Infinity Ward Teases Modding Tools for PC Modern Warfare 2
- Thread starter John Funk
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I don't wanna come across as picking on every little thing you say...CantFaketheFunk said:
Its just that during the discussion on "lean", this was the only theory thrown out as to why they did it.CantFaketheFunk said:
And the reason does interest me. Not because I am a diehard fan who believes "MW is nothing without its lean!!", but because its removal doesn't really make sense.
You keep bringing up TF2 grenades, but as I understand it, there was some sort of spamming issue. Removing them brought controversy, but Valve only did it because there was even more controversy when they were present.
What was the controversy with lean?
Oh COME ON Funk... why are you being like this? You know FULL WELL that other PC FPS games that lack lean have completely different play-styles.CantFaketheFunk said:Other FPS games manage just fine without lean. Judging by the popularity of MW2's multiplayer, it does too.McGee said:Sorry.....inconsequential? It's a pretty big deal, especially for snipers. The whole "not balanced for lean" thing is complete BS. They simply didn't feel like putting it in.CantFaketheFunk said:
Also:
[http://img25.imageshack.us/i/historyoflean1.gif/]
[http://g.imageshack.us/img25/historyoflean1.gif/1/]
You are being manipulative and disingenuously dismissing how the entire COD and Medal of Honor franchise used lean by simply saying the asinine remark "other games manage without lean"
That is because they are run and gun shooters where you can take 20 bullets to the chest and still go on fighting without your vision getting so much as blurred. That isn't a bad thing, that is what Half Life 2 did but you don't have a powered Hazard Suit in Modern Warfare 2: one bullet and you lose your aim, two and you can't see from all the blood in your vision, a few more and you're dead.
Hell, even the health system in COD franchise and Modern Warfare 2 even is based on staying still and IN COVER for your bullet wounds to magically heal (I think we can suspend our disbelief on the biology of that) but you can't deny this is a cover shooter where lean is essential.
Half Life 2 and other Sans-Lean shooters you recover by running around to get health kits. Staying in cover won't do you any good.
And the WORST indictment against MW2's controls in so far of the lack of lean is you see every other NPC and enemy is capable of doing it. Not balanced for lean? THEN WHY DO YOU SEE EVERYONE DOING IT?!?!?
It just Reeks of the developers artificially dumbing down for platform parity with the consoles that lack lean because there apparently aren't enough buttons on the pad.
The annoying thing about this is the bastard brother of IW with their COD franchise is EA with their Medal of Honor series have shown how lean could be perfectly implemented and implemented so well even on consoles with Medal of Honor: Airborne.
The game itself was hardly revolutionary but I played the PS3 version and I have to tell you it has the BEST "lean and over" mechanisms I have seen in any game, PC or Console. See the left stick was movement as usual, right for aiming, but the six-axis motion detector was used to actuate lean and it is a feature that works so well I am amazed no other game has tried it.
Sniping through small holes has all the awkwardness removed since it is so much like real life how you view the world, to look around through a small hole you move your head around, easy in this game (not that I snipe through holes in real life but surely you have looked through a hole into a room). Also, just peeking over the top of cover and same with around corners. It was a lot like head tracking only quite literally less of a pain in the neck, far easier to implement and IMHO the controller's tilt far more suited for the precision.
Looking at press events IW have held, they only ever seem to have talked about Modern Warfare 2 on the 360, they are only ever seen playing the 360 build, there is that special Xbox bundle with special MW2 style Console and even TV adverts doggidly advertised MW2 as for the 360 and only briefly mentioned at the end that it's for PS3 and PC as well when their Logos pop up.
I'm not saying they have been bought out by Microsoft but it sure as hell seems like they are stuck in an Xbox 360 mindset and are mostly ignoring the capabilities of the other platforms.
Medal of Honor: Airborne on PS3 was FAR superior to the 360 version (though slightly poorer graphics) thanks to making wonderful use of the Six-axis.
Only something like lean is so much more basic than a complex six-axis actuated lean-mechanism, this is beyond laziness, it seems more like fanboy-ish-ness: "360 version manages without lean, then no version will get lean!" or "360 verions didn't need dedicated servers, so no-one will get them!"
There is no way they were animating the allied NPCs and enemies to lean and shoot around corners and it didn't occur to them that lean was a good gameplay feature for the player, that it would be a balanced feature. It's quite obvious the game was built entirely with an Xbox 360 mindset and when "ported" to PC they just added in the immediately obvious features, resolution/texture controls, etc.
Stop. Just Stop.CAW4 said:
OT, come on IW, just fucking put in dedicated servers and run away. Without Dedicated Servers I bet the modding system will be like WarCraft 3, where everyone had to download the custom map then you could play. Which was fine, because it was just the map and different minor settings, and unit placement and all that. So that tells me its most likely just gonna be something similiar to Forge, becasue if it truly is mod tools, without dedicated servers it would take really damn long for everyone to download an entire mod, depending on everyones connections, and then some.
P.S. Really Funk, Really!?
This is insane - I gotta hand it to funk for handling these personal attacks so well.
Usually I would throw in my two cents but I'm sort of speechless.
As for the whole "mod tools" thing, I don't expect it to happen but I'm wrong about a lot of things. (like everything maybe?)
Usually I would throw in my two cents but I'm sort of speechless.
As for the whole "mod tools" thing, I don't expect it to happen but I'm wrong about a lot of things. (like everything maybe?)
Were earlier games even balanced for lean? The campaign seemed exactly the same from the console version to the PC in previous CoD games like 4:MW and WaW. It was basically another skill that you could use on the PC version, which was needed due to how poorly the AI was created in some areas, though console players still got through the campaign, despite how difficult it was.
I don't see how modding tools will work well, unless it's a system like Halo 3 has, or they're just single player and co-op based.
I don't see how modding tools will work well, unless it's a system like Halo 3 has, or they're just single player and co-op based.
They didn'trta said:
Also, my friend promised to buy me a copy of MW2 on PC, because I refused to pay them the money. Eh, It's a free game even if it's made by the devil.
While 'CantFaketheFunk' and I do not share the same views,I will not defend those who are attacking him.
The short of it is:
You're pissed about something
CantFake is not
You disagree.
End of.
He shouldn't be the entity you throw all your rage at.
The way I see it; Modern Warfare 2 presents Infinity Ward as the spoiled child, used to getting his way, trying to force the square block through the triangle shaped hole.
@CAW4
"Here's an idea for all you PC players; quit bitching.
Just because you're using a PC doesn't magically entitle you to benefits
that other players on different consoles don't get."
Yes it does. The product has to fit the platform.
It's like expecting toast from a kettle.
All you'll get is wet bread.
Kinda what you started with, but it's certainly not an improvement.
As for the company trying to make amends?
I'll believe it when I see it.
I'll not be buying another of their products without getting all the info first.
I do hope the industry learns from this.
I'm not one of those people slamming a product without trying it.
I'm a dude currently in possession of a AU$98 coaster (not for lack of trying to enjoy it)
Completed campaign/Spec-Ops (basically the same thing + rehashed levels from CoD4)
Online play is the poorest display of balance I have ever encountered (Irony!)
And I do miss lean.
Thank you for reading my first post here
-Nobody
The short of it is:
You're pissed about something
CantFake is not
You disagree.
End of.
He shouldn't be the entity you throw all your rage at.
The way I see it; Modern Warfare 2 presents Infinity Ward as the spoiled child, used to getting his way, trying to force the square block through the triangle shaped hole.
@CAW4
"Here's an idea for all you PC players; quit bitching.
Just because you're using a PC doesn't magically entitle you to benefits
that other players on different consoles don't get."
Yes it does. The product has to fit the platform.
It's like expecting toast from a kettle.
All you'll get is wet bread.
Kinda what you started with, but it's certainly not an improvement.
As for the company trying to make amends?
I'll believe it when I see it.
I'll not be buying another of their products without getting all the info first.
I do hope the industry learns from this.
I'm not one of those people slamming a product without trying it.
I'm a dude currently in possession of a AU$98 coaster (not for lack of trying to enjoy it)
Completed campaign/Spec-Ops (basically the same thing + rehashed levels from CoD4)
Online play is the poorest display of balance I have ever encountered (Irony!)
And I do miss lean.
Thank you for reading my first post here
-Nobody
For the love of God, I really wish this franchise would go and die already. The game isn't that good, and all it inspires is absolute stupidity and hatred amongst its "fans" and I use that term loosely. IW DIDN'T have to release another game (for the love of God I wish they didn't) but they did. And it's "fans" act like spoilt brats because you didn't get this and that. Get the hell over yourselves. You're all pretentious gits. How about thanking IW for producing this game? Not acting like idiots.
/rant.
/rant.
First offRadelaide said:
I find:
"For the love of God, I really wish this franchise would go and die already"
and "How about thanking IW for producing this game? Not acting like idiots."
a little conflicting considering there aren't many on this thread who are happy with it.
Also I'm going to dismiss the notion that a company that made what? $550-600 Million? conceived the idea in an attempt to somehow do the consumer a favour.
I'm not touching the rest of your post as I find it's full of "...stupidity and hatred"
You got to check it out, man I think I discovered it by accident when I moved the controller to reach for a drink, the game was delayed 2.5 months on PS3 to perfect this feature and yet they hardly capitalised on it at all. Well maybe a better term would be make aware to the public how great this feature was, I can find no trailers that tried to show it off. Mind you it came out in November 2007, a time when SO MANY great games were coming out from COD4 to Crysis to Orange Box... I guess it just got lost in the shuffle.IdealistCommi said:
But, why should s developer invest in a feature that can only properly be applied to the PS3 version? It seems it is as true for Modern Warfare 2 as so many other FPS games released they develop for the 360 first and then just port to do a "close as give a damn" for the PS3.
MoH: Airborne didn't sell well on PS3, I guess EA and other observers took this as a warning not to try taking the time to make the best of PS3. I'm amazed the developers of Killzone 2 didn't try this lean-peek with the six-axis but instead used the six-axis for fine tune aiming of sniper rifles, which is a poor use. I have no idea why, ignorance, fear of accusations of plagiarism though IMHO those fears would be unfounded.
Well there is in a way a controversy with Lean but not within a particular game but between games; the PC version had Lean because the keyboard was flexible enough to support it yet Consoles (or xbox 360 at least) lacked it due to a lack of buttons on the gamepad. Not much of a controversy, only someone who played both Console and PC version would likely realise. The controversy should be how to add lean TO the console versions, not take it from the PC version.hansari said:
Of course IW could have implemented lean on the PS3 release of Modern Warfare 2 with ease, MOH: Airborne showed how by utilising the six-axis you could have a lean system far superior to anything PC could offer and I'm telling you it is a sniper's dream playing MoH: Airborne being able to shoot through the most awkwardly placed holes or gaps in the enemy defences.
Only for whatever reason IW seems to have taken the Xbox 360 as the lowest common denominator in terms of controls and implemented control features entirely based on whether they are possible on the 360 gamepad, then merely emulated them on other platforms.
I mean look in the preceding months how buddy-buddy Infinity Ward have been with Microsoft, they seem to talk entirely about the 360 build and at E3 and TGS they seem to only show of the 360 build paying only lips service to the fact of a PC OR PS3 release. Then you have the Special Edition Xbox 360 with the Modern Warfare 2 theme... I have never heard of a third party game getting such special treatments as to have a special edition of a console made in commemoration of their game. OK, maybe a Pokemen themed N64 but Nintendo has almost exclusive rights to Pokemon video games.
And then we hear rumours about a THIRD team being added to the COD developers list. I don't think Activison want three developers working on the same COD franchise, I think Infinity Ward's contract is going to expire soon and Microsoft is grooming them to be bought out by Microsoft. Microsoft will lose Bungie in 2010... Epic games are not "owned" by Microsoft (though they do OWN the rights to the Gears franchise) I think Microsoft are looking to buy up a hot new developer. Maybe IW would like the development cycle as Bungie got 3-4 years to make each game, Activison gave them only 2 years per game.
I am really getting tired of all of thise news based off of tweets. I usually find news here compelling, but I don't understand why reporters for The Escapist are using tweets as their sources. It just seems silly.
And, what was this? A message to one person from Mr. Bowling? I hardly think this is worthy of even a tiny article. The petition for support for colorblind people was a good thing to report on, it's something that's actually happening and deserves some attention, but do we really need to call attention to a tweet!? Really!?
Maybe I am the silly one here, and it's not a big deal, but... Urgh. =_=; I came into this piece of news expecting there to have been some real substance behind what was being said, like someone did an official interview with Bowling, a more credible source. I'd still be fine with the "Maybe, maybe not" behind it, but at least there would be a reason to believe it. All we've got here is a conversation between two people. "So yeah, the guys and I are still thinkin' about mod tools. We still want you to play our game and not think we're total jerks, so we're gonna' pretend like it's a possibility, but you're getting your hopes up if you think we'll really do it." (Obviously not what was said, but you get what I mean.)
To me, that just doesn't deserve to be called attention to.
And, what was this? A message to one person from Mr. Bowling? I hardly think this is worthy of even a tiny article. The petition for support for colorblind people was a good thing to report on, it's something that's actually happening and deserves some attention, but do we really need to call attention to a tweet!? Really!?
Maybe I am the silly one here, and it's not a big deal, but... Urgh. =_=; I came into this piece of news expecting there to have been some real substance behind what was being said, like someone did an official interview with Bowling, a more credible source. I'd still be fine with the "Maybe, maybe not" behind it, but at least there would be a reason to believe it. All we've got here is a conversation between two people. "So yeah, the guys and I are still thinkin' about mod tools. We still want you to play our game and not think we're total jerks, so we're gonna' pretend like it's a possibility, but you're getting your hopes up if you think we'll really do it." (Obviously not what was said, but you get what I mean.)
To me, that just doesn't deserve to be called attention to.