Infinity Ward Responds to Modern Warfare 2 Controversy

[squid5580]

...I think IW taking steps to make the PC gaming process as painless as possible is a good thing...

Perhaps, but for those of us who are already PC gamers, (i.e. the target market for this game), that stuff (server lists, etc) is as natural as walking or writing. They are getting pissed because the game becomes more accessible to other people (read: has no effect on them) at the expense of things like server-wide communities, frikkin' mods, the ability to start up your own dedicated server, and much, much better mod/admin tools. (read: makes the game worse for everyone).

Basically, the PC gamers. the ones crying out, are the ones getting the short end of the stick.

Then again why shouldn't PC gaming be press and play? Isn't technology supposed to make things easier?

It NEVER will be. There are countless different combinations of any given piece of hardware to be configured in essentially limitless different configurations in what adds up to a PC. Add on top of that another layer of essentially limitless different configurations of software. These infinite combinations are what the game developer creates the game to (hopefully) run upon. PCs aren't a closed platform like consoles. The operating environment can be anything under the sun, and as such the errors and just plain weird WTF-why-isn't-this-running? moments can also be anything under the sun.

But it is. I am a casual PC player (I much prefer a console for various reasons. Personal taste and there is nothing that anyone can say to ever change that so save your fingertips and keyboard trying to convince someone else the "superiority" of PC gaming). And every game I have ever played has been the same. I go to the store with my specs. I look at the box to make sure it will work. I bring it home. Install. Google patch. Install and double click on the icon on my desktop and figure out the controls. It is when everyone else thinks it is thier god given right to screw with the code and mod things that it gets complicated. Then you puff out your chest and say "damn right if you don't like it you can leave" so instead of building a bigger base you shoo away potential customers to the consoles. And we all know where that mentality eventually leads to. Your gaming experiences may be superior while your library becomes steadily inferior. So it seems to me that the people who rely on those sales to you know live and stuff need to get the attention of "THE CASUALS" more than they need to cater to "THE ELITISTS". Afterall if "elitists" are the true voice of the industry Nintendo would be in last place, Popcap would be bankrupt, and PC game sales would be top of the market. Sooner or later "elitists" are going to have to adapt while the casual crowd hopefully evolves. That is the way the market has/is shifting unless "elitists" start buying multiple copies of the same game.

 

[kibayasu]

But it is. I am a casual PC player (I much prefer a console for various reasons. Personal taste and there is nothing that anyone can say to ever change that so save your fingertips and keyboard trying to convince someone else the "superiority" of PC gaming). And every game I have ever played has been the same. I go to the store with my specs. I look at the box to make sure it will work. I bring it home. Install. Google patch. Install and double click on the icon on my desktop and figure out the controls. It is when everyone else thinks it is thier god given right to screw with the code and mod things that it gets complicated. Then you puff out your chest and say "damn right if you don't like it you can leave" so instead of building a bigger base you shoo away potential customers to the consoles.

By far the majority of servers for any current PC game have absolutely no gameplay mods, especially ones that require large downloads or completely change the game. Your complaint, while not completely baseless, is a non-issue.

 

[slopeslider]

Also: If the 'majority' are being screwed over by dedi-servs, why not let them play MM while the minority elitist @$$holes play on their own servers? The 'majority' would be happy, and IW would have its hardcore back. Unless, of course, people would play the dedi-servs more than MM, because they like it more. Are you saying you'd rather deprive the tiny elitist minority their servers? if so your a tool. But I think you KNOW if they had both MM would be a distand second to private dedi-servs.

Regarding this idea that MM will cause less confusion to newbies;
I find it hard to believe that someone could do the research needed to buy the correct RAM, videocard and soundcard, make sure they're compatible, run the neccesary drivers, install the game, but cant be bothered to find out what a ping is? It's like making students in calculus sit thru a basic TI-83 tutorial. If they're in the class then they probably are familiar with it. If they succsfully set up mw2 then they can figure out what a ping is. Heck i figured out the lower the better pretty quick, didnt even have to google it.

 

[squid5580]

-snip-

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that modding PC games is elitist....or that with dedicated servers each and every server will be modded to hell and back and be unrecognisable....?

I don't know. can you clear that up?

Niether really. Modding a game isn't elitist in itself. When people mistake it as a right other than a priviledge (calling for boycotts and such) then it becomes elitist.

And it isn't that every server will be modded. It is just usually never clear what server is or isn't. Or what server is for whom. Which leads back to this wall of hardcore elitist on one side and that wall can't and should never be climbed by the casuals. If I get booted from different servers because I don't speak the right language (or a variety of other reasons which would take far to long for me to list) because I don't know where to find the information to find the right server for me I am going to waste alot of time not having fun. Which will lead me to look for something else to play on where I can (aka a console).

I think you guys should be happy. Instead of turning thier backs completely on the PC (which for all of it's good points there is alot of bad ones that cost them) they are trying to streamline it and keep it alive.

 

[shadow skill]

-snip-

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that modding PC games is elitist....or that with dedicated servers each and every server will be modded to hell and back and be unrecognisable....?

I don't know. can you clear that up?

Niether really. Modding a game isn't elitist in itself. When people mistake it as a right other than a priviledge (calling for boycotts and such) then it becomes elitist.

And it isn't that every server will be modded. It is just usually never clear what server is or isn't. Or what server is for whom. Which leads back to this wall of hardcore elitist on one side and that wall can't and should never be climbed by the casuals. If I get booted from different servers because I don't speak the right language (or a variety of other reasons which would take far to long for me to list) because I don't know where to find the information to find the right server for me I am going to waste alot of time not having fun. Which will lead me to look for something else to play on where I can (aka a console).

I think you guys should be happy. Instead of turning thier backs completely on the PC (which for all of it's good points there is alot of bad ones that cost them) they are trying to streamline it and keep it alive.

By taking away the things people like about it? Next you will tell me I should be happy that I can barely play Infamous at all because there are no options for me to change the sticks and buttons so that I can shoot better. There should be no mods because the games you played did not distinguish between the ones using them and the ones not? The correct answer is to more clearly highlight this.

 

[Juraz]

Was stoked when i read all the cool new things they added to this game then they said this so im not getting it anymore bl Infinity ward

 

[slopeslider]

maybe you should play on a console. It's what I do. You wouldn't go to japan and ask them to put english under all the kanji because it's difficult to read, its not how things are done there. and taking away dedicated servers is not how things are done in pc gaming. MM for you and all the hip cool non-nerd people, dedicated servers for the evil elitist hacker modding losers. everyone's happy.

 

[shadow skill]

maybe you should play on a console. It's what I do. You wouldn't go to japan and ask them to put english under all the kanji because it's difficult to read, its not how things are done there. and taking away dedicated servers is not how things are done in pc gaming. MM for you and all the hip cool non-nerd people, dedicated servers for the evil elitist hacker modding losers. everyone's happy.

People like him are only concerned if they benefit. Screw everyone else no matter how easy and utterly painless it is to accommodate everyone.

 

[Amnestic]

-snip-

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that modding PC games is elitist....or that with dedicated servers each and every server will be modded to hell and back and be unrecognisable....?

I don't know. can you clear that up?

Niether really. Modding a game isn't elitist in itself. When people mistake it as a right other than a priviledge (calling for boycotts and such) then it becomes elitist.

Isn't it just modifying data that we've bought for our own personal - or shared with consent - use with others who have also bought the data for their own personal - or shared with consent - use? I'm pretty sure there are some digital ownership people and consumer rights activists who may have something to say about moddability being a right of the consumer. That's not elitist at all and to say so is willfully ignorant.

 

[squid5580]

-snip-

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that modding PC games is elitist....or that with dedicated servers each and every server will be modded to hell and back and be unrecognisable....?

I don't know. can you clear that up?

Niether really. Modding a game isn't elitist in itself. When people mistake it as a right other than a priviledge (calling for boycotts and such) then it becomes elitist.

And it isn't that every server will be modded. It is just usually never clear what server is or isn't. Or what server is for whom. Which leads back to this wall of hardcore elitist on one side and that wall can't and should never be climbed by the casuals. If I get booted from different servers because I don't speak the right language (or a variety of other reasons which would take far to long for me to list) because I don't know where to find the information to find the right server for me I am going to waste alot of time not having fun. Which will lead me to look for something else to play on where I can (aka a console).

I think you guys should be happy. Instead of turning thier backs completely on the PC (which for all of it's good points there is alot of bad ones that cost them) they are trying to streamline it and keep it alive.

By taking away the things people like about it? Next you will tell me I should be happy that I can barely play Infamous at all because there are no options for me to change the sticks and buttons so that I can shoot better. There should be no mods because the games you played did not distinguish between the ones using them and the ones not? The correct answer is to more clearly highlight this.

So you would be happier not playing it at all?

-snip-

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that modding PC games is elitist....or that with dedicated servers each and every server will be modded to hell and back and be unrecognisable....?

I don't know. can you clear that up?

Niether really. Modding a game isn't elitist in itself. When people mistake it as a right other than a priviledge (calling for boycotts and such) then it becomes elitist.

Isn't it just modifying data that we've bought for our own personal - or shared with consent - use with others who have also bought the data for their own personal - or shared with consent - use? I'm pretty sure there are some digital ownership people and consumer rights activists who may have something to say about moddability being a right of the consumer. That's not elitist at all and to say so is willfully ignorant.

I hope you read this instead of the one in your inbox. I think you misunderstood. I am not getting into modding right or wrong. That is a choice the devs make allowing modded content or not in an online game. That is where the priviledge is. They don't have to allow you to mod and distribute content based on thier game and use thier servers to do it.

 

[Amnestic]

Big difference between modding content for your own use and having the right to distribute your modded content and share someone elses.

If we're sharing the same modded data which we both bought from the publisher, is there? Since both consumers now own that data, they have the right to share it in whatever form they want with other people who also own that data. It's a muddy legal issue at the moment there's no doubt about that, but since most mods end up either being endorsed and allowed by the company (see Blizzard and World of Warcraft mods) or used on private/dedicated servers (see every PC FPS game ever) I'm not sure what the issue is here. It's no different than modding an 'illegal' car if you're only going to be driving it on your own private land, except in this case the car is data and the land is your server.

 

[squid5580]

Big difference between modding content for your own use and having the right to distribute your modded content and share someone elses.

If we're sharing the same modded data which we both bought from the publisher, is there? Since both consumers now own that data, they have the right to share it in whatever form they want with other people who also own that data. It's a muddy legal issue at the moment there's no doubt about that, but since most mods end up either being endorsed and allowed by the company (see Blizzard and World of Warcraft mods) or used on private/dedicated servers (see every PC FPS game ever) I'm not sure what the issue is here. It's no different than modding an 'illegal' car if you're only going to be driving it on your own private land, except in this case the car is data and the land is your server.

Dammit I just finished editing it hoping to beat this post. Although "Your Server?" If you are paying for it sure but correct me if I am wrong but aren't you using a small piece of thier server and calling it your own in this type of situation. I know something like the Sims is different where you are D/Ling mods and they are across different sites all over the net.

 

[Glass_House]

Bah the whole "matching you with players of your same SKILL" idea never works. You will always have a group of people (I admit I have done it in the past) who create new accounts, characters etc. for the sole purpose of going back to easier servers and dominating the newer players. While this can be amusing on occasion, it really doesn't help newer players progress. I mean if all the newbs are being farmed at the start and not ranking up then who will the higher end players have to lol at?

 

[kibayasu]

Dammit I just finished editing it hoping to beat this post. Although "Your Server?" If you are paying for it sure but correct me if I am wrong but aren't you using a small piece of thier server and calling it your own...

No. Third party server means exactly what it says. If IW pays for all the server space, sure, they have the right.

What most people are saying is that there just isn't a point for them to do that that makes sense from our perspective.

 

[johnman]

There is still no reason we cant have both, the newbs get there simple matchmaking and the people who can be arsed to spend five mins learning how to use a sever can do that too.

 

[johnman]

[
I like TF2. I want to enjoy TF2 with a buddy of mine who now lives on the opposite side of the country, and whose last foray into PC gaming was... uh, possibly the original StarCraft. If we were playing on the 360, it'd be as easy as putting the disc in and playing together. But we don't want to play on the 360, we want to play on the PC. I think IW taking steps to make the PC gaming process as painless as possible is a good thing.

So one person logging onto a sever and the other clicking "Join game" is far too hard?
I am sorry Funk but I fail to see the validity of any of your arguments, you dont seem to give a toss about the majority that have been using sever browers for years and know what they are doing and see the few that cannot even be arsed to try preference.

 

[DTWolfwood]

So I'm beginning to think that all challenges in life must have an EZ button. While the IQ of humanity continue to drop cause we all need to cater to more and more idiots in an attempt to gleam more money out of every demographic possible. I'm beginning to think Idiocracy is a documentary that hasn't happened yet.

If they want to make it "as painless as possible" add a big QUICK MATCH BUTTON (which i'm pretty sure a lot of PC games already have that still have dedicated server support) <.< why get rid of something that works and works WELL; while replacing it with something untested.

p.s. Corporate Greed FTL ._.

 

[Treblaine]

drawing more wild conclusions for more ridiculous straw man arguments.

1. Its not a double negative: - it means I can't tell you that any of those games wouldn't have been better off with an MM system.

2: Server is in New York. I have the advantage on any non-North Eastern connecting to the server, even if it shows them 100% perfect connection. Server is in Texas, I have a disadvantage to anyone connecting from the Southwest.

P2P - Host has advantage vs. everyone, but everyone else is essentially equal.

Having to deal with 1 slightly boosted person, or potenially 2+? Not a hard decision.

3: Stop saying its simple to do such and such. You have to think about it from the perspective of someone whose techincal knowledge extends only to "Put disc in, install, play". Which believe it or not, is many, many more people than you would think.

4: People keep saying that both systems can exist at the same time. This is technically true, but the dedicated servers will defeat the purpose of MM, since gamers, having tendencies for being greedy and egocentric, will ignore MM in favor of the endless waves of one map, one gametype, slight time variation that plaques server games.


Its basically about bang-for-buck here people. When you let players control the experience of other players, you're setting the ones without the power or knowledge to run it up to be robbed. I could go through every single game I listed and cut out about 30% up to 75% of the MP content, and you'd never notice because your vaulted server systems never use it.

You are talking about an arbitrary scenario to make Dedicated Servers seem bad when in reality you would have absolute freedom in selecting which server gives the best ping.

With an MM system the problem comes with you don't have ANY control over which host you connect to. With an MM system the one closest to the host also has a better connection PLUS the host them self has a 0 ping! MM hosting has all the problems of dedicated servers only WORSE and many other problems to boot!

Need I remind you that in broadband networks like the UK upload performance for home users is terrible, not to mention heavily restricted. Servers are strategically placed in the network (often in or directly connected to an internet hub) to give the maximum performance for EVERYONE.

At least with a dedicated server selection you can find the best server for you while with MM you are completely at the whim of an arbitrary and imperfect algorithm.

Your reason for why MM and Dedicated Servers cannot work side by side, that is "defeats the purpose" is beyond stupid. You're saying that so many complete PC-noobs will deliberately ignore the "Play Now" button and presumably when their thick heads fail to understand the server based structure (which to a layman doesn't seem much better anyway) they would just give up and never even try the easy option?

For pete's sake, even with Steam which makes PC gaming SO much more accessible there is still so much more you need to know which means it can never be "plug and play":
-You have to get the right game for the power of your hardware. That means you can't run crysis on max on some home office machine or a typical laptop.
-You have to select the right settings and know all about resolution, frame rate, anti-aliasing and then determine if your system can actually handle that.
-There is the testing frame performance benchmarking apps, most console gamers I talk to have no clue what a benchmark is and so many seriously fail to grasp the importance of framerate or lag.

I know for so many people the just cannot be fucked with dealing with that.

Remember that statistic that some 80% of people who played Gears of War 2 played it on an SDTV with the composite cable? Even though though could have bought a VGA cable for $20 and plugged their 360 into a cheap/plentiful computer monitor like a 1280x1024 to allow 720p gaming?

But no, the majority just stuck with 480i.

This audience can't even handle the complexity of plugging in their HD console to the right device, do we REALLY need to accommodate to these people on PC gaming?!?!?

I mean I am constant extolling the benefits of mouse aim to my other exclusively console gaming friends and just just don't give a crap.

WHY should we bend over backwards and fuck everything up to accommodate for this group that is:
(a) disinterested in what PC can offer
(b) are already happy with what console offers and most don't even make the most use of that

IF you want a simple "plug n' play" version of Modern Warfare 2... BUY THE 360 OR PS3 VERSION and just play that!

Personally I plan to get both PC and 360 version (once they are down to a reasonable price) as my friends for potential Special Forces co-op games are quite evenly split between PC and 360, but I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to compromise the PC version just to get my 360 friends into the PC version.

 

[Zwan]

Okay, I run my own Counter Strike Source dedicated server, I also do systems administration as my occupation, I can tell you this: If you want more than 4 players on someones home internet connection you are not going to be able to (In Australia at least).

Problem I have is that we aren't going to see games with 8 or more players which don't have lag, or some retard running off and leaving mid-game and closing the session. Not to mention it will take ages to arrange the match (my major fury with console online-gaming), no one will be able to 'instantly' find a good server(match) to join when they want to.


PS: SC2 with no lan support pisses me off as well, I'm a heavy Lan Party goer and RTS's such as WC3 still get played to this day with much passion at these massive lan parties to this very day. I'd think it'd kill alot of fun for us personally.