trees so it looked like they were growing down from the ceiling. Pointless? Absolutely. Harmfull? Not really - it just made it a bit trickier to cut them down. Funny? 100%.
Finally, do not confuse Griefing with Shits & Giggles. It is not Griefing to go onto a Hardcore COD match and insist on melee-killing the opposing team. Nor is it Griefing to play a game without memorising the map, asking Google what the optimum build is, and generally refusing to play 'hardcore'. Something that a lot of 13 year old COD players forget is that people have these things called 'Lives', and they demand a lot of our time and attention. This means when I do play a game, I want to have fun, and if that means bringing my favourite shotgun when you think I should be using the Loltard Rifle then tough shit.
