I have proven that God exists

[Turtleboy1017]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

 

[Zedzero]

Don't do religion threads. They are generally looked down upon, and have a good chance of evolving into a flame war.

Fixed

 

[bmart008]

That's a theory alright, but that also means that there is a teapot orbiting the earth that I can't see, also that in some dimension Kate Beckinsale is in my bed right now begging for it. It doesn't seem very probably in this reality or any other... sadly.

 

[Maze1125]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

 

[feather240]

That's a theory alright, but that also means that there is a teapot orbiting the earth that I can't see, also that in some dimension Kate Beckinsale is in my bed right now begging for it. It doesn't seem very probably in this reality or any other... sadly.

Actually that has probably happened more time you can possibly imagine, and it probably will happen again and again. Just not to this you...

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

Even if it hasn't happened it will. It has too.

 

[jasoncyrus]

I was thinking about how we proved that there are an unlimited number of alternate universes.

When did we prove that??

The closest I can think of is the Heisenberg uncertainty Principle, which states that you can never be sure what something will do before it does it.

Quantum theory states that at any moment, any object has a 'probability cloud' around it containing all the possible states that it might change into in the next moment.

There is, however, no evidence or proof that once the particle 'chooses' its next state that there is any "alternative universe" created.

Also, even if your hypothesis was correct, and there were free-spawn alternative universes, nothing in one universe can affect the other universes (definition of universe)

Furthermore, if the argument is raised that "God transcends the universe, and is outside its 'walls' and 'rules'", then obviously 'God' is not bound by the 'spawn_multiverse' effect, and is still not proven.

I remember proving that god was mortal based on the fact that if he can affect our universe in any way then through that method we could create a device or surge to kill him.

 

[feather240]

I was thinking about how we proved that there are an unlimited number of alternate universes.

When did we prove that??

The closest I can think of is the Heisenberg uncertainty Principle, which states that you can never be sure what something will do before it does it.

Quantum theory states that at any moment, any object has a 'probability cloud' around it containing all the possible states that it might change into in the next moment.

There is, however, no evidence or proof that once the particle 'chooses' its next state that there is any "alternative universe" created.

Also, even if your hypothesis was correct, and there were free-spawn alternative universes, nothing in one universe can affect the other universes (definition of universe)

Furthermore, if the argument is raised that "God transcends the universe, and is outside its 'walls' and 'rules'", then obviously 'God' is not bound by the 'spawn_multiverse' effect, and is still not proven.

I remember proving that god was mortal based on the fact that if he can affect our universe in any way then through that method we could create a device or surge to kill him.

Yeah, but God could stop us.

Edit: He could also make it impossible for us to do that.

 

[Maze1125]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

Even if it hasn't happened it will. It has too.

No it doesn't.
For all the reasons I've already explained.

 

[feather240]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

Even if it hasn't happened it will. It has too.

No it doesn't.
For all the reasons I've already explained.

"Even if it hasn't happened it will" -My exact words-

The universe will exist infinitely so it will happen eventually.

 

[Maze1125]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

Even if it hasn't happened it will. It has too.

No it doesn't.
For all the reasons I've already explained.

"Even if it hasn't happened it will" -My exact words-

The universe will exist infinitely so it will happen eventually.

Not necessarily.
It's quite possible for an event to be possible for all time yet never happen, provided that the probability of it happening tends to zero.

 

[Flying-Emu]

You just proved that there's a chance for God to exist.

If there is a God, and he exists in another dimension, then he doesn't really exist, does he?

 

[Jon Etheridge]

I think that we're all just large clumps of a group of cells, molecules, and atoms who's ancestors figured out how to materialize, duplicate themselves, and then spread the process thus creating millions of creatures in an attempt to survive. Through the process of evolution this has created a being who is capable of manipulating it's environment, and developing complex technology and language. Humans have been on this planet only for thousands of years. The compounds that make up our bodies have inhabited the universe since the beginning of time.

Every animal on this planet is nothing more than the grouping of really tiny particles and cells working together to ultimately pass on genetic information. Human beings are the latest configuration. Thought is a necessary defense.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

Even if it hasn't happened it will. It has too.

No it doesn't.
For all the reasons I've already explained.

"Even if it hasn't happened it will" -My exact words-

The universe will exist infinitely so it will happen eventually.

Not necessarily.
It's quite possible for an event to be possible for all time yet never happen, provided that the probability of it happening tends to zero.

No. Assuming that there is infinite time to complete an event, there will always be a chance that the event will occur, like you stated before. If there is infinite time to complete an event, it MUST happen. No matter what, unless that even is completely impossible.

Elaborating, if I have infinite time to hit the jackpot of the lottery, and every time I win the odds of me winning are doubled, I will still eventually keep on winning no matter what happens, as I have infinite time to continue purchasing tickets, and infinite time to attempt to win. It will happen.

 

[Maze1125]

Prove me wrong, but if I'm correct time has no beginning and has no end. Doesn't that mean that everything that COULD happen, has already happened before, in the distant, distant past?

snip

Well I guess without prior known knowledge about how the Universe works its kind of impossible to answer the question.

That's a cop out.

You said "If there's any sort of possibility that an event can happen, and if you agree with me that time has no beginning and no end, logically and statistically that even would already have had to happen."

That is simply not true. Yeah, a given possible event might have already happened, but that is in no way the same thing as claiming it must have happened.

Even if it hasn't happened it will. It has too.

No it doesn't.
For all the reasons I've already explained.

"Even if it hasn't happened it will" -My exact words-

The universe will exist infinitely so it will happen eventually.

Not necessarily.
It's quite possible for an event to be possible for all time yet never happen, provided that the probability of it happening tends to zero.

No. Assuming that there is infinite time to complete an event, there will always be a chance that the event will occur, like you stated before. If there is infinite time to complete an event, it MUST happen. No matter what, unless that even is completely impossible.

Elaborating, if I have infinite time to hit the jackpot of the lottery, and every time I win the odds of me winning are doubled, I will still eventually keep on winning no matter what happens, as I have infinite time to continue purchasing tickets, and infinite time to attempt to win. It will happen.

If your chance of winning the lottery halved each time you played then, no, you would not necessarily win, even if you played for eternity.

Yes, if your chance stayed the same every time, or doubled, you would necessarily win if you played for eternity. In fact, you would win an infinite number of times.

But those are specific circumstances. If all you know about an event is that it is possible and that it has and infinite amount of time to happen in, that is not enough information to deduce that it is certain to happen.

 

[Misaek]

Well its probably the best point I have heard.

 

[Jaythulhu]

So, if god exists, that means that he doesn't, and that black is white and white is black. Fear the zebra crossings people, we're in danger now.

 

[domble]

Le sigh -.-;
Any time I see any of these worthless threads one image comes to mind [http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/3259/pointlessflamewars.jpg].

There. Now with that out of the way I do have to point out one thing. We have never proven that alternate realities exist. It is a theory, nothing more. Just like the big bang. We can not prove this shit so it is not fact.

I am telling you guys. A minimum post count before people can make topics may not be the best solution but at least it would help weed out most of the idiots who put no thought into these things.

Yeah flame wars, if you actually read the posts you'd see that its actually sparked a lot of discussion and some people have said that its an interesting way of looking at things.

You know no one twisted your arm, you don't have to join in if you don't want to.
This is actually the first piece of "flame" that's happened.

 

[DarkLordofDevon]

Your entire theory is based on the idea that there are even any alternative universes out there. And even if that were so, according to this theory, this would only explore derivates of our history - not change the very matter of existance so that Gods or magic could be formed.

Even if there's only one universe it's infinite so no matter how long it took there would eventually be God, but I don't think there is right now.

Sorry for the sensationalist title, but I really want to discuss this idea I've had.
Just for the record, I don't believe I'm now the major philosopher of our time lol. This is really just something to think about.

I was thinking about how we proved that there are an unlimited number of alternate universes.

This means that anything that can happen will happen.
Statistically speaking, doesn't this mean that there must be a God? Or at least something approximately the same?
I mean God is, what, a creature that can manipulate matter at the molecular level?
It would also mean that every religion is the right one.

I'm not a religious man, I don't really mind if there's a God or not. But I just think it's something worth wondering about.

What do you all think?

Wrong, some events have a quantum probability of 0 because due to the laws of physics it is impossible. EG - I never have or will spontaneously develop super powers. Reason? Whilst it is a possible event that could concievably occur, it is an effect without a cause. There is no possible cause that could transpire that could cause this event, hence the event, whilst being theoretical possibility, infact has a quantum probability of 0, hence never occurs.

I realised this myself recently, when dealing with the problem of impossible events in an infinite number of parallel universes. If it cannot occur within the laws of physics, it cannot occur. Ever. God does not follow the laws of physics. Ergo, god does not exist.

Whilst there may be beings of higher intelligence that created us, there is no all powerful god. Any creator must have a beginning and end like all other life in this universe, and is bound by the same laws. It cannot increase the speed of light. It cannot change the past due to paradoxes. It is a powerful being, true, but not a god.

Yes, yes you could gain super powers. We just don't have the time to think of an incredibly elaborate solution allowing it to happen, but if the universe is infinity smaller and larger than there could be a way. Even if the superpowers are just by weird chance and luck. If you can imagine it than it can happen.

The universe isn't infinite. It has finite space. And no, it is impossible. The laws of cause and effect dictate there must be a cause and effect. No human can gain mental control over fire or water simply because there is no logic behind it. Makes a good story, true, but is impossible since there aren't sufficient forces we can produce to affect the material world in such a way. No cause = no effect.

 

[DarkLordofDevon]

Sorry for the sensationalist title, but I really want to discuss this idea I've had.
Just for the record, I don't believe I'm now the major philosopher of our time lol. This is really just something to think about.

I was thinking about how we proved that there are an unlimited number of alternate universes.

This means that anything that can happen will happen.
Statistically speaking, doesn't this mean that there must be a God? Or at least something approximately the same?
I mean God is, what, a creature that can manipulate matter at the molecular level?
It would also mean that every religion is the right one.

I'm not a religious man, I don't really mind if there's a God or not. But I just think it's something worth wondering about.

What do you all think?

Wrong, some events have a quantum probability of 0 because due to the laws of physics it is impossible. EG - I never have or will spontaneously develop super powers. Reason? Whilst it is a possible event that could concievably occur, it is an effect without a cause. There is no possible cause that could transpire that could cause this event, hence the event, whilst being theoretical possibility, infact has a quantum probability of 0, hence never occurs.

I realised this myself recently, when dealing with the problem of impossible events in an infinite number of parallel universes. If it cannot occur within the laws of physics, it cannot occur. Ever. God does not follow the laws of physics. Ergo, god does not exist.

Whilst there may be beings of higher intelligence that created us, there is no all powerful god. Any creator must have a beginning and end like all other life in this universe, and is bound by the same laws. It cannot increase the speed of light. It cannot change the past due to paradoxes. It is a powerful being, true, but not a god.

No, because according to multi-verse theory each universe will have its own physics.

Second and third paragraphs are good, though.

Yes, but even if there are different laws of physics, god must control ALL. If there are multiple universes, the definition of a god is that he/she/it must have power over them all. Otherwise it is not omnipotent, and hence not a god. If it has power over a single universe, then it is an incredibly powerful being as I stated. But not a god. And besides, it cannot exist in THIS universe, so to all intents and purposes for us, there is no god since there is no external forces that can influence our universe.