If Halo had been a PC game...

[Woe Is You]

Hooray for elitism!

It actually works on both sides of the fence. Flippant comments on "I wouldn't have liked it" or "It would've sucked" just based on the thought experiment that it could've been released on another platform first... when the fact is that Bungie didn't do a "traditional" (at that time) FPS during the Marathon days, so we're assuming that they'd be doing things the same way other developers on the PC/Mac would based on what knowledge here?

 

[Anticitizen_Two]

Hooray for elitism!

It actually works on both sides of the fence. Flippant comments on "I wouldn't have liked it" or "It would've sucked" just based on the thought experiment that it could've been released on another platform first... when the fact is that Bungie didn't do a "traditional" (at that time) FPS during the Marathon days, so we're assuming that they'd be doing things the same way other developers on the PC/Mac would based on what knowledge here?

Well, my post only contained three words, so I really fail to see how you managed to get those flippant comments out of it, especially when you consider that I don't think that or wish to imply that I do think that. All I'm saying is that claiming that Bungie dumbed down their games for consoles is a big dose of good ol' PC elitism. And before more assumptions are made, I should say that I don't like Halo and that I am a PC gamer.

 

[Woe Is You]

Well, my post only contained three words, so I really fail to see how you managed to get those flippant comments out of it, especially when you consider that I don't think that or wish to imply that I do think that.

I'm meaning this thread in general, not your post in particular.

There's a good dose of PC elitism in that argument you mentioned but there's also elitism in thinking that it would surely have sucked had it been, say, a Mac exclusive first.

It's like people saying how genre X (say, fighting games) can't work on a PC because they're hard to play on the keyboard while completely forgetting that you can use almost any controller on a PC. Myopia mixed with elitism.

 

[CmdrGoob]

If Halo were a PC game, it would have had to compete with Half-Life and it's insanely good collection of mods and it wouldn't have done anywhere near as well.

 

[Anticitizen_Two]

Well, my post only contained three words, so I really fail to see how you managed to get those flippant comments out of it, especially when you consider that I don't think that or wish to imply that I do think that.

I'm meaning this thread in general, not your post in particular.

There's a good dose of PC elitism in that argument you mentioned but there's also elitism in thinking that it would surely have sucked had it been, say, a Mac exclusive first.

It's like people saying how genre X (say, fighting games) can't work on a PC because they're hard to play on the keyboard while completely forgetting that you can use almost any controller on a PC. Myopia mixed with elitism.

Oh, I'm very sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying in your post. People making unfair assumptions about other people has always been a pet peeve of mine.

I can see what you're saying though. Elitism is so commonly linked with PC gaming, but console gamers can be very elitist as well.

 

[oppp7]

I think it would be the same game with slight changes in gameplay, nothing else. I would argue how only 2 weapons and a linear game is better, but I don't see the point anymore. Besides, that's just my opinion.

Also, you forgot the best part of this what-if situation: Xbox losing its biggest cash cow. How would the Xbox have done without Halo? Probably not well. Without a killer app and no pre existing fanbase the Xbox probably would have flopped.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think the more interesting question is how would it have fared if it actually continued it's initial development. As others have said, it was originally not only a RTS (then a RTS/3rd person shooter hybrid) but it was a Mac only title. I think we can all agree that it wouldn't be as popular as it became on the Xbox, but would it's existence have elevated Mac gaming at all? Would it have continued what Marathon started in bringing Mac gaming to the mainstream?

As to the OP, I really think that's a giant ball of assumptions that can't really be accounted for. I would imagine Bungie had at least the basic ideas in mind for Halo prior to it's move to console development and while the change certainly had some impact you're making it sound as if it would have been essentially a completely different game.

 

[chuckman1]

I would try a demo at the very leaset.

 

[Kaymish]

if Halo was a PC game we would only have Wii vs PS3 console wars because the X box 360 would never have been developed because the Xbox would never have sold in sufficient numbers

halo sold the X box and if it was never developed for it we would live in a far happier world where controllers are not too big to fit in your hands and you don't have to be pissed that what you want is on the other console

 

[Agayek]

Why exactly would the 2 weapon only system have been dropped? i don't play many FPS on the PC but it seems like it makes sense and is more realistic, though i suppose realism isn't a huge part of the halo series, regardless is it that uncommon of a aspect in PC FPS's?

Before Halo: CE, in every shooter you could carry the entire armory of the game around without batting an eye. Halo is the very first game to limit how many weapons you could carry at a time.

 

[Woe Is You]

Why exactly would the 2 weapon only system have been dropped? i don't play many FPS on the PC but it seems like it makes sense and is more realistic, though i suppose realism isn't a huge part of the halo series, regardless is it that uncommon of a aspect in PC FPS's?

Before Halo: CE, in every shooter you could carry the entire armory of the game around without batting an eye. Halo is the very first game to limit how many weapons you could carry at a time.

That isn't answering the main question there. Yes, you could, but then again... before Half-Life the FPS didn't even try to start integrating the actual plot into the game.

 

[Yarkaz]

After reading your description of this Halo PC game of yours, I've decided that you wish Halo was more like Half Life. Aside from non-linear levels, everything you described seems like Valve's favorite child of a game. I'm quite glad that Halo wasn't more like a PC shooter, because it would likely end up a clone of other PC shooters, and the whole thing would have collapsed in a heap of unoriginality.
I understand that, a you stated in your original post, you aren't trying to bash Halo, but I'm honestly glad that this is nothing but hypothetical thoughts.

 

[Bonkekook]

Halo would not have been anywhere near as popular as it is now. Halo was THE GAME to buy that sold the Xbox. People who were mad at Nintendo made it better than it was because they needed to justify jumping ship.

 

[Blind0bserver]

Well, personally I've always thought that a lot of Halo's success early on that game the franchise the steam it needed to get to the point that it's reached today has a lot to do with it being a launch title for the Xbox.

So, Erana, because everyone else is probably discussing the merits of what could have been if Bungie had more creative freedom, I propose this hypothetical; would Halo's popularity have become as widespread as it is now if it was released as a PC game? After all, Halo launched with the Xbox and the fact that it had very decent multiplayer early on in the console's life cycle made it very widespread. With that factor out of the equation would it still have had the same impact? Would the franchise have even become this strong?

 

[Agayek]

That isn't answering the main question there. Yes, you could, but then again... before Half-Life the FPS didn't even try to start integrating the actual plot into the game.

I'm pretty sure the actual limitation of weapons was made to simplify the control scheme for the consoles. If it was designed as a PC-exclusive, it's unlikely that that aspect would have been included as well.

That's not to say that no console FPS would come up with it ever, just that it wouldn't be in Halo.

 

[rees263]

Why exactly would the 2 weapon only system have been dropped? i don't play many FPS on the PC but it seems like it makes sense and is more realistic, though i suppose realism isn't a huge part of the halo series, regardless is it that uncommon of a aspect in PC FPS's?

Before Halo: CE, in every shooter you could carry the entire armory of the game around without batting an eye. Halo is the very first game to limit how many weapons you could carry at a time.

I'm guessing this is partly to do with the controls. Typically on the PC you would use the number keys to choose weapon, easily allowing a quick selection from your stockpile (1 or 2 keystrokes at most to whip out any weapon) or use the mouse scroll which is very fast. On a console controller you are usually limited to cycling through weapons, so unless they mapped 5+ buttons to weapon selection (a horrid idea) 2 weapons makes it much easier.

The alternative (though I don't know many true FPS that do this) is to have a menu for weapon selection, but that really breaks the flow of a fast paced shooter. Possibly something like Bioshock where you hold the button to bring up a selection wheel, or like Fallout 3, where you bring up your regular menu and pick your weapon. RE5 ( I know it's not an FPS but bear with me) was a bit awkward because the item menu didn't pause the game which is a pain, but you could use the D-pad as a quick select for up to 4 items so that mostly made up for it.

EDIT: Just realised this post sounds a bit patronising, which wasn't the intention. I'm sure you know all this I was just bringing it up for discussion.

 

[Erana]

Also...
"Halo was "meh" because of:

-Lazy Opinionpeer-to-peer hosted online multiplayer that is UNDENIABLY ???inferior.To what?
-repetitive musicOpinion without quantifiable support
-repetitive enemiesOpinion without quantifiable support
-repetitive levelsOpinion without quantifiable support
-passive AI (compare/contrast to FEAR's AI)The first Halo came out years before, on the Xbox. Define, "Passive" in this context. Also, F.E.A.R.'s AI was considered exceptional and won awards. When attempting to measure anything, it is general practice to compare the thing in question to what is considered average or standard.
-terrible vehicle controls (inexcusable considering how a Gamepad would have advantage here)Opinion without quantifiable support
-meandering plot that you can't follow and can't care about without reading the expanded fictionDefine, "Meandering" in this context. Again, opinion without quantifiable support; Where does the storytelling sit when compared to other, similar, products that were released at the same time? Is the expanded fiction a negative here?
-Poor immersion with a protagonist that characterises just enough for disconnect, yet not enough to feel any empathy.Opinion without quantifiable proof
-uninspired weapons"Opinion without quantifiable proof

As I have said before, people are fully entitled to disagree with me, but I will not listen to someone who insists that their opinion is fact.
If one has an aspect of an opinion that hasn't been addressed yet in a thread, they should go ahead and mention it, but under no circumstances insist that an opinion is fact.* Even when one has good reason to think what they do, they shouldn't insist that it is true; conversely, one has to be able to admit that they are wrong. (Which is one of the hardest things to do)

*[small]There's the exception to this when it comes to humor, of course.[/small]

-Multiplayer should be hosted on dedicated servers. if you don't now what that means then i can't be bothered explaining them to you
-no, the music WAS repetitive, the same orchestral riffs over and over again and overused as well throughout the series. I can't support this without making a 15 video montage of game segments. just because I don't have the ability to back up my assertion doesn't mean I am wrong
-Yeah, the flood weren't repetitive at ALL. Come on, half way through Halo if felt like a chore to kill the enemies, they got boring long ago. just a case of "shoot it till it dies".
-yes, they WERE repetitive levels, or at least they weren't much to distinguish them.
-The AI was good for console standards, but you can run away or right past them. Half Life (came out 3 years before) had enemies like the marines and Black ops guys who would attack, run away, chase you down. They were fast, aggressive and you couldn't just sit around in cover waiting for things to cool off.
-Vehicle controls were dumb as they tried to emulate your on-foot controls. I.e. press up on the thumbstick to accelerate and you turn in whichever direction you are looking, that is retarded. Why not controls like in GTA, forward on left thumbstick = accelerate, while left/right on same joystick turns left/right. it would have meant you can look around while driving and be far easier to manoeuvre.
-took a long time to tell a relatively simple sci-fi war story and was terrible in explaining why in the hell this ring was full of flora and fauna, who I was, why was I here, who are these covenant I am fighting, why should I care? The worst part if all the characters seem to know what is going on but I the player don't. It's a weapon, what? Who wants to activate what? I still don't know who these covenant are?
-I can't be bothered explaining the importance of immersion vs characterisation. Either leave the protagonist a blank slate with basic persona like Half Life's Gordon Freeman or FEAR's Point Man... or go all out and flesh him out like Solid Snake or Commander Shepard. This half assed Master Chief is great for marketing, bad for gameplay.
-Yeh, shotgun, submachine gun, pulse blaster, rocket launcher.. yawn. The most interesting weapon was the pistol only because it was overpowered and stood out by default. They didn't sound cool, or play all that interesting. Games like Half Life and Opposing force had bio-alien weapons that did things other than just pull trigger to shoot like the barnacle, the homing hornet gun with small capacity but regen ammo, Charge up gauss gun, satchel charges, tripmines.

Though I suppose on reflection Halo weapons weren't that boring, the plasma weapons no-reload but over-heat was kinda interesting, and sticky plasma grenades were good when you were ever able to use them. But they didn't change how most of the gameplay was just point-shoot and the weapons were so unsatisfying to use. Why is it such a chore to get any kills with the plasma pistol? I get it, plasma to chew away shield, then high velocity to finish them off. It jsut never was that engrossing for such long game.

I was also really surprised to learn that Master Chief in 7 foot tall. You get absolutely no impression of your size or physicality in the game, I can see what they were going for at times... but it just didn't deliver.

Finally, you act as if because my opinion is not a fact it is somehow worthless. You asked for your opinions so DON'T GIVE ME SHIT when I give you the opinion you asked for!

"DON'T GIVE ME SHIT when I give you the opinion you asked for!"
I asked for a hypothetical on what people thought a PC halo game would be like. You gave me your opinion on the actual Halo franchise instead. Not only did you make an extremely off-topic post that proved that you had read neither the opening post nor the rest of the contents of the thread, but you did so in very poor form. Even though you have fleshed out your previous post, you still do so using mostly opinions. I mean, Duke Nukem didn't have music at all, save for menus and title screens. Is that supposed to be better or worse? What are you comparing it to?
If you're going to point out that something about a game bothers you, it is typically better to approach it by saying, "I did not like the music in Halo; I found it very repetitive." That way, you're not arguing. Because there is no point in arguing about whether Halo is a good or bad game because people can only compare opinions. And there's no right or wrong opinions.

As for comments about repetitive level design being about opinion... well, remember how a lot of the scenes had you doing the same thing at least 3 times? The library? Going back the same way you came in The Gun Pointed at the Head of the Universe? There's plenty of quantifiable proof that the original Halo's level design was about using cut and paste above all else.

If Treblaine were on-topic in voicing his opinions on Halo:CE, what you just posted here is how he should have gone about doing it. Still, there's no need to say such hostile things as, "Halo's level design was about using cut and paste above all else."
What I'm getting at here isn't about Halo, but about how one goes about posting on the Escapist, or for that matter, making a civil argument altogether.

 

[BaldursBananaSoap]

Well, Halo 2 and 3 would be expansion packs, and ODST would be a free mod.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Hmm, I'll bite. Or at least add some of my own musings to yours Erana.

If the hypothetical Halo game was a PC exclusive I would hope the levels were more expansive, or at least, if not that, then disguised so it's not as obvious that they are linear. An example of that, for me is Half-Life 2. It's linear as all hell, but the general design of the game does wonders to "hide" that fact from the player. I don't feel trapped in that game the same way I do in Halo (or CoD4 for that matter).
If the recreated the levels in a better way that would go a long way to making me actually like the game. And it would be a given that just copy pasting the levels in reverse is a no go.

Now, I'll admit it's been a few years since I played Halo CE, so I might be off base here, but as I recall it most encounters with the baddies consisted of me entering a new area and then having to clear it and then doing whatever objective I had. It seemed very very disjointed. The action didn't flow. It was just seperate encounters and then on to the next.

I would hope that the hypothetical PC game would either have been more sandboxy like Crysis or at least disguised the "encounter syndrome" better. Again, Half-Life 2 is pretty much the same, but in that game it's much more elegantly executed. So better design on this would also make me much more likely to play the game.

Those two points are the major factors in my dislike for the game, and as I find that Killzone 2 is pretty similar in those respects I assume that it's becasue of some console property of FPS games. So I'd hope the hypothetical game was better designed.

And as a final nit pick I would hope that they stopped colour coding the enemies. I mean, what is it? American Ninja? And leave out the little whiny pigs or whatever. I kid you not, that attempt at comedy or whatever it was was a major factor in my dislike for Halo CE.