Illegal downloading is not theft - its something new

[Baneat]

I agree with you 100% it needs a new term made for it. What I don't understand about people is how they can be so hypocritical. How can you condemn someone for taking away potential money from people that can afford the basic necessities of life, but shop at supermarkets, where you would be (by extension) forcing slaves (or pretty much slaves) to make your food so you can get it cheaper. I think that's a hell of a lot more evil than software piracy, the only difference is that supermarkets are socially acceptable, although that doesn't make it right.

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

Not necessarily, I could have rented it or borrowed from the game from somebody who already has it, or even play a cloned version of the .iso file from the disk itself. None of these are illegal, but they all involve me not paying for it.

Ok, now that argument I can get behind. However, with renting you are paying someone for the time that you play it. And in terms of borrowing from a friend, if the disk is needed to play the game, then there still is only one copy of the game circulating. If it's not needed, well, that little detail has always bugged me in my quest to valiantly stand against piracy.

 

[Baneat]

Not necessarily, I could have rented it or borrowed from the game from somebody who already has it, or even play a cloned version of the .iso file from the disk itself. None of these are illegal, but they all involve me not paying for it.

Ok, now that argument I can get behind. However, with renting you are paying someone for the time that you play it. And in terms of borrowing from a friend, if the disk is needed to play the game, then there still is only one copy of the game circulating. If it's not needed, well, that little detail has always bugged me in my quest to valiantly stand against piracy.

The thing is, now we are talking in potential profit, If I borrow, say, Mirrors edge from someone and complete it in one week and return it, I'm not going to buy it. It's exactly the same as piracy, because it was potential profit.

 

[kanyatta]

I agree that analogies like "You wouldn't rob a bank, would you?" is a terrible argument, but that doesn't mean piracy is OK.

An almost infinite number of statistics will tell you that the music/movie/video game business loses millions of dollars because of illegal downloading each year.

Look at it this way then had you not acquired the game through "piracy" you would have had to of bought it from a store. That is why this is theft. There is no way around it.

The game could have been rented from a store. The original company won't make money if you rent from Blockbuster or Gamefly. The same goes for borrowing, EA didn't make money when my friend lent me his copy of Crysis. Is that stealing?

The bolded statement is completely fallacious. Blockbuster and Gamefly buy all of their games from the publishers. Granted, they usually get a discount for buying in such bulk, but money goes into the publishers hands regardless.

It's just that Blockbuster and Gamefly are in business to make money, and if they rent out that game 7 times at $5/week (or whatever the rates are), then, they've made money.

Borrowing is not 'stealing', since your friend bought the game originally (or your friend's parents or whoever; you get the idea). Same goes with books. I bought The Watchmen a few weeks ago, I read it, and I've lent it out to about a half dozen friends. Sure, the publisher is probably mad they missed out on a potential chance at $60, but if my friends want their own copies for whenever, without any "Oh, I'm reading it now, can you wait a few days?", then they have to buy it themselves. Just like you with video games. If your friend has the physical disk, then when he has it at his house, you can't play it. If you really liked the game, you'll probably want your own copy eventually, instead of being a constant mooching whore.

 

[Baneat]

I agree that analogies like "You wouldn't rob a bank, would you?" is a terrible argument, but that doesn't mean piracy is OK.

An almost infinite number of statistics will tell you that the music/movie/video game business loses millions of dollars because of illegal downloading each year.

Look at it this way then had you not acquired the game through "piracy" you would have had to of bought it from a store. That is why this is theft. There is no way around it.

The game could have been rented from a store. The original company won't make money if you rent from Blockbuster or Gamefly. The same goes for borrowing, EA didn't make money when my friend lent me his copy of Crysis. Is that stealing?

The bolded statement is completely fallacious. Blockbuster and Gamefly buy all of their games from the publishers. Granted, they usually get a discount for buying in such bulk, but money goes into the publishers hands regardless.

It's just that Blockbuster and Gamefly are in business to make money, and if they rent out that game 7 times at $5/week (or whatever the rates are), then, they've made money.

Borrowing is not 'stealing', since your friend bought the game originally (or your friend's parents or whoever; you get the idea). Same goes with books. I bought The Watchmen a few weeks ago, I read it, and I've lent it out to about a half dozen friends. Sure, the publisher is probably mad they missed out on a potential chance at $60, but if my friends want their own copies for whenever, without any "Oh, I'm reading it now, can you wait a few days?", then they have to buy it themselves. Just like you with video games. If your friend has the physical disk, then when he has it at his house, you can't play it. If you really liked the game, you'll probably want your own copy eventually, instead of being a constant mooching whore.

You mentioned potential chance to make money in your post. Don't you see? the only difference between borrowing it and downloading it is that you need another copy of it. As things are going at the moment, the vast majority of games has an unacceptably short lifespan to it. With the exception of Portal, 7 hours is NOT a game. 7 hours should be the start of a game.

 

[Nimbus]

I am going to be honest here. I pirate games. I don't do it because I hate EA (although I am rather pissed at them because I can't get this damn SecuROM off my system), it's because I can't pay. I can't afford the games I download. when I do have the money I will gladly pay for the games, and I would much rather have a legal copy rather than a pirated one but for the most part it really isn't an option for me.

I download the games I download because I am flat broke. I wouldn't buy the games anyway because I couldn't buy them. I have even enjoyed some pirated games so much that I saved up and bought a copy. I really don't see who I am hurting by downloading this stuff.

 

[sheic99]

I agree that analogies like "You wouldn't rob a bank, would you?" is a terrible argument, but that doesn't mean piracy is OK.

An almost infinite number of statistics will tell you that the music/movie/video game business loses millions of dollars because of illegal downloading each year.

Look at it this way then had you not acquired the game through "piracy" you would have had to of bought it from a store. That is why this is theft. There is no way around it.

The game could have been rented from a store. The original company won't make money if you rent from Blockbuster or Gamefly. The same goes for borrowing, EA didn't make money when my friend lent me his copy of Crysis. Is that stealing?

The bolded statement is completely fallacious. Blockbuster and Gamefly buy all of their games from the publishers. Granted, they usually get a discount for buying in such bulk, but money goes into the publishers hands regardless.

It's just that Blockbuster and Gamefly are in business to make money, and if they rent out that game 7 times at $5/week (or whatever the rates are), then, they've made money.

Borrowing is not 'stealing', since your friend bought the game originally (or your friend's parents or whoever; you get the idea). Same goes with books. I bought The Watchmen a few weeks ago, I read it, and I've lent it out to about a half dozen friends. Sure, the publisher is probably mad they missed out on a potential chance at $60, but if my friends want their own copies for whenever, without any "Oh, I'm reading it now, can you wait a few days?", then they have to buy it themselves. Just like you with video games. If your friend has the physical disk, then when he has it at his house, you can't play it. If you really liked the game, you'll probably want your own copy eventually, instead of being a constant mooching whore.

I never said I was a mooching whore. We trade back and forth.

If 100,000 people rent from Blockbuster instead of purchasing the game, then that is 100,000 less copies sold. (I'll be damned if I buy Uncharted and play for it for 6 hours and beat it.)

With borrowing a copy can be easily made for and all that is needed is a no disk patch. Which according to copyright law is legal, since no money was made and it was done in person.

 

[sheic99]

Not necessarily, I could have rented it or borrowed from the game from somebody who already has it, or even play a cloned version of the .iso file from the disk itself. None of these are illegal, but they all involve me not paying for it.

Ok, now that argument I can get behind. However, with renting you are paying someone for the time that you play it. And in terms of borrowing from a friend, if the disk is needed to play the game, then there still is only one copy of the game circulating. If it's not needed, well, that little detail has always bugged me in my quest to valiantly stand against piracy.

COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. In your attempt to stop piracy you may need a fleet of boats and some machine guns. (That's just something that bugs me)

The thing is, now we are talking in potential profit, If I borrow, say, Mirror's Edge from someone and complete it in one week and return it, I'm not going to buy it. It's exactly the same as piracy, because it was potential profit.

again not piracy. But you did not get Mirror's Edge from an illegal download so it is not illegal.

 

[Jimmyjames]

And if you spent 2 or more years writing a book, only to have everyone read it at the library, how would you feel then?

Come on, are you serious?

Probably fine considering that the library is a public reference source. Not to mention they PAID for the books they lend out. Piracy isn't the legal borrowing that the library system is. You aren't (or shouldn't be) copying it when you bring it home.

Oh, and last time I checked, the Library doesn't copy the latest fucking Harry Potter book and put it up on the web a week before it's on store shelves.

 

[Jimmyjames]

...it's because I can't pay. I can't afford the games I download. when I do have the money I will gladly pay for the games, and I would much rather have a legal copy rather than a pirated one but for the most part it really isn't an option for me.

"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger I eat today!"

 

[UltimateXShadow]

While I do agree with you in saying that piracy isn't stealing in the pure definition, companies and individuals do have the right to distribute their property in any area of the world as well as to restrict said property from being sold in specific areas of the world. So, if a company decides not to release a game in Russia, then that's too bad for the Russians. If that company only wants to release a game in Japan, then the rest of the world can go kiss-off. That's business.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

It's still theft... this topic still going?

 

[Jamanticus]

It's still theft... this topic still going?

Apparently.

I agree- it is still theft, albeit a new type of theft.

Anyone who says otherwise should have their mouse taken away.

 

[UltimateXShadow]

It's still theft... this topic still going?

Apparently.

I agree- it is still theft, albeit a new type of theft.

Anyone who says otherwise should have their mouse taken away.

Once, I stoles the cookies from the cookie jar.

I was beaten.

















Can I keep my mouse?

 

[TheNoog]

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing to do... mainly because I'm a bastard who's sense of morality has not moved passed the idea that Socialism doesn't work, but its definitely a bad idea.

Even being a smart internet user, and having anti-malware/adware/spyware/cookiecrisp-software, my laptop is in the shop (mah brother's house) because it caught a nasty virus.

Right now, I have a trojan and I don't do anything even mildy out of the ordinary on this computer. No 4chan or other assholes of the internet. No torrents. Nothing.

If you want a computer to stay alive for longer than a week, I suggest you stay the fuck away from illegal torrents or suffer the Wrath of the Trojan Man.

 

[BurnoutPriest]

Hmm, let me propose another analogy to help clear up some vague comparisons.

Suppose there is a baker who makes four batches of 12 loaves of bread. "Piracy" would be comparable to you magically copying a dozen loaves. You have deprived him of your purchase, but you have in no way interfered with his ownership of those loaves.

To everyone who is just saying, "It's stealing," please provide your definition of stealing. This seems to be where most of the conflict is originating from and perhaps we can iron out a definition that stands up in all scenarios we perceive as "theft." Just throwing out "It's stealing" or "It's not stealing!" isn't contributing at all.

 

[Same River New Water]

Illegal downloading is not theft or something new, it's something old: copyright infringement. Notice the term: copy right. Or bootlegging, if you prefer, though that's not so literal. Did this use to happen a lot with leg-boots? What's the deal there?

 

[UltimateXShadow]

Did this use to happen a lot with leg-boots? What's the deal there?

Here are the first couple of sentences of this page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootlegging], which has your answer:

Bootleg or Bootlegging usually refers to making, transporting and/or selling illegal alcoholic liquor or copyrighted material; the term originates from concealing flasks of alcohol in the legging of boots.


Although, if you do not trust Wikipedia, I'm sure you'll find the same info on a more reliable webpage.