Is 7/10 a low score to give Killzone 2?

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MarwoodBramwell

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Ok, you have to rememeber the golden rule about Edge reviews. 10 means "10" and nothing more or less than that, 9 means "9" and so on. The magazines that have to explain that "80% means is it a good game over all with a few flaws" need to learn to say that in their reviews.

Also Edge gave Fallout 3 7/10 if I remember, massively over-focused on the flaws. I thought that was very harsh indeed. And no way did Halo 3 deserve the 10 it got.

When all is said and done the scores/%/stars are all for the people too lazy to read a review and for "writers" who can't express their views in prose.
 

RAKais

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Isn't it funny how people slag Master Chief off yet he is now one of the most iconic gaming figures and the face of the xbox 360?

look, they should throw away numerical scores and just do a massive pros and cons list. I find myself looking at those sort of things rarther than the score next to it.
 

Syphonz

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In no way do I like Halo 3 at all, in fact, I returned it hours after i bought it. But the way people are acting over this is like as if Halo 3 just got reviewed last week and got a 10. Things are different now since Halo 3 was released, and how long have Guerilla been working on Killzone 2? Like 3 years now no? Maybe thoughts weren't said correctly, something like 'givin the amount of time this game has been in production, flaws like _____ and _____ could've/should've known and corrected.'

these are just my thoughts.
 

Wargamer

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RAKais said:
Isn't it funny how people slag Master Chief off yet he is now one of the most iconic gaming figures and the face of the xbox 360?
You can be 'iconic' for all the wrong reasons; there are plenty of famous serial killers around.
 

RAKais

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Wargamer said:
RAKais said:
Isn't it funny how people slag Master Chief off yet he is now one of the most iconic gaming figures and the face of the xbox 360?
You can be 'iconic' for all the wrong reasons; there are plenty of famous serial killers around.

yes because Master Chief is an iconic figure for all the wrong reasons ¬_¬ honestly.
 

aniki21

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I would personally rate all of my favourite games (Skies of Arcadia, Dead Rising, Shenmue, Prince of Persia 2008) 7/10; I don't know why good-but-flawed games resonate with me so strongly.

In any case, Edge's review scores are terrible. They seem to have little to nothing to do with the tone of the text, and sometimes they seem to go against popular opinion just for the sake of it. I mean, if "lack of imagination" is worth a three-point deduction, how can a derivative sequel like Halo 3 get a 10, but something as new and ambitious as Mirror's Edge only get a 5?
 

Wargamer

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RAKais said:
Wargamer said:
RAKais said:
Isn't it funny how people slag Master Chief off yet he is now one of the most iconic gaming figures and the face of the xbox 360?
You can be 'iconic' for all the wrong reasons; there are plenty of famous serial killers around.

yes because Master Chief is an iconic figure for all the wrong reasons ¬_¬ honestly.
He is. There's nothing particularly likeable about the guy, (being a Generic Space Marine with Generic Kick-Ass Attitude), his game system has tanked horribly even going by 'day of release' quality, and he is the mascot for the slack-jawed retards who ensure that nobody will EVER associate Xbox Live with anything beyond a bunch of arrogant thirteen year olds.

Where are the positives to Master Chief? If I wanted a Space Marine, there's far better ones to choose from; DoomGuy is one, or just about any of 40K's one million Adeptus Astartes.
 

spyrewolf

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really i wouldn't slam them unless they gave the game a 5, the game is really well executed, very beautiful, and looks amazing, but.....
a.) its a FPS,[been done to death]
b.)the voice acting needs a bit of polish not terrible but not great.

i have no idea how the multiplayer is or how the story is so i can not comment but these are factors that could stop this game from being brilliant. this also effect the longevity for me. i still play battlefield:BC to death simply cos the multiplayer is soo damn fun.

either way its a must buy for me.
 

RAKais

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Wargamer said:
RAKais said:
Wargamer said:
RAKais said:
Isn't it funny how people slag Master Chief off yet he is now one of the most iconic gaming figures and the face of the xbox 360?
You can be 'iconic' for all the wrong reasons; there are plenty of famous serial killers around.

yes because Master Chief is an iconic figure for all the wrong reasons ¬_¬ honestly.
He is. There's nothing particularly likeable about the guy, (being a Generic Space Marine with Generic Kick-Ass Attitude), his game system has tanked horribly even going by 'day of release' quality, and he is the mascot for the slack-jawed retards who ensure that nobody will EVER associate Xbox Live with anything beyond a bunch of arrogant thirteen year olds.

Where are the positives to Master Chief? If I wanted a Space Marine, there's far better ones to choose from; DoomGuy is one, or just about any of 40K's one million Adeptus Astartes.
and that is why I refuse to take your opinion seriously. I think it is unfair to judge a game solely on the people who play it. It is not Bungie's or Halo's fault arrogant thirteen year olds play it and make the most excellent online system not as enjoyable for some. I have yet to see a game put so much effort into building the story and background for an FPS as much as Bungie have for Halo.

Master Chief is anything but generic and how can you compare a rich interesting character as the Master Chief? If you perhaps read some of the novels that have come out alongside the game or even paid attention to the game itself you would realise why he has become the face of the Xbox. He was the face of the Xbox before xbox live and I find MC a far better character than Doomguy (who hasn't even got a proper name) or any of the Adeptus Astartes (they belong on the table top, on RTSs and in novels)

GAH. I hate people who needlessly hop on the Halo hate wagon.
 

KDR_11k

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For a scoring system I'd prefer a par/bogey/birdie system like in golf. Par (0) means the game is good enough that there's enjoyment to be had there (but the competition probably outperforms it and you'd be better off buying something else if that's available but if it's not you can still buy the game and have fun with it). I believe par would also be the average since I believe that the majority of games is actually good enough to be fun.

However with an uncapped scale I have a feeling reviewers would end up creating score inflation because they rate one game the best ever, then the sequel comes out and is predictably better so they award it a higher score, etc. Personally I think the only scale points worth having are +2..-2 with +1 (if we use positive = better, obviously that's not how golf works but it seems more intuitive as a score) being great (the various must-play games), -1 not fun, +2 so awesome you need profanities to describe it and will probably keep telling people they should go kill themselves for not buying the game and -2 being so broken you're lucky that your computer doesn't explode.

Yes, that ends up with another 5 point scale but I think the hard cutoff between good and bad would completely change the perception, plus making the main scale three point is IMO enough.

What I'm opposed to is buy/rent/ignore, there's still the intermediate step of "wait for a pricedrop" and I tend to place the cutoff point for full price purchases VERY high, moreso if full price means 70€ instead of 50€ (I haven't found a game for the 360 that would warrant a full price purchase for me). The result is that unless the game costs like 10€ to start with a "buy" recommendation usually gets downgraded to "wait" but in some cases an immediate purchase might be warranted, if the scale already topped out by then I won't be able to tell those games from the rest.

As for that PSX article, he may be right or he may be not but since he does not attack the text of the review, just the score his article is worthless and comes off as "my score is better than your score".

EDIT: Also I made no mentions of technical quality on purpose. Technical quality is a means to an end, that is making the technology not interfere with the fun. If the great graphics or whatnot make the game more fun (e.g. a game about exploration probably lives and dies with the interesting presentation of the discoveries) then it affects the total fun and therefore the score, if the game is faulty in a way that makes it frustrating that agian interferes with the fun. If it's neither I don't think it should affect the rating. I'm saying this because I think some reviewers have a tendency to add or subtract points based on the technical merits even when they don't affect much (e.g. giving extra points to MaBoShi for its polish of the extra features or deducting from Earth Defense Force for the obviously low budget design).
 

D_987

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Wargamer said:
The review tastes of hypocrisy.

The fact is, if you substituted the Killzone References for Halo references, you'd have a perfectly fair and valid Halo 3 review. Everyone proclaimed how fucking awesome Halo 3 was, and it wasn't. Now we're seeing people try and be 'cool' by slagging off Killzone 2. I obviously haven't playing anything bar the demo, but I seriously doubt it's a Halo 3 repeat.
So, your telling me that Halo is terrible, but got great reviews, and the same thing is happening with Killzone except Killzone is a "good" game?

Subjective

They are both great games, how can you possibly say Killzone 2 is great, but Halo 3 is not?
 

RAKais

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D_987 said:
Wargamer said:
The review tastes of hypocrisy.

The fact is, if you substituted the Killzone References for Halo references, you'd have a perfectly fair and valid Halo 3 review. Everyone proclaimed how fucking awesome Halo 3 was, and it wasn't. Now we're seeing people try and be 'cool' by slagging off Killzone 2. I obviously haven't playing anything bar the demo, but I seriously doubt it's a Halo 3 repeat.
So, your telling me that Halo is terrible, but got great reviews, and the same thing is happening with Killzone except Killzone is a "good" game?

Subjective

They are both great games, how can you possibly say Killzone 2 is great, but Halo 3 is not?
Thank you.

I think Ps3 owners are foaming at the mouth a little. They need to calm down.
 

Syphonz

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Killzone 2 > Halo 3. Matter of opinion. I just answered your question.

Nothing factual really needed for my personal opinion.
 

AceDiamond

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Wargamer said:
...his game system has tanked horribly even going by 'day of release' quality...
Yes becauese the PS3 has been selling so very very well and...no wait, no it hasn't.
 

VaioStreams

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i didn't read the review. but the guy reviewing it might not have liked FPS. Lets not forget reviewing games is a business and sometimes giving it a high school is just for namesake. Personally. I loved what I've played. I'm buying it as soon as i get my hand on some more money
 

AceDiamond

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Indigo_Dingo said:
AceDiamond said:
Indigo_Dingo said:
AceDiamond said:
Bulletinmybrain said:
Richard Groovy Pants said:
Follow me here.

7/10 = B.

B = Good.

Is B a low mark to be given away nowadays? I wish I had some B's once in a while in maths.

Pah, this won't be affecting me as I:

1) Don't pay attention to reviews.
2) Don't own a PS3.
3) I'm sick of generic FPS's.
In a 100% system a 70 is a D. (By American standards.)
No 70 is a C-

Also 70 =/= 7/10. On a 10 point scale a 5 is average. I don't know how hard it is for people to grasp this simple concept.
Because it goes by the same system of grading as the lettered one, with 50% being a fail.
Yeah except for that part where it doesn't, which is what I just said but you chose to ignore in favor of being wrong. I have no idea why you decided that was the best course of action.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best, what does that make 5? Average. The 10 point scale is not about percentages and anybody who attempts to take the Grade Letter, Percentage, and 10-point ratings systems and claim they are all interchangeable or (even worse) the same is easily and unquestionably wrong.
The difference is that every other game reviewer inherently adopted the grading system, since games are more expensive than than anything else being reviewed and thus the consumer needs to know they are of a higher than average standard.

The grading equivilant system is the standard for games journalism, and it would be a lot easier if people like you who cling to this idea that it should adhere to your system causes both to break down.
Actually the difference here is that nobody did that thing you said. The blame rests entirely with you and people like you for attempting to find ways to rationalize scores just because you can't accept that maybe Killzone 2 isn't the infinite power of Christ in video game form to everybody. It is the fault of people with shoddy perception that can't figure out the difference between percentages and the 10-point-scale, among other grading systems. I don't consider a 3 out of 5 a bad grade from X-Play even though people claim it's a "60%" because

1. No it isn't

and

2. They explain what a 3 out of 5 means to them.

But whatever, continue to live in your world where you believe you're right. It seems to be working out for you so far as long as you don't talk to anybody. A true serious gamer, as other people have said, wouldn't listen to reviews. They'd play games that get a 30% (Solid Ice) or a 4 out of 10 (Micro Machines 64) and somehow find some enjoyment out of it, and not have their perceptions influenced by the press.
 

Uncompetative

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KDR_11k said:
For a scoring system I'd prefer a par/bogey/birdie system like in golf. Par (0) means the game is good enough that there's enjoyment to be had there (but the competition probably outperforms it and you'd be better off buying something else if that's available but if it's not you can still buy the game and have fun with it). I believe par would also be the average since I believe that the majority of games is actually good enough to be fun.

However with an uncapped scale I have a feeling reviewers would end up creating score inflation because they rate one game the best ever, then the sequel comes out and is predictably better so they award it a higher score, etc. Personally I think the only scale points worth having are +2..-2 with +1 (if we use positive = better, obviously that's not how golf works but it seems more intuitive as a score) being great (the various must-play games), -1 not fun, +2 so awesome you need profanities to describe it and will probably keep telling people they should go kill themselves for not buying the game and -2 being so broken you're lucky that your computer doesn't explode.

Yes, that ends up with another 5 point scale but I think the hard cutoff between good and bad would completely change the perception, plus making the main scale three point is IMO enough.

What I'm opposed to is buy/rent/ignore, there's still the intermediate step of "wait for a pricedrop" and I tend to place the cutoff point for full price purchases VERY high, moreso if full price means 70€ instead of 50€ (I haven't found a game for the 360 that would warrant a full price purchase for me). The result is that unless the game costs like 10€ to start with a "buy" recommendation usually gets downgraded to "wait" but in some cases an immediate purchase might be warranted, if the scale already topped out by then I won't be able to tell those games from the rest.

As for that PSX article, he may be right or he may be not but since he does not attack the text of the review, just the score his article is worthless and comes off as "my score is better than your score".

EDIT: Also I made no mentions of technical quality on purpose. Technical quality is a means to an end, that is making the technology not interfere with the fun. If the great graphics or whatnot make the game more fun (e.g. a game about exploration probably lives and dies with the interesting presentation of the discoveries) then it affects the total fun and therefore the score, if the game is faulty in a way that makes it frustrating that agian interferes with the fun. If it's neither I don't think it should affect the rating. I'm saying this because I think some reviewers have a tendency to add or subtract points based on the technical merits even when they don't affect much (e.g. giving extra points to MaBoShi for its polish of the extra features or deducting from Earth Defense Force for the obviously low budget design).
Fascinating read. I hadn't thought of a golf analogy.
 

McClaud

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Wargamer said:
The review tastes of hypocrisy.

The fact is, if you substituted the Killzone References for Halo references, you'd have a perfectly fair and valid Halo 3 review. Everyone proclaimed how fucking awesome Halo 3 was, and it wasn't. Now we're seeing people try and be 'cool' by slagging off Killzone 2. I obviously haven't playing anything bar the demo, but I seriously doubt it's a Halo 3 repeat.

The other area that annoys the hell out of me is the claims that it 'lacks originality'. Striving to be 'original' has almost become a way to destroy gaming; the reason Dynasty Warriors continues to succeed is not because we're all idiots, it's because it gives us exactly what we want each time, just with a little bit of improvement.

I want a new FPS. I do not want a point-and-click interface, I do not want an inventory screen taken from a JRPG, I don't want to have to order a squad around, I don't like Portable Armouries, I don't want a love interest, I don't give a shit about your Grandma, and I sure as hell don't want to be playing as Master Chief. The notion that a FPS that leaves out all this unnecessary and pointless crap is somehow BAD is shocking to me. Games do not need gimmicks; if they have real quality, it will shine through.

Killzone 2 looks to be excellent, and the lack of 'innovation' will only make it better.
I don't want a portion of those things either, but I do want to be able to do something other than repeat what I do in other FPS's over and over again.

And KZ2 does that in spades.

I'm not saying it's not fun, but it's not going to be the Holy Grail of FPS's by any means. There's still something left to be desired in playing it, and I realized that it merely put me through the regular paces for a FPS. Which is fun, but not spectacular or exciting.

For me, it will probably last until something innovative does come along, and then I'll stop playing KZ2 to go play that game. COD4 easily replaced Halo 3 for my multiplayer needs, and now KZ2 will probably replace COD4 for awhile.

But I'll play TF2 on the PC for probably another year or more, because that is a lot more fun than the KZ2 demo was. The repeated formula plus some innovation won me over in that game (and I was probably the largest critic in my circle of friends when it was announced).