In Defense Of Consoles & Gamepads

[LightningBanks]

I prefer to have more stuff, generally becauase its there when if I ever need it (such as voice commands on steam games)

 

[Korten12]

>>sigh<<
"You get used to it."
That is my default statement on console/PC controls.
This statement gets an additional comment depending upon which I'm defending.
If defending PC: "If you can't get used to it, change the controls to something you can get used to."
If defending console: "If you can't get used to it, stop playing. This isn't a game for you."

In the ongoing battle between PC vs Console there are always going to be pros and cons to both sides in EVERY argument.
Just accept the stalemate and move on.

Each to their own and all that jazz....

exactly this is the truth. both are good.

 

[Netrigan]

Unless of course, you use a mouse with your console...at which point you're just playing on a gaming PC without mods and with a lower graphics threshold.

And a much more stable gaming platform

Stability was the biggest issue that made me jump ship. After I moved up to Rhode Island, I spent about two years not having any time to game, so I finally got around to playing Crysis which had been sitting on my harddrive since before my move. I was starting to get reasonably far into the game and hit one of the frequent crashes... this one wiped my save game. Given a choice between starting over and saying "fuck it", I said "fuck it".

Considering that I've been playing games on PCs since the late eighties and have never once had a save game erase itself, either you're full of shit or you had a computer full of viruses and spyware.

I've had more 360 hard drives fail on me since I bought the console four years ago than PC hard drives that have failed on me in twenty years. Consoles also have a much better chance of damaging themselves through overheat...especially when compared to a custom-built PC. If you have even the slightest clue as to what you're doing, a PC is the much more stable option.

It crashed while auto-saving, which corrupted the file.

It's a pretty rare occurrence, but I've had it happen before in other games. This was just the first time I didn't have a back-up save file from slightly earlier in the game.

Trying to find the message board post I made at the time at a comic board called IMWAN. Is funny to watch me typing stuff like this back in January of last year.

I find myself more annoyed by the Bioshock controls on the PC, because the five billion buttons I'm supposed to deal with. If it weren't for the fucking awful gamepad aiming, the PS3 would be the far superior control scheme. Weapons, plasmids, and bullet types are all easily switched. Want to use a plasmid, just hit the plasmid fire button and it auto switches. On the PC, you have to switch with the second mouse button, then fire with the first mouse button.

I even like the hacking screen better on the PS3. Once you get the hang of it, you can often set up the next piece.

But mouse aiming... ahhhh, it makes it all worth it.

and

Call Of Duty 3... okay, so the game makes use of the six axis thing to do all sorts of stupid shit you rather not have to do (like jiggling it around to "fight" hand-to-hand)... but you can't lean. WTF?!? Seems the most obvious thing to do with the six axis on a FPS, since those are pretty much five keys too far for most console ports.

 

[Netrigan]

Since I got called a liar, a link to my original *****-fest on Jun 07, 2010 (I actually remembered the timeline of all this wrong as I had taken to a shine to my PS3 shortly before ditching PC gaming for good). Message board requires registration, but link supplied if you *really* have to check out my story.

http://www.imwan.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16897&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=crysis&start=1452

I finally put forth the effort to play a PC game that's been hanging around on my hard drive forever: Crysis. It's absolutely beautiful, but I think the game makes the mistake of making the first couple of pitched battles a hell of a lot harder than they need to be, since you're still getting used to the power-suit functions.

So, anyway, I finally put in a few hours to get the hang of the combat. I'm starting to make real progress in the game, starting to enjoy it, and I'm battling tanks so I save. The game crashes. No problem, I think. At worst, I have to load up a previous save position. No, wait, the game hangs every time I go to the load screen.

Fuck this poorly coded piece of shit. I was already having a few problems with it, like it bouncing out of full-screen mode for no reason and some random crashes; but that's it.

Folowed shortly by:

Crysis led to my rather long-overdue decision to put an end to the PC gaming. I haven't really played any PC games in the last few years and have been picking up more and more games on the PS3... where there's at least a shot of me finishing them.

Also put the kibosh on a festering plan to buy a little nettop of Mac Mini as an Internet machine that would free up my main system for gaming again, since my desire to browse while playing games is a large part of why I don't game on the PC anymore.

Will be picking up Crysis 2 on PS3 though. It looks as though they've refined the combat system a lot and made it a lot more interesting.

 

[Kurokami]

I'm a fairly recent PC-to-console convert. Love the PC gaming of my past, but as the Console Age was dawning, they had a serious problem. That problem was Feature Creep. Simple FPS games were starting to ship with leaflets illustrating the control scheme for the game. To show you how far they had come from the Doom days, take a look at Far Cry's default controls.

Movement:
Forward-W
Left-A
Down-S
Right-D
Jump-Space
Crouch-Ctrl
Prone-V
Walk-Z
Sprint-Shift
Lean-LeftQ
Lean-RightE

Multiplayer:
Chat-Y
Team-V
Scoreboard-Tab

Game:
Use-F
Hold Breath-Enter
Flashlight-Num /
Binoculars-B
CryVision-T
Screenshot-F12
Switch View-F

Combat:
Fire-Mouse 1
Reload-R
Toggle Fire-X
Next Weapon-Page Down
Prev. Weapon-Page Up
Drop Weapon-J
Cycle Grenades-H
Throw Grenades-G
Zoom-Mouse 2
Zoom In-Mouse Wheel Up
Zoom Out-Mouse Wheel Down
Weapon 1-1
Weapon 2-2
Weapon 3-3
Weapon 4-4

Now, some of these things are just options for people who like to play games a certain ways. Weapon selection is done via number keys, mouse wheel, or weapon cycle keys... so it's not quite as bad as it looks; but it was getting frakkin' bad.

Not only do I have a run key, I have a walk key. Why?

Crouch and Lie Prone are two separate keys.

There's a friggin' hold breath key. Seriously, you can hold your breath.

Keep in mind, this isn't some FPS/RPG hybrid that utilizes a whole bunch of elements not typically found in shooters, these are the sort of options that were creeping into all standard issue games. Switch view (F) allowed you to switch between first and third person view, which you did a lot in vehicle mode because of camera issues. You got a key for Reload and for Use. Each inventory item has its own use key. There's a key to toggle grenade types and a key to toggle between semi and full automatic.

And there's a lot of PC gamers who look upon this list and go "that's what I want from a game", but I got tired of spending 10 minutes trying to figure out how to adapt this list of features to my standard FPS key mapping. This is why when I heard Microsoft was entering the game with the Xbox, I thought "good", because someone need to come along and simplify this mess.

It's a simple shooter with a simplified stealth mechanic... there's no reason it should be this complicated.

I don't get it, in any given game it takes me half a tutorial section, or without one 2-3 minutes to learn all the different buttons. Now there's nothing wrong with Console gaming at all, but I enjoy my 50 button layout.

 

[Netrigan]

I don't get it, in any given game it takes me half a tutorial section, or without one 2-3 minutes to learn all the different buttons. Now there's nothing wrong with Console gaming at all, but I enjoy my 50 button layout.

A lot of this is just me being an anal-retentive PC key tweaker (I hated default keys). I had a nice little control scheme that I used as a template for games... stuff moved around because of this feature or that feature being added or subtracted, but games that loaded up too many new keys drove me mental because I had to move too much stuff around. I don't think I ever found a Far Cry layout that was completely satisfied with.

 

[Talshere]

Amen.

Now watch how elitist fanboys will descend upon you like fanboys and tear you to shreds. Unless these are decent and civilized folks.

I'm most certainly not a "fanboy", I didn't even like Farcry 2, but I do object to dumbing down to cater to the lowest common denominator. Sure there should be simple games with simple controls for people who are more comfortable with simplicity but there should also be technically rich games for the rest of us.
Just as in addition to there being low Flesch-Kincaid level tabloid newspapers there should also be higher reading level serious papers. If you have a 7th grade reading level don't pick up the Guardian and tell me it should be dumbed down so that you can understand the articles.

So you're not a fanboy... but you liken console gamers to illiterate morons?

OT:
the controller is one of the main reason why i prefer consoles to PC for gaming, i hate having to look down at the keyboard to do something as simple as switch weapon or type a message. Admittedly if i played pc games more often i'd probably get used to it, but it says a lot that in cod4, a relatively simple game, you have to use the W,A,S,D,Q,E,R,F,T,G,V,C,U,N,ctrl,3,4,5,6,shift, and space keys, plus the mouse, as opposed to a controller where all of the buttons are easily within reach.

In CoD4 MP I use WSAD, Q&E. Shift, ctrl, C,mouse 1 through 5, space and r.

I dont need to type because we have this awesome thing called voice chat. It wasnt invented with Xbox live you know. A pad has 8 buttons it uses, compared to my 16 for PC. But in return they are no more clunky to use and I dont have to suffer more than one function per button or scrolling to get what I want, unlike the stupid hold crouch to go prone. Plus as far as I know you cant lean on CoD4 on the Xbox? It thats true we can strike off 2 of the 16 buttons as they grant extra functionality.

 

[Talshere]

Id edit but my post hasent appeared yet. pad actually have 10 buttons as both analogue sticks can be clicked. Also, aint it annoying when you click the analogue button because you pushed down a little to hard in a tense moment. Yeah. I hate that. Ill stick to the far superior keyboard and mouse ta.

 

[NotSoNimble]

I don't think you need more than 16 buttons, so an xbox controller works fine for me.

You can easily get over 20 if you combine the 4 main buttons with shoulder, and triggers too.

 

[Enigmers]

I find FPS-ing as a PC gamer to be fairly intuitive, to the point where, if you want me to play CoD4 I'll jump right in, but if you want me to list the controls for XoD4 I'll stare blankly for a minute, whimper for a second, and curl up into a little ball. I don't think about what the buttons are, I just hit them.

I know for sure there are definitely things you never use. Remember CoD4's Q/E to lean left/right? I never used those, I think Q was for switch weapons and E was for my special grenade. "E" is usually the "use" key for games, and Q is always switch weapon. There's a lot of overlap with these controls, really: learn one game, you've learned 'em all.

 

[captaincabbage]

You think that's bad?

Spoiler: ArmA II Controls

Move Mouse Left/Right - Turn Left/Right
Move Mouse Up/Down - Look Up/Down
Left Mouse Button - Fire
Right Mouse Button (Hold) - Zoom/Hold Breath/Lock Target
Right Mouse Button - Iron Sight (Optics)/ Normal View Toggle
Middle Mouse Button - Perform Default Action / Show Action Menu
Mouse Wheel Up/Down - Select Previous/Next Action
W - Forward
2xW - Sprint (until you release W)
A - Strafe Left
D - Strafe Right
S - Back
Left Shift - Temporary Switch Walk / Run
2xLeft Shift - Toggle Walk / Run
Z - Prone
X - Crouch
C - Stand
R - Reload Weapon
F - Change Weapon/Weapon Mode
Q - Lean Left (2xQ Lock Lean Left)
E - Lean Left (2xE Lock Lean Right)
Left Alt - Free Look Switch (2xLeft ALT Toggle Free Look)
Caps Lock - Voice Over Net
Tab - Next Target
Space Bar (Hold) - Quick Command
2xSpace Bar - Toggle Commanding Mode
G - Gear Screen
B - Binoculars (If Available)
K - Compass
+ (Numpad) - Zoom In
- (Numberpad) - Zoom Out
Enter (Numberpad) - Toggle 1st/3rd Person View
Fkeys - Select Subordindate Unit
Numbers - Select Radio Command

Took a long time to learn those

Goddamnit ARMA. Fuck you. Just, fuck you.

I reckon I'll post my CoD4 and MW2 setup, to show how it's done right.

WASD for movement.
E - Action
R - Reload
Q - Special grenade
Left click - Fire
Right click - Ironsights/scope
CTRL - Change stance (this is different to having crouch and prone on seperate keys. tap for crouch/standing, hold for a second for prone.)
M Wheel down - switch weapons
M Wheel up - gun attachment (shotgun, grenade launcher etc.)
M Wheel click - Throw grenade
C - night vision
3 and 4 - support options which are never used anyway.


I reckon it's the easiest way to play, so I set up all my FPS games similar when I can.
Who else has a control scheme similar to this?

 

[Netrigan]

Leaning in non-stealth games was something I rarely did. I recognized that it could be cool in a pure action game, but I always found it easier to pop in and out of cover manually.

Leaning in Thief was essential thanks to the visibility gem. Leaning in Deus Ex or Far Cry... not so much. Leaning in Call Of Duty... why bother.

 

[Kurokami]

I don't get it, in any given game it takes me half a tutorial section, or without one 2-3 minutes to learn all the different buttons. Now there's nothing wrong with Console gaming at all, but I enjoy my 50 button layout.

A lot of this is just me being an anal-retentive PC key tweaker (I hated default keys). I had a nice little control scheme that I used as a template for games... stuff moved around because of this feature or that feature being added or subtracted, but games that loaded up too many new keys drove me mental because I had to move too much stuff around. I don't think I ever found a Far Cry layout that was completely satisfied with.

After my first WASD game (counterstrike) I've never really had much issue with it, besides as you said you find many of the buttons redundant, couldn't you simply remove them? (or make them some out-of-the-way button)

 

[Netrigan]

I don't get it, in any given game it takes me half a tutorial section, or without one 2-3 minutes to learn all the different buttons. Now there's nothing wrong with Console gaming at all, but I enjoy my 50 button layout.

A lot of this is just me being an anal-retentive PC key tweaker (I hated default keys). I had a nice little control scheme that I used as a template for games... stuff moved around because of this feature or that feature being added or subtracted, but games that loaded up too many new keys drove me mental because I had to move too much stuff around. I don't think I ever found a Far Cry layout that was completely satisfied with.

After my first WASD game (counterstrike) I've never really had much issue with it, besides as you said you find many of the buttons redundant, couldn't you simply remove them? (or make them some out-of-the-way button)

Those, yes. The non-redundant, total essential keys... nope, I had to map them and pretty close to WASD and there's really not that many great places to put them. My pinky did jump & crouch duty (Shift & Control), my thumb was on use duty (space bar), middle finger was a dedicated solely for moving (either forward or backward), ring finger is a bit spastic, so that's S & W (if W is lean), leaving my index finger to deal with half dozen keys it could reach easily. Mouse-wheel for weapon selection.

Get right down to it, I was comfortable with just about the same number of keys as a console controller has. Maybe other people had more nimble fingers, but that was pretty much my limit.

 

[Netrigan]

Since I got called a liar, a link to my original *****-fest on Jun 07, 2010 (I actually remembered the timeline of all this wrong as I had taken to a shine to my PS3 shortly before ditching PC gaming for good). Message board requires registration, but link supplied if you *really* have to check out my story.

http://www.imwan.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16897&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=crysis&start=1452

I finally put forth the effort to play a PC game that's been hanging around on my hard drive forever: Crysis. It's absolutely beautiful, but I think the game makes the mistake of making the first couple of pitched battles a hell of a lot harder than they need to be, since you're still getting used to the power-suit functions.

So, anyway, I finally put in a few hours to get the hang of the combat. I'm starting to make real progress in the game, starting to enjoy it, and I'm battling tanks so I save. The game crashes. No problem, I think. At worst, I have to load up a previous save position. No, wait, the game hangs every time I go to the load screen.

Fuck this poorly coded piece of shit. I was already having a few problems with it, like it bouncing out of full-screen mode for no reason and some random crashes; but that's it.

Folowed shortly by:

Crysis led to my rather long-overdue decision to put an end to the PC gaming. I haven't really played any PC games in the last few years and have been picking up more and more games on the PS3... where there's at least a shot of me finishing them.

Also put the kibosh on a festering plan to buy a little nettop of Mac Mini as an Internet machine that would free up my main system for gaming again, since my desire to browse while playing games is a large part of why I don't game on the PC anymore.

Will be picking up Crysis 2 on PS3 though. It looks as though they've refined the combat system a lot and made it a lot more interesting.

I didn't say you were a liar, I said either you're full of shit OR you had a fuckton of viruses and spyware. So I guess it was option two. That, or Crysis has some serious issues. Just as many console games have had serious issues. That's a developer problem, not one caused by the platform.

As far as button mapping goes, I'm sorry, but you'd have to be a grade-A moron to not be able to take one look at any particular game's layout and then be good to go. Whether it's on PC or a console. Especially when it comes to FPSes, which all have a pretty standard layout across all platforms.

Sorry about that. It came across as liar to me, even though you clearly didn't say it.

Doubt it was my computer. I had only recently reinstalled XP and upgraded to Windows 7 and I've not had any problems since installing Windows 7. Crysis, on the other hand, has a bit of a reputation. Although it might have just been Crysis reacting funny to Windows 7.

But see previous post. Trying to shoehorn in two or three extra keys into a tight control scheme gets to be a pain. Seriously, I'd spend hours trying to find the perfect layout for a game that was more or less the same layout I used for all games.

 

[Netrigan]

Sorry about that. It came across as liar to me, even though you clearly didn't say it.

Doubt it was my computer. I had only recently reinstalled XP and upgraded to Windows 7 and I've not had any problems since installing Windows 7. Crysis, on the other hand, has a bit of a reputation. Although it might have just been Crysis reacting funny to Windows 7.

But see previous post. Trying to shoehorn in two or three extra keys into a tight control scheme gets to be a pain. Seriously, I'd spend hours trying to find the perfect layout for a game that was more or less the same layout I used for all games.

Well there's your issue right there. I don't know why on earth you would try to create one universal control scheme. Consoles don't have that either. Now, one control scheme for FPSes, one for Action-Adventure, one for RPGs and so forth...that would be much easier to do.

WASD is of course your base, then you just map other stuff to keys near it, and everything else goes on the number line.

This was my FPS control scheme. It was pretty flexible. If a game had weapon alt-fire, that was right mouse button. If it had iron sight aiming, that was right mouse button. If it had both, I pulled my hair out. If the game had some non-combat inventory item (like HL's flashlight), then I'd move that out of the quick access zone and so on.

It was a good system that worked with the vast majority of games with little or no problems, but every so often a Far Cry or Jedi Knight II came down the pike and made mincemeat of my system.