Illegal downloading is not theft - its something new

[bkd69]

It's still theft. Sorry.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

 

[SirSchmoopy]

Yes, but Gamestop purchased that disk from the company that produced said game. Gamestop would lose the money that was spent on that copy of the game. Where as in pirating, what is lost is an non-existant profit that could be payed for the game, but no company loses additional money from the act.

No. That isn't how it works. The COST to make the game is ILLRELEVANT. By NOT purchasing the game and downloading it you are simply TAKING the money from the company, it is EXACTLY the same as stealing a copy from a gamestop.

You are not PULLING this product from thin air and har har it's virtual goods so it doesn't count. Gamestop loses money because THEY cannot sell the game they ordered for the customer, the DEVELOPERS lose money because they can't sell to the suppliers. Don't think this shit isn't stealing because it is.

If you honestly think illegal downloading is perfecting fine then you are a complete tool because you are only hurting the industry.


If you COULDN'T download the game, then you would have to PAY money for it. You might use the arguement "Oh well I wouldn't pay for this crap". Well to freaking bad, entertainment is entertainment. You might not pay for it but that doesn't mean you can just get it for free, go get your jollies somewhere else if you don't want to pay for it.


Hey, if you want to pirate some games, go for it. I mean I honestly don't care but to go around proclaiming your not stealing and it doesn't matter then you just oblivious to the rippling effect this stuff causes.

50,000 people decide not to buy "INSERT AAA TITLE GAME" but instead rip it off the net, Small Game Company is now out 250,0000 dollars for there title because people stole it instead of bought it and there predicted numbers are now lower, Small Game Company has two choices now as they did not make the return on there AAA title to make another game, call it quits or let EA buy them out.


Freeshards for MMOs, Bit Torrenting games, hell even buying shit used from gamestop, all that does is hurt developers and means the games of tomorrow are going to be crappier. Don't say that shit doesn't matter cause trust me it does. I'm the kinda guy who runs a small business and makes a little web cartoon. if escapist and me ever parted ways I would make all my bank off merchandise, a majority of that being DVD sales. You want to rip my shit off the net instead of paying for it, more power to you but when the money runs out I'm gonna have to close up shop.



It's Stealing.
You are hurting the entire business by doing it.
Don't pretend otherwise.

 

[Logan Keller]

Game developers need money to live off. By downloading games they have made when they could be doing other jobs you are depriving them of their income. You can't buy what you need from downloads.

 

[bkd69]

For those who feel that downloading==theft, please rate the following thefts on a scale of 1-10, where 1 is stealing a copy of Tom Hanks' private fax number to send him a happy birthday card, and 10 is pushing an old lady down the stairs to take her purse and her social security check:

A) Downloading a Kangaroo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_(arcade_game) )ROM to play in MAME

B) Downloading a copy of Renegade Legion: Interceptor ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renegade_Legion:_Interceptor#Computer_Game )

C) Downloading either the DC or the PS1 version of Dragon Riders: Chronicles of Pern( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonriders_of_Pern#Games )

D) Downloading a cracked copy of game that you've purchased so you can install a copy that's free from DRM

E) Making and mounting a disc image, or applying a no-cd patch so that you can avoid disc checks

F) Downloading a ROM of a GBA cart that you've purchased, to play on a GBA emu on an XBox Classic

G) Downloading Bioshock

 

[TerraMGP]

As I have said before, right or wrong its not going to stop. I don't claim to know how to work it, but long term things are going to have to change. People will always get things for free if they can, and with the world Economy the way it is most people are going to hoard every penny they can. I'm not an Economist, I don't know exactly what changes are needed, but changes are needed because the threat of prosecution is really not enough to stop the overwhelming number of people doing it.

 

[Unknower]

Maybe the definition of theft should just be updated?

A pirate that will use said pirated game for personal use will not win any money out of it. And the company being infringed of their copy rights won't lose any because they didn't had it from the beginning!. No one loses, no one wins. It balances itself out and to all the haters saying that pirates are thieves well, go eat cacti, maybe then you'll think before posting.

I think it's bloody simple: pirates win because they get games for free and companies lose because they don't get money.

 

[742]

sorry but... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7734985.stm pay special attention to the part where it mentions AK47's and fucking RPG's.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7741287.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7737375.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7623329.stm notice all the pictures include armed men, and the repeated mention of HOSTAGES.
the above links are about piracy and pirates. i may have confused the links, but if ya wanna know about pirates... and notice the stuff about illegal dumping of toxic waste and "extremeist islamists" or whatever wording theyre using today, thats their fancy way of saying muslim terrorists, who are all probably either linked to or inspired by al qaeda(spelling?) now to me, terrorism murder shitloads of hostages and dumping toxic waste in the water of an already war torn region are NOT exactly the equal of downloading a video game from a company that broke your last computer in an industry that has a standardized price for their product (theres a word for that, i know it! its JUST on the tip of my tounge). those god damn pirates should be hunted down and burned at the fucking stake for what they do, after EA gets their money of course.

sure, copyright is wrong in many cases. so is treating your customers like shit, then adding nazi DRM (and price fixing). whether it justifies copyright infringement or not is wrong, but i think i remember hearing about some case where a guy who downloaded a bunch music/movies/games was punished worse than he would have been for raping a baby, i personally think thats wrong. but then, im AGAINST the raping of babies, a position which is clearly NOT shared by RIAA and its video game equivilent.

 

[ZenMonkey47]

Ah, the poor companies. Stubbornly clinging to a failing paradigm. In my opinion, the situation is like when Gutenberg invented movable type, and the book producers insist on only selling hand made copies of books at hand copied prices.

Taking morality out of the equation, it all comes down to price, ease, and availability.
Price: You get a comparative product absolutely free (financially free that is. There is of course a moral and potential criminal cost)
Ease: Downloading a game takes a single mouse click.
Availability: Downloading is available to anyone and everyone all over the world at any time (provided, of course, that they can connect to the internet).

That's some pretty stiff competition. The obvious answer is to lash out and make it so people can't download illegally. The problem is: these "better mousetraps" are quickly defeated and only serve to pinch the toes of those who acquire through conventional means. No the answer does not lie in the clenched fist, but rather the open hand. As the old saying goes: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Price: don't try to make up lost profits by charging more. Instead, remember back to Economics 101 and those supply and demand curves. With downloading supply is practically infinite, so what you have to do is influence demand. Easiest way to do that? Lower the price. The goal is when faced with the choice: "download legally or download illegally" you want the customer to say: "For that price it's not worth the extra hassle to download illegally"
Ease: Instead of making things more difficult for everyone. Make things easier. Maybe have the game install as it downloads. Fill in the registration automatically. And FOR THE LOVE OF PETE allow people to play offline!
Availability: The best thing about file sharing is that the more popular something is; the faster it is to obtain. Use this. Don't discriminate for nationality. If someone in Istanbul wants to purchase your game, LET THEM. (direct2drive I'm looking at you) For you producers of tv shows and movies, spend the extra cash for subtitles and release worldwide. Want to stop people from bringing cameras inside theaters? Simply release it on the internet yourself on opening day. Let the people decide what venue they want to view your product on.

 

[sheic99]

Yes, but Gamestop purchased that disk from the company that produced said game. Gamestop would lose the money that was spent on that copy of the game. Where as in pirating, what is lost is an non-existant profit that could be payed for the game, but no company loses additional money from the act.

No. That isn't how it works. The COST to make the game is ILLRELEVANT. By NOT purchasing the game and downloading it you are simply TAKING the money from the company, it is EXACTLY the same as stealing a copy from a gamestop.

You are not PULLING this product from thin air and har har it's virtual goods so it doesn't count. Gamestop loses money because THEY cannot sell the game they ordered for the customer, the DEVELOPERS lose money because they can't sell to the suppliers. Don't think this shit isn't stealing because it is.

If you honestly think illegal downloading is perfecting fine then you are a complete tool because you are only hurting the industry.


If you COULDN'T download the game, then you would have to PAY money for it. You might use the arguement "Oh well I wouldn't pay for this crap". Well to freaking bad, entertainment is entertainment. You might not pay for it but that doesn't mean you can just get it for free, go get your jollies somewhere else if you don't want to pay for it.


Hey, if you want to pirate some games, go for it. I mean I honestly don't care but to go around proclaiming your not stealing and it doesn't matter then you just oblivious to the rippling effect this stuff causes.

50,000 people decide not to buy "INSERT AAA TITLE GAME" but instead rip it off the net, Small Game Company is now out 250,0000 dollars for there title because people stole it instead of bought it and there predicted numbers are now lower, Small Game Company has two choices now as they did not make the return on there AAA title to make another game, call it quits or let EA buy them out.


Freeshards for MMOs, Bit Torrenting games, hell even buying shit used from gamestop, all that does is hurt developers and means the games of tomorrow are going to be crappier. Don't say that shit doesn't matter cause trust me it does. I'm the kinda guy who runs a small business and makes a little web cartoon. if escapist and me ever parted ways I would make all my bank off merchandise, a majority of that being DVD sales. You want to rip my shit off the net instead of paying for it, more power to you but when the money runs out I'm gonna have to close up shop.



It's Stealing.
You are hurting the entire business by doing it.
Don't pretend otherwise.

It is still not stealing. It is COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. When someone gets arrested for downloading something illegally, the person is tried for copyright infringement. The only time it is not copyright infringement is if that person is in a country that does not honor copyrights of the country where the product is made. I.E. Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

Edit: Forgot to mention this, I am a firm believer in borrowing and purchasing used games. Especially when the game is no longer in production.

 

[SAccharing10]

Yeah, that's what amuses me. "You wouldn't steal a car! which costs 20 thousand bux and was bought by a household! But you would steal a film thats costs 10 dollars inwhich the production company is making millions from? oh, cool."

 

[sheic99]

Look at it this way then had you not acquired the game through "piracy" you would have had to of bought it from a store. That is why this is theft. There is no way around it.

The game could have been rented from a store. The original company won't make money if you rent from Blockbuster or Gamefly. The same goes for borrowing, EA didn't make money when my friend lent me his copy of Crysis. Is that stealing?

Yes, but even then, EA made money when Gamefly or Blockbuster or the guy who sold the game to Gamestop bought the game the first time around, so they've made their sale.

What publishers have to realize is, when x% of a game's players are playing pirated copies, then (100-x)% of that game's players (plus or minus some percentage of borrowers and renters) have plunked down hard earned dosh for that game, in spite of it being widely and readily available for free, and that (100-x)% of players are either suckers, or brave supporters of gaming development, depending on what you want to call them.

There are two questions that follow from that. First, how do you treat that (100-x)% of your audience that has shown that they will gladly give you money in exchange for playing your game? And second, how much of that revenue from the (100-x)% gets factored into your development budget for the next go round of whatever franchise or title you're concerned with?

There was a case that happened a year or so ago in California. A older woman ripped some music off a cd that she purchased. She then sent the songs to her friend via Email. The music industry arrested her and fined her a lot of money. The company that sued her made a statement that basically said, if she gave her friend a copy of the cd in person, then it would not be copyright infringement.

The moral of the story is that it is only illegal when at least one of two conditions occur.

1) The transfer of data occurs online.
2) A profit is made by someone other than an authorized dealer.

 

[mrnelsby]

Meh to this argument. You are just splitting semantic hairs.

I bet if a criminal stole your identity and "downloaded" all the money out of your bank-account into his you'd be much less concerned about whether to call it "theft" or not.

Bottom line, you get someone that ordinarily costs money for free by circumventing sercurity, you are a theif.

 

[Erana]

Everything has its roots in money. (and in turn, power and prestige)
Except for hate crimes; then its just plain stupidity and cruelty.

 

[mipegg]

By downloading a game off the internet are you not effectively giving yourself financial gain by taking goods and not paying for them? Your still x$ richer then you would be if you legally enjoyed playing on the game, Id call that for monetary gain.

Also, the argument that its not theft since the company hasnt spent 'any money' on the game means that it isnt illegal seems stupid to me and by that logic if I intentionally declare a tax return wrong then its not illegal because the government never 'had' that money in the first place so Im not taking anything from them

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Yeah, that's what amuses me. "You wouldn't steal a car! which costs 20 thousand bux and was bought by a household! But you would steal a film thats costs 10 dollars inwhich the production company is making millions from? oh, cool."

A humorous parody to anyone who's seen the anti-piracy ads in the UK.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eAr7zKxjCDY&feature=related

 

[Laughing Man]

The games company treat their customers like they are pirates so the real question is why shouldn't we act like them? They install DRM X which is meant to protect their game but only results in the people who bought the game having problems getting the game to run. Now some folk will say keep the copy and download a cracked version of the game, that way you are at least morally right.

Well yes but in a big freaking way NO. If the game company wants to punish me for buying their game then the process works both ways and I think I would be equally right to return the game and then punish the game company further by downloading the game they tried their hardest to prevent me playing when I purchased it legally.

This of course is spit balling, the only game that I've ever been unable to install on my system due to wanky DRM was Crysis, I returned it and later that day had a shot of it on a mates PC at which point found out that the DRM wasn't the only wanky part of the whole Crysis experience safe to say I saved the bandwidth and never got round to downloading the game.

 

[Ago Iterum]

According to the producers of these games, terrorism AND world hunger is ALL PIRATES FAULT.

There's scare tactics, then there's stupid.