I don't understand griefing

[ThreeKneeNick]

Griefing is the truest form of video game interactivity - don't just play by the rules, make your own. And It's also interesting to observe people overreacting over something as benign as stuff happening in a video game. That spitting in someones food analogy ... please! Being angry at a video game griefer is like dreaming your girlfriend cheated on you, and being angry at her when you wake up.

 

[Xenowolf]

They enjoy people's angry/irritated reactions. Also, schadenfreude. Really, I thought this was common knowledge.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Because some sick bastards just want to see people suffer and watch he world burn. Its the same reason some murders gets their kicks out of mutilating people but expressed in a different form. The human mind is a dark and sadistic place its only a thin veil of social norms and pressures that keeps us from tearing each other part like deranged howler monkeys... that and the fact that not all of us are jackasses. I shall join you in shaking my fist impotently as griefers, the annoying pricks.

 

[hiphopstoner]

i cant tell you player bashing is a load off of insecurity of not being able to perfom at your best or better then the others... it also can occurr from boasting

 

[deleted_by_strongbad]

Because people are self-centric petty little shits. We all have that streak, in some it is more enforced/embraced than in others, and so at any time you interact with large pools of people you will encounter people who embrace that tendency to the point of wasting their own time just trying to make other people miserable for their own sadistic pleasure. Though the exact why has countless drives from their own day being terrible because of an obnoxious coworker to them just being a horrible person. Mostly, it just boils down to them being a miserable little shit.

 

[TitanAtlas]

Well i play a LOT in the minecraft free servers, and i hate griefers and griefing.... but i have to admit i have done it couple times.

But these times, were because i ended up in the worst rooms, with the worst Moderators ever. The most arrogant and retard people one could ever encounter. Out of irritation i ended up griefing a little :S

But in everywhere else, i always create and i can make cool stuff. The only problem with my buildings is that i'm always expanding them, making more and more, and that takes a lot of time

 

[WaruTaru]

For those who say it's just a game: Let's say you are playing a sport with your friends like basketball and someone comes in and stabs the ball. Yeah, you can get another ball, but I'm not going to just laugh that off. Ignoring the cost, you just ruined my mood and my friends' moods for a cheap laugh.

That's a bit different because Basketballs cost money. If someone, friend or stranger, came and destroyed your basketball, they damaged your property and owe you compensation.

Griefing doesn't force you to stop playing the game completely until you buy a new copy.

Yes, it is just a game. Greifing is also very avoidable. It's as easy as leaving the room or ignoring the person.

Stabbing the ball might have been a bit too much. It's probably more in line with griefing if the person tossed the ball up a tree and it got stuck there. It'll give the person some lulz as he watch our attempts at getting the ball back. Especially if we can't climb trees.

 

[Sansha]

That's not 'griefing', that's 'fucking around'.

Somehow I doubt the targets will agree with you. It's usually like that with griefing.

I disagree. What I see in the video is a guy fucking around, playing the game within the rules and social acceptance, but in a funny and 'not a single fuck given' style.

If I met this guy or someone just like him, I'd switch to his team and join him on his parade of lunacy. It looks like genuine fun.

 

[MammothBlade]

Griefing gets a reaction out of people... 'tis fun to be sadistic, in moderation.

I once found a huge stack of lava, then torched a whole forest in Minecraft and got away with it. Was cackling the whole time. Good thing I chucked the lava from my inventory.

 

[Vigormortis]

Happy to help. Though, I must say that I didn't even read more than two posts in this forum until just now.

Honestly, most people grief because they like to see some others suffer, or rather just revel in the misery of others. It is sad to say, but take some enjoyment from others misfortune, a "Haa, glad I'm not him" sort of mentality. If you don't get angry, they have no misfortune to gain happiness from.

However, when people are doing it online, they are typically venting; they can't get that release from griefing others in real life - they just can't bring them selves to do it to others, to there face, and witness the consequences of their actions (one of the few reasons why I sometimes like society - it frowns on this type of behavior and acts accordingly). Since they wont do it in real life, they do it on the internet, where they have absolute anonymity which gives them a safety net from the consequences of their actions, and the large audience of those around give them the validation of their actions.

Either that, or they are absolutely horrible human beings.

I'm inclined to believe the latter.

I look at it this way. If you were to take the actions of most internet/gaming trolls and griefers, and apply them to real world actions and people, most of those acts would land someone in jail. Whether for harassment or assault.

The irony here is, a lot of the people (even in this thread) who defend trolling and griefing, would be absolutely appalled if they saw someone doing the same thing to someone else in real life.

Consider this example: (one I think everyone in this discussion should consider)

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Let's say we have a friendly, casual game of chess going. Team play, round-robin style. Just a couple of people, some casual friends perhaps. One member from each time sits down to face one member of the other team, in turn, until everyone has faced everyone else.

Now, we're on; oh I don't know; game three. The two opposing players sit down to the table, shake hands, and wish each other good luck. They flip a coin to see who goes first, one making a joke about wishing he had a mirrored coin.

Black wins the flip.

Black makes the first move, opening with the classic Queen's Gambit. White recognizes the move and makes a quip about it.

Several minutes pass. Both players enjoying the game. Making idle chit-chat. Laughing and carrying on. Suddenly, one of the other players from Black's team comes over to the table. He stands there a moment, hovering over the side of the table. Watching.

The two players simply acknowledge his presence, say hello, and offer him a seat if he'd like to watch the game.

The guy doesn't say anything.

The two continue with their game, going back to their conversation. However, several moves later as Black is about to move his Queen, the third player quickly reaches down, grabs the Queen, and tosses it onto the floor.

Black looks up at him in shock. He doesn't understand what he's doing. He says, "Hey! What the hell man?"

The guy just smirks.

Black picks the piece back up and puts it back on the board, shaking his head as he does so. White isn't sure what to say.

Seconds later, the third player grabs the Queen again and again tosses it onto the floor. Black, getting rather annoyed at this point, says to him, "Damn it! Cut it out! What's your problem?" The guy, again, just smirks.

As Black reaches down to pick up the piece, the guy kicks it away from him. Black, being fed up at this point, stands up and confronts him. He says to him, "Okay. What's your deal asshole? Why are you being a dick?"

The guy gives a dry laugh and responds, "Chill out bro! It's just a game. You mad? Don't take it so seriously."

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Now, I want anyone in this discussion to consider this rather short story. I want you to consider how you'd feel if you were present in the situation. Whether you were the Black player, the White player, or just a side observer.

Then ask yourself this. How would you feel? How would you react? What would you say? What would you think of the third player?

If you would be angry and disgusted by the mans actions, then I hope you're not someone who's okay with online trolling and griefing, because that would be the epitome of hypocrisy.

If you would be okay with the mans actions, and even encourage him to continue, then you're just as big an asshole as he is. (and I'm willing to face Mod wrath to say that)

 

[Vigormortis]

It really depends. A deeply rooted pleasure in humans is to bring misfortune to others, assuming the misfortune isn't serious. It's funny to listen to people get so angry over little things, like being inconvenienced in a video game.

The thing is, that video is neither trolling nor griefing. At worst, it's maybe a breach of server rules. (because of the spray, depending on the server)

He's not ruining the game for others. He's not actively seeking out people to harass them. He's simply playing mind games. The only reason his actions are even working is because those players can't think with anything but what's in their pants.

Where griefing is fun for me is when me and my friend get tired of playing Battlefield 3 normally we do 'shenanigans.' Where he flies me to the enemies helicopters spawn, we wait for their helio to show up, I hop out, lay C4 on it and wait for someone of the other team to get in it and fly away. When they get far enough to think they're fine I blow the C4, hilarity ensues. The point of this little anecdote is to explain that my griefing isn't about pissing someone off, it's about playing the game in a hilarious way to calm me down after a couple of shitty rounds.

But again, as I've said with others, this is not trolling or griefing. You're simply playing the game in an inventive way.

Are you purposely singling someone out? Are trying to harass someone with the sole intent on ruining the game for them? Do you go out of your way to belittle someone, beyond the usual teasing and 'joking around'?

If not, you're not griefing or trolling. You're just playing the game.

If yes, then you're griefing and trolling. And, you would have done a LOT worse than what you described in your story. (more than likely, to your own team)

 

[ElPatron]

snip

I wasn't speaking on the outcome. No matter the variety. I was speaking on the act itself and the intent therein. If you are trolling or griefing someone, you're being a dick. Pure and simple. You are resorting to using some of the very worst aspects of human nature. It's one of the purest forms of Schadenfreude. You're not just enjoying watching someone in misery, you're actively causing that misery.

You are putting trolling on the same level as griefing.

Trolling is one of the best things that you can still enjoy in the internet. You are not being a dick, you are simply manipulating people.

Join a community. Rise trough their ranks. Make sure you create a persona for you that is easily identifiable. No contradicting opinions. Following the lead. Keeping the head down and nodding even at the most retarded bullshit you see.

Then explore the cracks. There are breaches in the reasoning of the sad idiotic people populating those communities. Your posts start conflicting others' opinions. Many will be bothered. You're exposing them in their own game. Part of the community sees your logic. They will follow you. You could become even more respected than the mods and admins.

The community splinters. Even if respecting the rules, admins will do some damage control and ban you. Outrage begins. Those forums go down in flames.

And you did not have to be a dick. You just had to make people see they are stupid.

Speaking your mind is not being a dick. You just convince yourself that you are spreading the truth, even if it's all an elaborate lie.

Also, may last point was an analogy. A loose analogy, admittedly, but not meant literally. It was more about saying these people are often someone who's miserable, for whatever reason, and decides the best way to make themselves feel better is to spread that misery around.

But it still struck me how you were complaining about bullies and how they are miserable.

 

[Vigormortis]

snipped

You really don't see the irony here? The hypocrisy? I mean, really?

Your little "tale" involves the idea of joining a community, essentially under false pretenses, with the sole intent on undermining and destroying it. You don't think that's a "dick move"?

I don't care what "method" you're using, that's still being a dick. What gives someone the right to do that to those people? Is it because they annoy you? Do you not agree with their ideals?

Here's a simpler, less dick-ish solution:

Just ignore them.

It's not that hard. If you see a forum, site, or community you don't like, then just stay the hell away from it. It's not your place to try to destroy it. To try to make the lives of those involved miserable. If they're ideas, thoughts, and personalities are so disingenuous as to "force" you to do what you describe, it's likely the community will destroy itself on its own.

Still sounds, to me, like you're excusing bad behavior. Behavior that, in the 'real world', would have heavy consequences.

 

[ElPatron]

snip

False pretenses? No. You just did not tell anyone about them.

Trolling isn't the act of pushing someone over the edge and then fight off anyone who tries to stop you. It's accelerating the speed at which they reach that edge.

People are people. You can't expect people to get along just because they are white nationalists, nazis, young Marxist pricks that bother you in real life and then have a circle jerk on "FUCK THE POLICE!" threads.

We are here on the Escapist and we don't pretend to like each other and agree with everyone here. Although we have been brought together by games.

Yet exposing core flaws on someone's hypocritical behavior is something we all do. Someone is meant to point them out one day or the other. Trolling is a mere acceleration of the process.

And you are not making anyone miserable if you tell them that mods and admins will try to hide things that are not flattering to them.

You are not making anyone miserable by splitting the community where they could jack off to their political views. We have political parties for that, no need for a forum.

Still sounds, to me, like you're excusing bad behavior. Behavior that, in the 'real world', would have heavy consequences.

Heavy consequences?

You mean like someone part of agency X infiltrating a corporation/political party and using deception climbing trough the ranks and finding incriminating evidence?

This example either gets people arrested, or at least stains their image.

Trolling leads to people who don't even like each other stop pretending they do. They aren't doing it to police the internet, but to laugh at people and their nature.

It's not bad behavior if you are respecting the rules. Trolling involves respecting the rules at all times to prevent bans for as long as possible.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Some people are born assholes. Watching others suffer because of something they did empowers them; gives them a high from a sense of dominance. I was an asshole punk at one point; not much to be proud of, but I know the type better than I wish I did.

Generally speaking, these sorts of assholes get chewed up and spit out in public unless they are already in a position of social dominance, so giving them an environment with relatively low costs of entry and anonymity to protect them from retribution, and you get the typical gaming griefing asshole.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

I don't always grief, but when I do, I make an artform of it, back when minecraft was in beta and dynamite lit when you hit it with anything and buckets still didn't work, I filled the hill under someone's castle with TNT, so that when they went to make a dungeon... they couldn't dig down without turning their castle, and the hill into a mess of random surviving bricks hanging surrealy over a crater... took me hours working in secrecy... then when it was discovered... detonated it... heh...

That and I was a master at training huge bunches of mobs on people in a few MMORPGs that could be fun, but you had to train A LOT of them to make it artistic, or draw a bunch from REALLY FAR AWAY.

But yeah there's griefing, and GRIEFING, you get griefed by me, you see something that took time and effort to set in motion unfolding, and it either pisses you off and blinds you to the beauty, or you laugh your ass off at how absurd the situation I've caused is... Most people laugh after the innitial WTF moment.

 

[hiphopstoner]

relevant answers i have more insight because I can get pretty heated over games.

 

[Bvenged]

Nothing gives me more joy in the world than griefing a bunch of annoying kids who treat a game of Call Of Duty so fucking seriously in a hardcore match. Even better, they deserve it.

But why?

Because they shout orders are you and act as if they are the best player in the world when they're just annoying little pricks. I was gaming online with a headset when I was 13, I never acted like half of the annoying kids you hear about on XBL do.

This. These days I only grief on games I despise and/or against individuals and/or groups whom I owe a personal vendetta against.

Such as the classic pleb who charges for an aircraft in BF3; at the first sign of damage, bails out and leaves several of his team hurtling towards the ground with not nearly enough time or altitude to salvage their lives from the impending doom. Happens more often than you'd think.

Back in '07 (14 years of age) I rarely wailed in game-chat as I stuck to the party / muted unknown players and I still had the common decency to keep my mucking around and grieving to custom games or the deserving.