I want to talk about Metal Gear Solid

[darkfox85]

... yeah I think about these games a little too much :-/

Hey. So do I. It's all good.
They tend to make you do that. Especially with the cryptic conversations at the end of each game.

Hey, it says in my inbox you wondered what if Solidus's plan had worked and other stuff but not in the thread. Did you edit your post or is it not displaying properly for me?

I was never a big fan of Solidus. Too "stock." This guy was supposed to be the president? I don't really buy it.

 

[King Aragorn]

... yeah I think about these games a little too much :-/

Hey. So do I. It's all good.
They tend to make you do that. Especially with the cryptic conversations at the end of each game.

Hey, it says in my inbox you wondered what if Solidus's plan had worked and other stuff but not in the thread. Did you edit your post or is it not displaying properly for me?

I was never a big fan of Solidus. Too "stock." This guy was supposed to be the president? I don't really buy it.

Just how I feel. I never bought him being the president....
Wasn't he put on the seat through The Patriots?

 

[King Aragorn]

-snip-
Mistake post.

 

[darkfox85]

Also, am I the only one who found MGS4 a bit too fan serviced?
And also,

Spoiler

Zero being made the main antagonist of the ENTIRE series without much interaction beforehand?

I?m not sure what you mean by ?fan serviced.? I thought fan service was all about skimpyness and whatnot. Or self-referential? I say no in either case.

As for:

Spoiler

Major Zero being made the real big bad

I do agree.

Spoiler

It comes out of left-field and just seemed to me to be a convenient way to tie the games together ? almost as if they?re making it up as they go. A lot of plotlines were dropped after all. That character never struck me as evil (accidentally or not,) and certainly not a power monger.

The whole thing really doesn't sit comfortably with me.

 

[King Aragorn]

Also, am I the only one who found MGS4 a bit too fan serviced?
And also,

Spoiler

Zero being made the main antagonist of the ENTIRE series without much interaction beforehand?

I?m not sure what you mean by ?fan serviced.? I thought fan service was all about skimpyness and whatnot. Or self-referential? I say no in either case.

As for:

Spoiler

Major Zero being made the real big bad

I do agree.

Spoiler

It comes out of left-field and just seemed to me to be a convenient way to tie the games together ? almost as if they?re making it up as they go. A lot of plotlines were dropped after all. That character never struck me as evil (accidentally or not,) and certainly not a power monger.

The whole thing really doesn't sit comfortably with me.

Fan service does not necessarily mean tits, but I guess it could be. MGS4's fan service is stuff like characters like Mei Ling, Vamp, being brought back for no apparent reason.
There is some skimpyness though, Naomi.

 

[darkfox85]

Also, am I the only one who found MGS4 a bit too fan serviced?
And also,

Spoiler

Zero being made the main antagonist of the ENTIRE series without much interaction beforehand?

I?m not sure what you mean by ?fan serviced.? I thought fan service was all about skimpyness and whatnot. Or self-referential? I say no in either case.

As for:

Spoiler

Major Zero being made the real big bad

I do agree.

Spoiler

It comes out of left-field and just seemed to me to be a convenient way to tie the games together ? almost as if they?re making it up as they go. A lot of plotlines were dropped after all. That character never struck me as evil (accidentally or not,) and certainly not a power monger.

The whole thing really doesn't sit comfortably with me.

Fan service does not necessarily mean tits, but I guess it could be. MGS4's fan service is stuff like characters like Mei Ling, Vamp, being brought back for no apparent reason.
There is some skimpyness though, Naomi.

Sorry to be a pain but most of the time sexy titillation is what fan service means.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Fanservice
Yeah there is Naomi and one or two pervy scenes, but never anything too crazy by videogame standards.

I didn?t mind seeing the old characters again. It makes sense to bring them back rather than introduce more characters who will need to be established. I say justified. I didn?t like Otacon?s ?change disk? codec call though.

 

[King Aragorn]

Also, am I the only one who found MGS4 a bit too fan serviced?
And also,

Spoiler

Zero being made the main antagonist of the ENTIRE series without much interaction beforehand?

I?m not sure what you mean by ?fan serviced.? I thought fan service was all about skimpyness and whatnot. Or self-referential? I say no in either case.

As for:

Spoiler

Major Zero being made the real big bad

I do agree.

Spoiler

It comes out of left-field and just seemed to me to be a convenient way to tie the games together ? almost as if they?re making it up as they go. A lot of plotlines were dropped after all. That character never struck me as evil (accidentally or not,) and certainly not a power monger.

The whole thing really doesn't sit comfortably with me.

Fan service does not necessarily mean tits, but I guess it could be. MGS4's fan service is stuff like characters like Mei Ling, Vamp, being brought back for no apparent reason.
There is some skimpyness though, Naomi.

Sorry to be a pain but most of the time sexy titillation is what fan service means.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Fanservice
Yeah there is Naomi and one or two pervy scenes, but never anything too crazy by videogame standards.

I didn?t mind seeing the old characters again. It makes sense to bring them back rather than introduce more characters who will need to be established. I say justified. I didn?t like Otacon?s ?change disk? codec call though.

Otacon's call was actually some of the fan service I enjoyed. It's just the fact that the amount of such fan service that doesn't do much just than being fan service kind of brings the game down, but I still enjoy it.

 

[darkfox85]

Oh I edited it, first post seemed a little long winded.

I actually enjoyed his character. I'd totally vote for him as president.
I think Solidus knowing that as a clone he wasn't going to live very long, wanted to leave a worthy legacy.

Unfortunately, he lacked the compassion of Solid Snake or Big Boss.

Spoiler

I didn't even really want to kill him at the end of 2.
His goal of eliminating control from the Patriots was fairly noble.
But his methods were just too ruthless and he ended up caring more about being viewed as the next Big Boss.

Haha! You think *you?re* long winded? Haha! I show you!

Solidus did have a presence and one or two cool gimmicks. I like the arms even though a lot of people accuse him of being a Dr Octopus rip. I don?t think that?s too fair. Personally, Solidus was just a touch one-dimension for me. There are definitely worse characters and characterisation, and I don?t want to seem too harsh.

Spoiler

I suppose both sides of the final fight in MGS2 were sort-of ?ends justify the means? positions. I do agree with Solidus I must say, even though I had a lot of sympathy for the words of the current president. (I?m talking about that power vacuum.) It?s an uncomfortable position for sure.

As for the fight against Solidus, I get the impression MGS2 was taking the piss out of its fanbase (quite cruelly at times.) The final fight made me feel a little empty and used. After all, we are technically fighting for the bad guys and we have to think of Olga?s baby and possibly Rose as well. Lesser evil? I can?t say.

And maybe I was hasty saying I couldn?t see him as president. He?s a faux-macho fantasy, a totally over-emotional blow-hard, suspicious of elites, and obsessed with ridiculous notions of liberty. He could totally get the Republican nomination.

 

[Padwolf]

I can't choose a favourite D: it's a tie between 3 and 4. I loved the box and inner peace conversation in the 3rd one, along with many other of the conversations that occur in that game. The music, I friggin love the music! I loved the ladder bit in MGS3. That was one hell of a good ladder. Hmm I'm not sure if I should be putting all these in spoiler boxes or not.

Spoiler: MGS4 and other spoilers just in case

I loved the microwave corridor scene. Never have I mashed a button so hard in my life, I hit it so hard I felt the pain all up my arm. It was amazing, just me standing up mashing this button shouting "COME ON SNAKE! YOU CAN DO THIS! WE CAN DO THIS!" I loved going back to Shadow Moses, I loved everything in MGS4. The ending brought me to tears. The final boss fight was great. The other boss fight between REX v RAY was fantastic.

I loved the final boss in MGS3. I didn't want to pull that trigger. I was sitting there thinking "oh god, the game is going to make me push it, isn't it? I can't do this! It hurts so much!" I cried couldn't help myself. Also The Sorrow was one hell of a creepy boss fight. Especially if you ate vulture meat and you'd see a soldier there saying "you ate me!"

I avoided all spoilers possible throughout the series, so when I got to the Psycho Mantis fight in MGS1, I didn't know what to expect. It scared the crap out of me! I didn't know what to do or how to do it quick enough at first. Also, Raiden grew on me in MGS2. I just really didn't like Rose. I shot a seagull once and she went on and on about it and wouldn't let me save my game. Also her "Jack, do you remember...?" I sat there thinking "Listen, I'm trying to save things here! Leave me alone woman!"

I love those games so much. I feel like playing through them again. One day I will get my hands on the earlier Metal Gear games, I can't wait.

 

[King Aragorn]

I want MGS3 like codec. It was awesome, with tons of convo's, funny, serious, informative..

 

[wooty]

Psycho Mantis, his abilities, his fight, his music, his views on the world. That character just spoke to me in many ways.

 

[Spikethebloody]

Damn that dark cave in MGS3 to hell. I think I spent 2 hours in there.
I'm excited for GZ. Mostly because it's building upon PW, which I loved. Most of PW's short comings were system limitations.

My favorite? hmm...
Either MGS3/MGSW.

And oh, Portable Ops, canon or not?

I know what you mean about the cave when i first got the game a couple of hears ago it was impossible to turn the brightness up on my TV i must of been i that cave for at least 3 hour's, without being able to see a thing, the only way i could get through the cave was looking at the map to find were the tunnels where and just walking up against the walls until i found them.

But yeah my favorite game is still MGS3

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I hate MGS4, and I'm happy everyone here is giving it the criticism that it deserves.

I was a MGS fan since 2004, when I first played and loved MGS2.
I then played MGS1 and enjoyed it.
I was critical of MGS3, but I still enjoyed it.
I played Metal Gear Acid 1 and 2, which (despite being very different) were quite entertaining.

Then I read about the story of MGS4 after it was finally released (I had no idea if would ever get a PS3 at the time), and was kind of disappointed. But I figured "hey maybe the gameplay is ok."

Then I got to play it. The story was was worse than expected and the gameplay was awful, and whilst I never criticized the cutscene length of the previous games, I did so for MGS4.

And so I was thrown off of MGS and Kojima, but....I do kind of want to try Rising Revengeance.

Sorry to be a pain but most of the time sexy titillation is what fan service means.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Fanservice
Yeah there is Naomi and one or two pervy scenes, but never anything too crazy by videogame standards.

I didn?t mind seeing the old characters again. It makes sense to bring them back rather than introduce more characters who will need to be established. I say justified. I didn?t like Otacon?s ?change disk? codec call though.

Yes that is the original definition of fanservice, but it has evolved to mean: "things meant to entertain fans deliberately without regards to the plot or being necessary at all." Think the scenes in Smash Brothers Brawl that Yahtzee described as fanfiction.

I have no problems with sexiness and nudity, it's been with the series since Solid.

But when you get excessive callbacks (ie. "homage") in 3rd and 4th games, it becomes kind of ridiculous. MGS2's callbacks made sense because they hinted at the final revelation.

...Though ironically, one of the most fanservice ridden parts of 4th game was actually the only part I really enjoyed (piloting Metal Gear Rex)


___________

In regards to other things:

The fanbases hatred of Raiden was excessive, I object to the reason Raiden was included (MGS staff got a letter from a female gamer who said essentially that Snake was ugly and old), but he really worked well for how he was implemented.

 

[King Aragorn]

What

Damn that dark cave in MGS3 to hell. I think I spent 2 hours in there.
I'm excited for GZ. Mostly because it's building upon PW, which I loved. Most of PW's short comings were system limitations.

My favorite? hmm...
Either MGS3/MGSW.

And oh, Portable Ops, canon or not?

I know what you mean about the cave when i first got the game a couple of hears ago it was impossible to turn the brightness up on my TV i must of been i that cave for at least 3 hour's, without being able to see a thing, the only way i could get through the cave was looking at the map to find were the tunnels where and just walking up against the walls until i found them.

But yeah my favorite game is still MGS3

What I did was find the torch hidden somewhere, the biggest annoyance though was if you feel into the wrong place, AKA the water, it was lost forever, and all you had were your cigars, and Snake's adjusting eyes.

 

[CriticalMiss]

Hiding in boxes, the best part of any MGS game! Admit it, you've had a go at cardboard stealth.

My favourite game is probably MGS1 even though my copy of the game was buggy and I got stuck on that memory-metal keycard puzzle as the card wouldn't change shape I remember the moment I realised I could blow walls down with C4 and was amazed at such incredible game mechanics. Ah memories...

I also remember a horrendous PSP game called, I think, Metal Gear Ac!d (seriously, '!' not 'i'). I wish to erase that experience from my brain space.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Here is a direction for the thread!

MGS3 >>>>>>>>>>>> MGS1

I don't understand why everyone seems to think MGS3 is the best one...

• 
  [li]You have to move really slow or your footsteps become audible (which is annoying);[/li]
  [li]Constantly rooting through SLOW-loading menus to switch your camo, eat, heal wounds, etc;[/li]
  [li]So many gimmicky game mechanics that take away more fun than they add to it (hunting/eating, wound healing, camouflage management, hiding in grass, noise/visibility levels, etc);[/li]
  [li]A predictable plot which is heavily derived from James Bond movies (this is even lampshaded in the actual game);[/li]
  [li]Really bizarre characters that break immersion, like the guy who controls bees, the really old sniper who can photosynthesise, a crazy Russian cosmonaut whose body has melted into his spacesuit, etc;[/li]
  [li]Very long periods where you're slogging through the jungle/forest and nothing much happens;[/li]
  [li]Comparatively few mysteries or surprising twists (which is in my opinion the main draw of MGS);[/li]

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Loved MGS3 the most. Whenever a 'suggest a spinoff game' topic comes up I'm the first to theorize a game where you play as FOX-HOUND (read Last Days of Foxhound if you haven't, it's great) or the Cobras during their time.

Looking forward to Ground Zeroes. However, given that we're now busily filling in the time between Snake Eater and the first game while Raiden remains the hero of the 'future setting' past MGS4, perhaps a 3D remake of the original would not be out of the question? Please? You could even include an in-joke about the truck starting to move.

One interesting debate I got into once was the prowess of the Shagohod in MGS3 compared to the Metal Gears that came after it. While Granin and most of the people I talked to considered the Metal Gears superior, after seeing the Shagohod in action I wasn't sure. It was considerably faster than any Gear in the series, even the Gekkos, and was able to function fine as a war vehicle to defend itself even after losing the nuke-launching components in the rear half.

Someone then told me that the Metal Gears, being bipedal instead of treaded, have better mobility on rough terrain and could always dodge incoming nukes as well as fire back from anywhere in the world, but I still wasn't convinced; if you got a warning it would be easy for either one to get out of the way, and again the Shagohod can do it faster. A small flat stretch of land isn't exactly rare even in countries without roads, and good luck lifting your average Metal Gear with helicopters as was done with the Shagohod. So which do you consider the superior nuclear death-mobile?

 

[Casual Shinji]

You know the cave with the dogs in it? Yeah, screw that place.

It doesn?t help you have to go through that place about four times. Pain in the arse. It took until maybe my third play through to realise if you equip that handkerchief, the wolfs don?t attack you.

I think you could even get the wolves to pee on you which would give you their sent. Don't quite remember how though. I think you had to punch the puppy, then hide in your box, and the puppy would pee on it or something.

OT: I'm gonna be a weirdo here and say that I really liked the codec conversations in MGS1. It starts off as just standard mission briefings and tutorials, but it becomes more and more part of the actual plot, revealing all sorts of conspiracies and secrets. It's pretty common now in the series, but the first time I played it I was on the edge of my seat.

Also, Psycho Mantis making my controller move. *mind blown*