IGN's Top 10 Ways to Fix JRPGs...

[Emphraim]

Am I the only person who likes turnbased combat in RPGs? This seems to be the biggest complaint of a lot of people who seem to see turn base combat as some great flaw. Also, why does every game seem to need multiplayer now?

 

[Graustein]

I really think that Turn-Based Combat needs to be abandoned. It was created to make a working battle system for larger games in the 16-bit era, but those days are over. We have the technology to create really good battle systems.

Except that there are still many people who enjoy turn-based games immensely, and there are many excellent games with turn-based combat. Some of my personal favourites:

Fire Emblem. Advanced Wars. Chrono Trigger. Final Fantasy Tactics. Earthbound. Mother 3. Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Heroes of Might and Magic. Pokemon. Civilization. Golden Sun.

I loved each and every one of these games, and not once have I lamented the fact that I couldn't order my little dudes around in realtime. Here's an idea: If you don't like turn-based combat, don't play games with turn-based combat. I don't know why it is such a hard concept to comprehend, but there are people who like things you don't. You can come up with all the arguments in the world as to why turn-based combat is objectively inferior to , but it's not as though people are going to hear them, stop, and think:

"oh my, I guess I was wrong after all! All those years I spent playing an objectively bad system and all it took was you telling me how much it sucks to realise that it sucks! I guess I wasn't having fun all that time, after all!"

Yeah, no.

/rant

On-topic: IGN are homogenising JRPGs at best and have very few useful things to say. One thing in particular I'd like to point out, with regards to number 8. Last time I played a game with NPCs who mouthed their words, I fell so far into the uncanny valley that I needed a map to find the next dialogue option. In any case, Ace Attorney (which, while not a JRPG, heavily uses the "cardboard cutout" method) would have lost an incredible amount of its charm were its characters poorly-rendered 3D models. This argument smacks of the kind of thing Wind Waker detractors say: if it's not realistic-looking, it's lazy.

 

[dagens24]

I used to love JRPGs when I was a kid... Then I grew up.

 

[Luca-Pellegrinelli]

Remove turn based combat is really the only thing I'd change in JRPGs.

And IGN needs to stop cumming over everything that has multiplayer and shitting on everything that doesn't

Fuck multiplayer.

You sir are now my new favorite person in the world, I was thinking pretty much the EXACT same thing. It's refreshing to hear that there are some people who aren't mindlessly salivating for online gun wanks

 

[Julianking93]

Remove turn based combat is really the only thing I'd change in JRPGs.

And IGN needs to stop cumming over everything that has multiplayer and shitting on everything that doesn't

Fuck multiplayer.

You sir are now my new favorite person in the world, I was thinking pretty much the EXACT same thing. It's refreshing to hear that there are some people who aren't mindlessly salivating for online gun wanks

Yea! *hugs*

 

[Louis343]

I think there broken beyond repair.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Why do people not understand that certain people like JRPGs, it's like a consoletard saying that oblivion needs guns and a better shooting aspect.

Agreed.

I for one detest JRPGs, but there's nothing they're really doing wrong. It's just not my cup of tea, and I can understand that.

For some people, if they don't like something they think its factually shit, even if they can't actually give any valid reasons why.

Opinions people

 

[Axeli]

I been reading some of the comments, and I can't help but think whenever someone agrees with removing save points "Stop being shit?"

I think they should be removed not because I'm "shit", but because there really isn't any real reason to have them. At least not one that I can think of. I can think of tons of reasons not to have them, but not a single reason to keep them. Perhaps you can supply one?

When used properly, they can help control and improve the pacing of the game, both in combat and narrative. It sort of destroys the supposed feeling of being in a hostile environment of a dungeon if you can save anywhere and anytime because then there is no risk involved.

That's artificial difficulty. I shouldn't dread fighting a group of monsters just because the last save point was thirty minutes ago. I should dread fighting them because they will be challenging. Many of the fights in Dragon Age: Origins were very challenging, and being able to save at any time did not diminish the threat they posed to me. Arguably having save points in a game destroys pacing, as any time you die you are sent back several minutes rather than being allowed to come back just a few feet away. I don't see this as an adequate reason to keep save points in the game.

No it isn't. Being able to save anywhere is what artificially balances difficulty. Never having to worry about failure when you can just quick save every minute is what breaks a game. Yes, having to replay a couple parts is annoying, but it's supposed to be annoying, it's the punishement for failure. And it makes a success worth something.

Save grinding - that is saving before every bit difficult part and every other minute so that failure means nothing and you over come the challenges of the game with cheap trial and error rather than skill or dedication... That's a broken and challengeless system. Not to mention that without a fear of failure, there's no satisfaction of success.
Say what you will, but it does water down the experience.

There's no point in hard difficulty if you can just save grind your way through the game. Infinite tries for any single part of the game without any retribution is pretty close to just having god-mode as you are as perfectly immortal either way. And if even save grind doesn't make it a breeze to get through the game, then the difficulty is way off.

Why do people keep acting like these guys were saying "lol al JRPGs sux an u r fags for liking them"? They openly admitted to enjoying JRPGs. This was just their opinion on how they think the genre could improve.

For some parts, yes, but some bits of their knowledge on the subject seem pretty off. Maybe due to having two writers some points make sense while other's only get a "Huh?".

Number 2, for one, lists clichés I haven't seen for ages, not in JRPGs anyway.

It's also a bit weird to constantly cite new WRPGs of RPGs done right when they fit many of their points better than most JRPGs do.

 

[ShoMinamimoto314]

I happen to enjoy the Tales series. (even if I've only played Symphonia and Vesperia) They have single console multiplayer.D:

 

[NeutralDrow]

I happen to enjoy the Tales series. (even if I've only played Symphonia and Vesperia) They have single console multiplayer.D:

Yep, but not online. I honestly can't see how online could possibly work with any of the games.

On the other hand, if more JRPGs had standard multiplayer options, that could work much, much better. Symphonia's multiplayer was difficult to get used to, but I'm assuming Vesperia's was all right. Haven't played it, myself, but <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz38e5-wXgs>Abyss implemented it decently enough (though those two are far better than I could be).

 

[Knight Templar]

Apart from the thing about multiplayer those are good points, but could be applied to many diffrent games.

I agree most with the issue about save points, because not being able to take a brake due to save point location a bullshit. You'll never see in the blurb for a game "A test of endurance, harsh penalty for minor failure!". Why? Because it's not a good aspect to the game, when about to die and I have not saved for some time I don't feel tension or drama, I feel fear. Fear that all the hard work I've gone through will be undone, like a save file being corrupted.

Make the game hard by all means, but also make it fair, Dragon Age did it so it's not unreasonable.

I been reading some of the comments, and I can't help but think whenever someone agrees with removing save points "Stop being shit?"

The player or the game?
If you're talking about the player, most people still get though the game with these stupidly placed save points, it's just less fun.

 

[Internet Kraken]

No it isn't. Being able to save anywhere is what artificially balances difficulty. Never having to worry about failure when you can just quick save every minute is what breaks a game. Yes, having to replay a couple parts is annoying, but it's supposed to be annoying, it's the punishement for failure. And it makes a success worth something.

Save grinding - that is saving before every bit difficult part and every other minute so that failure means nothing and you over come the challenges of the game with cheap trial and error rather than skill or dedication... That's a broken and challengeless system. Not to mention that without a fear of failure, there's no satisfaction of success.
Say what you will, but it does water down the experience.

There's no point in hard difficulty if you can just save grind your way through the game. Infinite tries for any single part of the game without any retribution is pretty close to just having god-mode as you are as perfectly immortal either way. And if even save grind doesn't make it a breeze to get through the game, then the difficulty is way off.

Sorry, but you haven't really answered the question. You've said why having save points is annoying. You've said how it makes you slog through the same crap over and over again. But you haven't explained, in any way, how it makes the game harder.

Being able to save prior to a big fight versus the only save being at the start of the dungeon does not change the difficulty of the upcoming fight. The enemies are still just as strong. They are still just as likely to kill me. The only difference is that if I die I can try fighting them again right away. With the latter you have to do everything over again and then try again. Now please, enlighten me, how is this anything other than a temporary inconvenience? I've already done it before. It doesn't make fighting the big bad any harder. It just wastes time.

Being able to save at any point hardly makes you immortal. You are still just as susceptible to death. You still don't want to die, so the fear of death still exists. And it doesn't ruin the satisfaction of victory. I really don't see your logic.

Basically, you haven't proven anything to me. You still haven't convinced me that being sent to the start of the dungeon somehow increases the difficulty. I'll tell you what it does increase, and that's frustration. But making the game harder? No, it just makes it harder to tolerate the game's poor design.

 

[digotw]

I goddamn hate multiplayer, as well as the line of thinking these days that a game can only be good if it has multiplayer. GO TO HELL MULTIPLAYER!!!

The only thing i agree on is the cardboard cut out cast. I cant stand the "shy, long time friend chick who secretly has a crush on the main character".

I also think that generally this list blows. These "problems" are what make JRPG's great(save points, turn based action etc).

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

im kinda getting sick of IGN talking about how to fix things like they are the almighty kings of gaming, the only thing i agree with is that you should be able to save whenever. sometimes its annoying if i need to do something else but i dont want to leave my system running

 

[phar]

It's a pretty bad list to be honest (and Bethesda worlds feeling alive?) most of their compliants are things WRPGs are no better at, some that WRPGs are far worse at.

Thats pretty much it. Person who wrote it obviously just doesnt like JRPGs.

Like seriously.. do people really want 100s of Fallout/Oblivion clones, must have multiplayer chucked in somehow as well.

Also a note to everyone else, they might not sell well in America it doesnt mean they dont sell well in other regions...

 

[Metalteeth9]

JRPG's are cliched? Then they are not playing the same games I am.

LIST TIME!

Final Fantasy X - Name one other video game that is as critical of religion as that game.

Eternal Sonata - The entire world was in the mind of a famous European Composer on his death bed. If that is not original, I don't know what is.

Lost Odyssey - While it had some cliched elements, the whole over arcing plot was quite entertaining, and I feel like it was well done.

And they say get rid of turn based? Final Fantasy XII tried that, and in my opinion, it was horrible. It was just a big mess. Seeing the demo for FFXIII, I think I have some faith for the game.