Is America a mainly Conservative Country?

[Callate]

55% of the country wants to repeal it and I really do think it should have went up to a national vote instead of "representatives". Of course before it was passed Obama forbade anyone from going back to their home states to talk with the public, they could only do it by taking money out of their warchest for the next election.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/36059256#36059256 <--another interesting report that came out after the vote. Im saying that the reps didn't properly rep the public and that this bill was just another payoff.

Riiight. I bet you were all for a popular vote in the 2000 presidential election as well.

Funny thing, this thing called democracy. You don't get to pick and choose whichever system gets your side its way on a moment-to-moment basis. Sometimes that sucks for your side. Up until recently, this seemed to be something that grown-ups, especially grown-ups foolish enough to want to get into public office, recognized. Now, it's whatever venue, as many times as it takes, to win; damn the cost, damn the consequences.

I want to believe this nonsense is cyclical, and that we'll eventually get back even to a level of grudging mutual respect. I want to believe that the level of animosity has been this bad before. But I'm pretty certain it hasn't been in my lifetime.

 

[JWAN]

I think my favorite one is how Pelosi is hanging in at 11% positive and Reid is at a whopping 8% positive.

Umm... Nice, I actually have no idea who those people are (though I would be much obliged if you were to inform me) I'm just here because people seem hell-bent on making it look like people who don't like that Obama is trying to make public option the only option are loonies (wow that was drawn out). And they are complaining about bias. I don't have a problem with health care reform in all honesty, just not the way they are doing it.

From CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000937-503544.html

Unfortunately man I gotta side with the loonies to a point. But I don't think its Obama who wants to control the medical system. I'm thinking its the large liberal faction that's in his camp. He bought the auto industry, the government bought out the banks, it sure doesn't make him look good.

 

[JWAN]

55% of the country wants to repeal it and I really do think it should have went up to a national vote instead of "representatives". Of course before it was passed Obama forbade anyone from going back to their home states to talk with the public, they could only do it by taking money out of their warchest for the next election.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/36059256#36059256 <--another interesting report that came out after the vote. Im saying that the reps didn't properly rep the public and that this bill was just another payoff.

Riiight. I bet you were all for a popular vote in the 2000 presidential election as well.

Funny thing, this thing called democracy. You don't get to pick and choose whichever system gets your side its way on a moment-to-moment basis. Sometimes that sucks for your side. Up until recently, this seemed to be something that grown-ups, especially grown-ups foolish enough to want to get into public office, recognized. Now, it's whatever venue, as many times as it takes, to win; damn the cost, damn the consequences.

I want to believe this nonsense is cyclical, and that we'll eventually get back even to a level of grudging mutual respect. I want to believe that the level of animosity has been this bad before. But I'm pretty certain it hasn't been in my lifetime.

Its a Republic. And when the reps need to pay OUT OF POCKET to talk about health care reform in their districts it raises eyebrows to that whole "visibility" stuff Obama was talking about.

 

[ZergInfestedJesus]

The USA is very conservative, that should be rather clear.

The people are slightly to the right, the government is naturally left. Ask the people whether they want more or less government intervention in their lives, and usually you will get a less response.

Actually, polls show that 50something% of Americans support the Health Care Bill.

None that weren't passed down straight from the White House. The vast majority of polls would suggest upwards of 65-70% against.

Source?
Because I've quite sure only fox news is giving out those numbers, and those numbers were wrong.

http://politics.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2010/03/21/4048693-the-house-has-passed-an-historic-health-care-overhaul-are-you-excited-or-angry?GT1=43001

MSNBC the most liberal of the liberal

I live in Australia and can vote in that poll. A online poll isn't worth much and isn't what I was talking about.

Considering people in other countries ***** so much about how America didn't have socialized medicine its pretty funny to see that the "yes" column is so damn low even though anyone on the planet can vote for it.

Do you have any real poll or just funny one liners?
(Note: What you said really was funny, but I'm trying to be serious)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
55% of the country wants to repeal it and I really do think it should have went up to a national vote instead of "representatives".

How about you do a non biased poll sight. It is well known rasmussen advances right wing talking points. But hey while were throwing poll numbers out there

Uh oh son, looks like we have conflicting reports.

Well you used a liberal bent source. So I guess we take an average. Thats from USA Today, you might as well ask Obamas cabinet what they think. It totally depends on where you poll.

So when the polls don't go your way Gallup becomes liberally biased? Hell most liberals consider gallup to have a conservative bias. I decided to list that as an example because even gallup had a majority favoring healthcare. Rasmussen on the other hand is just a joke. First of all they do not even use actual people but machines. Next they load up their questions with as much bias as they can contain. Here is how most pollsters asked a question
"What do you think would benefit the economy more at this time: cutting taxes on individuals and businesses, or increasing spending on items like infrastructure and other programs?"
Here is how Ramussen asked it "Do you agree or disagree with the following statement... it?s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money?

Hell if I asked questions like that I could get any issue to go my way.
If I asked the question "Do you think that insurance companies, who make money from denying you care, should have a monopoly on the market and deny competition from a not for profit enterprise.
Hell I could get 75%+ of the population to inadvertently support a public option or single payer based on the way I asked a question.

 

[Agayek]

I don't blame the rich for all problems, only the big one. See my next response after this one.

You seem to think it is easy to lift yourself out of poorness. But that's a psychologically flawed view, and I'm not convinced that such a recovery is something you can do purely for yourself. If you start out poor, you end up with a bad education. You can't really work as a child these days so you can't reach up further until you turn about 15. Even then, it's impossible to fund a good college or university degree because you didn't get a good education straight off. You're also more vulnerable to sickness due to the high expenses of health care, and are further disadvantaged should your parents manage to scrounge together an education.

This all adds up to a domino effect or vicious cycle of difficulty that relies on a great amount of luck and hard work to conquer. The trouble is, motivation doesn't just come psychologically from inside - we find strength in our community. But if our community is as disadvantaged as we are, there's no hope to absorb there. We lack the motivation to work our way out of the ghetto.

The bottom line is: you have to have universal approaches to welfare so that you cut off the lack of motivation, luck and the cycle itself at the roots. Anything else - foodstamps, charity, whatever - just solves the symptoms, not the problem. That whole part of the American Dream where people can work themselves out of poverty is a fantasy. It isn't like that in the real world.

Sorry, but I just have to say that you are dead wrong here. I know at least half a dozen people who grew up as, quite literally, dirt poor farmers in Po-dunk California, who now have 6-figure salaries. It takes a hell of a lot of sweat and elbow grease, but it can certainly be done. As an example, my father was born on aforementioned farm in the middle of nowhere, and his parents' could barely afford one set of clothes for he and each of his siblings. Twentyish years later he's working his ass off and graduating from UC Davis with a doctorate. Another 15 years later and he's got an annual income of approximately $150,000 after taxes.

If one is willing to work their ass off, they can most certainly pull themselves out of poverty, at the very least. Anyone who says otherwise is either lazy or in denial.

 

[JWAN]

The USA is very conservative, that should be rather clear.

The people are slightly to the right, the government is naturally left. Ask the people whether they want more or less government intervention in their lives, and usually you will get a less response.

Actually, polls show that 50something% of Americans support the Health Care Bill.

None that weren't passed down straight from the White House. The vast majority of polls would suggest upwards of 65-70% against.

Source?
Because I've quite sure only fox news is giving out those numbers, and those numbers were wrong.

http://politics.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2010/03/21/4048693-the-house-has-passed-an-historic-health-care-overhaul-are-you-excited-or-angry?GT1=43001

MSNBC the most liberal of the liberal

I live in Australia and can vote in that poll. A online poll isn't worth much and isn't what I was talking about.

Considering people in other countries ***** so much about how America didn't have socialized medicine its pretty funny to see that the "yes" column is so damn low even though anyone on the planet can vote for it.

Do you have any real poll or just funny one liners?
(Note: What you said really was funny, but I'm trying to be serious)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
55% of the country wants to repeal it and I really do think it should have went up to a national vote instead of "representatives".

How about you do a non biased poll sight. It is well known rasmussen advances right wing talking points. But hey while were throwing poll numbers out there

Uh oh son, looks like we have conflicting reports.

Well you used a liberal bent source. So I guess we take an average. Thats from USA Today, you might as well ask Obamas cabinet what they think. It totally depends on where you poll.

So when the polls don't go your way Gallup becomes liberally biased? Hell most liberals consider gallup to have a conservative bias. I decided to list that as an example because even gallup had a majority favoring healthcare. Rasmussen on the other hand is just a joke. First of all they do not even use actual people but machines. Next they load up their questions with as much bias as they can contain. Here is how most pollsters asked a question
"What do you think would benefit the economy more at this time: cutting taxes on individuals and businesses, or increasing spending on items like infrastructure and other programs?"
Here is how Ramussen asked it "Do you agree or disagree with the following statement... it?s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money?

Hell if I asked questions like that I could get any issue to go my way.
If I asked the question "Do you think that insurance companies, who make money from denying you care, should have a monopoly on the market and deny competition from a not for profit enterprise.
Hell I could get 75%+ of the population to inadvertently support a public option or single payer based on the way I asked a question.

Take a lesson from yourself there mate. USA Today is openly liberal. Rasmussen asks tough questions. It asks what do you believe. Do you believe in bureaucrats or the people. Its an opinion question that's no more slanted than any other polling source out there. Besides its asking the truth. The government bought the auto industry, the banks and the next step is controlling health care. Its asking who the people want in charge and the people give the answer.

 

[Agayek]

I'm not sure if you don't understand or if you disagree. After all, that's the Internet-official picture for 'Not this shit again,' not 'I don't get it.'

Either way, I think the three agreeing polls from the three largest statistics institutes in the country should either help edify you or... well, help edify you, whatever the case may be.

I think what he's face palming is the guy he quoted saying "We're mid-right" then, in the same sentence, saying "We're to the left of center."

 

[ZergInfestedJesus]

The USA is very conservative, that should be rather clear.

The people are slightly to the right, the government is naturally left. Ask the people whether they want more or less government intervention in their lives, and usually you will get a less response.

Actually, polls show that 50something% of Americans support the Health Care Bill.

None that weren't passed down straight from the White House. The vast majority of polls would suggest upwards of 65-70% against.

Source?
Because I've quite sure only fox news is giving out those numbers, and those numbers were wrong.

http://politics.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2010/03/21/4048693-the-house-has-passed-an-historic-health-care-overhaul-are-you-excited-or-angry?GT1=43001

MSNBC the most liberal of the liberal

I live in Australia and can vote in that poll. A online poll isn't worth much and isn't what I was talking about.

Considering people in other countries ***** so much about how America didn't have socialized medicine its pretty funny to see that the "yes" column is so damn low even though anyone on the planet can vote for it.

Do you have any real poll or just funny one liners?
(Note: What you said really was funny, but I'm trying to be serious)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
55% of the country wants to repeal it and I really do think it should have went up to a national vote instead of "representatives".

How about you do a non biased poll sight. It is well known rasmussen advances right wing talking points. But hey while were throwing poll numbers out there

Uh oh son, looks like we have conflicting reports.

Well you used a liberal bent source. So I guess we take an average. Thats from USA Today, you might as well ask Obamas cabinet what they think. It totally depends on where you poll.

So when the polls don't go your way Gallup becomes liberally biased? Hell most liberals consider gallup to have a conservative bias. I decided to list that as an example because even gallup had a majority favoring healthcare. Rasmussen on the other hand is just a joke. First of all they do not even use actual people but machines. Next they load up their questions with as much bias as they can contain. Here is how most pollsters asked a question
"What do you think would benefit the economy more at this time: cutting taxes on individuals and businesses, or increasing spending on items like infrastructure and other programs?"
Here is how Ramussen asked it "Do you agree or disagree with the following statement... it?s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money?

Hell if I asked questions like that I could get any issue to go my way.
If I asked the question "Do you think that insurance companies, who make money from denying you care, should have a monopoly on the market and deny competition from a not for profit enterprise.
Hell I could get 75%+ of the population to inadvertently support a public option or single payer based on the way I asked a question.

Take a lesson from yourself there mate. USA Today is openly liberal. Rasmussen asks tough questions. It asks what do you believe. Do you believe in bureaucrats or the people. Its an opinion question that's no more slanted than any other polling source out there.

Ask tough questions my ass.
So if I linked a poll that had 75% of the population in support of single payer because the question asked Do you think that insurance companies, who make money from denying you care, should have a monopoly on the market and deny competition from a not for profit enterprise., would you then consider that non biased. Cause according to you it isn't biased, it is just asking the tough questions.

 

[Agayek]

Look the whole point of democracy is to vote people in who do more than just parrot public opinion, that's what referendums are for.

The point of voting someone in is not "will this guy vote exactly as I will vote" but rather "Will this guy make best decisions overall". You ARE submitting a lot of your decisions to him or her as the masses judge that they will make the right decision, even if it's not the same decision they'd make even as an aggregate group.

If it is somehow a compulsion for politicians to directly follow the poll opinion of the population well then why not just get rid of the Senators and Representatives all together! We have the technology to let every single piece of legislation be decided by referendum, just do it via the internet. But sometimes the majority want what will harm a minority. Sometimes the population has to just take their bitter medicine as their elected leaders realise it is for the greater good.

Democracy is to vote people into power on that basis that they are GOOD people and they care for the welfare of each and every one of their citizens.

Of course 75% will be opposed to to this healthcare bill as THEY WON'T BENEFIT FROM IT because the majority ALREADY have health insurance but what about the little guy? How will the last 10% of Americans get medical insurance?

You are depending purely on altruism with just following public opinion.

One cuts, the other chooses, that's what happens when people vote politicians into power.

Technically, the US is a republic, rather than a democracy, for precisely the reason you mention.

Democracy is mob rule.

Republics are electing officials to make the major decisions.

 

[Agayek]

I think my favorite one is how Pelosi is hanging in at 11% positive and Reid is at a whopping 8% positive.

Umm... Nice, I actually have no idea who those people are (though I would be much obliged if you were to inform me) I'm just here because people seem hell-bent on making it look like people who don't like that Obama is trying to make public option the only option are loonies (wow that was drawn out). And they are complaining about bias. I don't have a problem with health care reform in all honesty, just not the way they are doing it.

Pelosi is the Speaker of the House, I believe. She's the House of Representatives Majority Leader, and has no small amount of influence in Congress.

Reid is the Senate Majority Leader, basically Pelosi's equivalent in the Senate.

 

[Dys]

That seems a little like asking if water's wet....Yes, America is very, very conservative.

How do you figure?

Are you serious? Mainstream media isn't allowed to say words like "hell", it's considered taboo to mutter anything remotely blasphemous. People seem to uniformly vote for low tax, protest health care and generally don't believe in public schools. Compared to the rest of the western world they have (in general, some states are more left wing and closer to the rest of the western world) little to no public infrastructure.

The general belief seems to be that things should be done privately and not by the g'ment. The whole "cut taxes at all costs" mentality reflects this, I mean, even the roads are more poorly maintained than most of the western world (they seem to be in as poor condition as Australian roads, and that's truly bad), I could go on about the lack of consumer protection but I feel I've made my point. I will say, however, that even the president has to sign in under the Christian god, how can that be construed as anything other than extreme conservatism? (that's right, I made an 'ism' out of the word conservative, you're all screwed now mwahahahahahahahahahaha!).

All states have public schools, public nursing homes and public transportation, government run mail and government gun registration. Who builds our roads and bridges and maintains our canals anyway? The media has no constraints other than keeping the language cleaner than some countries but its not the most by far (apparently you've never watched American broadcasts). We vote for lower taxes so that businesses don't have to raise prices to raise the cost of living on the middle class usually, but if you know anything about current events we elected a hyper liberal named Obama who is turning that over. Public schools are supported universally. Now the government owns the auto industry, the banks and has a wing in health care.

The government is supposed to protect the people from outside forces and allow them to live their lives with minimal interference...that's a founding belief and its best that way. Consumer protection is the right for people to make wise decisions and if something goes wrong they can report it to the consumer protection agency (another public service). We have 6,465,799 km of roadways that's 5,652,827 more km of roadway more than Australia therefore a little more difficult to maintain. We also have to maintain more rail lines and airports. Everything is more extensive in this country because of vast distances and therefore needs more time and energy to update or repair than a country like Australia that only has to worry about a few environments and a lot less equipment to watch like Australia. In other words a country that is logistically extensive like the US will need more stuff to keep everything moving correctly. The president signs in under "God" not "Christian God" and I cannot believe how many people bring that up and assume that there is only one religion on this planet that calls their God "God".

Wow that's a long argument, and I suppose I could go ahead and argue against it in a uniform and well thought out way, however I've been up for 12 and a half hours having had 4 hours sleep, and am in no shape to go over the finer points now. When I say America is conservative, I mean compared to what I'm used of. My experience of the U.S.A is very limited, as I've only really spoke to people in california, colorado and hawai so I can't really comment on the norms in say, New York (The actual states vary a lot more over there than they do here). I will attempt to engage in some discussion, but let it be known that I apologize if I don't make complete sense, as my brain is hardly working right now.

Right, the language filters on telivision thing, again I emphasize my experience isn't nationwide, but from what I've seen words like "hell", "shit" etc are censored, even in movies/tv shows that are aimed at children (a particularly apparent example is the censorship I saw in the matrix), I don't care if you think that it's right or wrong to say bad words on tv, it is a very conservative approach.

Yes you have public services (schools, transport, housing etc), however far less than other developed nations. A straight up example of this is the unemployment benifets given out in Australia (for the sake of ease I'm going to compare to the system I'm familiar with). Those on low or no income receive money from the government, I beleive it can be in excess of $300 a week, to live and on top of that they are eligable for a health care card, which entitles them to subsidized medicines, train tickets and other perceived neciessities. Pensioners (I've read that over 1/3rd of which have over $1million of assets) are also eligable (I don't mean to make it obvious, but this system shits me and drains a huge amount of money, as is probably evident from my tone, I do not like how this system is run), these benifets are indefinate (or at least until one earns over the minimum limit), public housing is also available as are student payments (even for students still living at home, provided they have previously earned enough money to be 'independant'). My understand (from what I've learned from people in and around LA) is that the goverment benifets are exhausted after two weeks of unemployment, that is relativey conservative.

As for my comment on consumer protection, I saw a lot of advertisements that were straight up lies (on TV and otherwise) during my time in the USA, this does not happen in Australia. While I don't mean they made specific claims that were false (nobody tried to claim McDonalds has no sugar in it or anything like that) a lot of people (especially insurance companies and car companies) made claims compared to their direct competition (usually claiming to be far cheaper, far more fuel efficent etc), the fact of the matter is they cannot all be cheaper than each other, over here, you cannot make claims directly involving your competitors.

Yes, America is much bigger than Australia and needs a lot more roadwork done, you have far more road. It may interest you to know that in my state, for a small car, the registration is somewhere in the $650 region (it gets much higher for SUVs or commercial vehicles). During my time in Hawai I discovered that road registration was closer to the $100 mark (provided there's nothing wrong with your car, yes Australian cars still have to have a roadworthy check and be mechanically sound). Yes you guys have a lot more road to maintain, but you also have a lot more people to pay for it. Australians pay out the ass for our shit roads, and we maintain them as best as is reasonable, Americans seem to do the bear minimum as far as road maintanence is concerned. Also, I feel the need to point out that while the USA is bigger than Australia in terms of landmass, the difference is as much as many people seem to think (US is ~9629091 km2 and AU is ~7686850km2), this means your population density per square km is 138.6 while ours is 2.7 (due to you having so many more people)[footnote]source[/footnote]. That's basicially me elaboratly calling bullshit on your claim that things are harder to maintain, larger workforce per landmass makes things easier and cheaper. Again, yes you tend to have a greater variety of environmental effects, but we are generally a lot hotter, and from an engineering standpoint thats a lot more of a pain to design for (it isn't unusual to get 45C/113F+ degree days anywhere on the continent), so in essence that means our infrastructure shit breaks a lot more, as far as designing for the environment goes, you guys really don't have it any harder than us.

It is refering the the christian god, and you know it. The majority of American people would be outraged if they thought they had a jewish or muslim (I recall there being some such nonsense about Obama being a muslim) president, I can't imagine them being too happy with a hindu or budhist president either (and most certainly not an atheist, it's actually illegal for an atheist to hold office in some states).

If you want to think America is liberal, that's fine, it's your perogative, but I assure you the majority of the developed world disagrees.

 

[Knight Templar]

The USA is very conservative, that should be rather clear.

The people are slightly to the right, the government is naturally left. Ask the people whether they want more or less government intervention in their lives, and usually you will get a less response.

Actually, polls show that 50something% of Americans support the Health Care Bill.

None that weren't passed down straight from the White House. The vast majority of polls would suggest upwards of 65-70% against.

Source?
Because I've quite sure only fox news is giving out those numbers, and those numbers were wrong.

http://politics.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2010/03/21/4048693-the-house-has-passed-an-historic-health-care-overhaul-are-you-excited-or-angry?GT1=43001

MSNBC the most liberal of the liberal

I live in Australia and can vote in that poll. A online poll isn't worth much and isn't what I was talking about.

Considering people in other countries ***** so much about how America didn't have socialized medicine its pretty funny to see that the "yes" column is so damn low even though anyone on the planet can vote for it.

Do you have any real poll or just funny one liners?
(Note: What you said really was funny, but I'm trying to be serious)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
55% of the country wants to repeal it and I really do think it should have went up to a national vote instead of "representatives". Of course before it was passed Obama forbade anyone from going back to their home states to talk with the public, they could only do it by taking money out of their warchest for the next election.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/36059256#36059256 <--another interesting report that came out after the vote. Im saying that the reps didn't properly rep the public and that this bill was just another payoff.

So a right wing website comes up woth 55%? A number I'll point out was closer to me than johnny, and my original point.
You'll forgive me if I don't trust that site all that well. How lage was the sample size? Who did they ask? What did they ask?
I didn't find the answer to these question, but to be honest I'm losing intrest at this point.

So thank you for providing links but I'm done with this.
EDIT: Just saw "methodolgy", but as I said, I'm finished here.

 

[Spinozaad]

Yes, I think it is. Of course, there are enough people similar to me, but in the end; America is far more conservative than I am.

 

[Samcanuck]

It all depends what you compare 'being conservative' to mean. Even Canada's most right wing party is left wing compared to the U.S's democratic party. It's no wonder why many Americans think Canada's a socialist country. The NDP are pretty damn close to being just that...and thats who I presently vote for.

The United States to me is very Right wing....Conservative you could call it. Any country that feel's a social pot to help tax payers and needy citizens as being 'economically wrong' or 'fundamentally wrong' is far more right wing. And I get the general feel that the United states as a whole believes this. Capitalism vs mixed economy you could say.

Most Canadians believe (though many *****) in social pot's such as health care, Canadian Pension Plan and Employment insurance. Many even bank on that assistance since each tax payer pays for these services throughout there lives.
You ask a hard core Right wing though, betcha they disagree on the merits of social pots.

And that to me is the U.S. A land full of right wingers when compared to my typical next door neighboor and me.

 

[Artina89]

I'm British, but nearly all of my buddies and their families in the states are democrats, but I think its easy to think that America is mainly a conservative country, because the republicans are very vocal. However, I think it depends on the state and/or city that you happen to be in. Most of my buddies live in New York city which by my very limited experience seems to be leaning more to democrat (please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong).

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Compared to Europe I suppose they are.

I'm not going to touch the rest of this mess with a fifty-foot pole.

 

[steelguy17]

You cant base it on past republican and democratic presidents, cause well the democrats used to be the republicans at one point, and the democrats were the conservatives. Its split pretty even if you go by elections also. I think America is changing into a much more liberal nation, especially with the youth which I find to be very liberal, even though I myself am a conservative.

 

[Win Laik Pya]

There has been primarily more Republican Presidents than Democratic Presidents.

The Republicans have been conservative since maybe Hoover (and he's debatable). Between Lincoln and Coolidge, on the other hand...

Even in the 1960's, the US has been primarily conservative, despite the very VOCAL liberal members.

...source?

In the 2000 and 2004 elections, despite the pro liberal media blitz, Bush was elected.

What liberal media? Air America is only a few years old.

Is America a primarily conservative or liberal country? I think it's primarily conservative personally.

By who's standards? By our own, we're quite moderate. Compared to the Middle East, we're fairly liberal (although certain countries are starting to catch up). Compared to Europe, we're conservative.

arguement over 4 posts in. Why is there 6 pages of this?

 

[Silva]

Sorry, but I just have to say that you are dead wrong here. I know at least half a dozen people who grew up as, quite literally, dirt poor farmers in Po-dunk California, who now have 6-figure salaries. It takes a hell of a lot of sweat and elbow grease, but it can certainly be done. As an example, my father was born on aforementioned farm in the middle of nowhere, and his parents' could barely afford one set of clothes for he and each of his siblings. Twentyish years later he's working his ass off and graduating from UC Davis with a doctorate. Another 15 years later and he's got an annual income of approximately $150,000 after taxes.

If one is willing to work their ass off, they can most certainly pull themselves out of poverty, at the very least. Anyone who says otherwise is either lazy or in denial.

Your arguments are all based on personal experience.

I was speaking in larger terms than your six friends. I'm talking about a system of suffering that continues to perpetuate itself because no one has made a counter-system that prevents it from happening to anyone.

Your particular examples may have worked hard, but they must have had some good luck too. To be specific, living in California wasn't necessarily a bad scenario to find work and therefore get into a better situation compared to most states, at least before the current recession. Not to mention, your soon-to-be doctor friend chose to be intelligent at an early age. Not everyone is so responsible in childhood, and if they're not and the parents aren't for them, then they're screwed - for life. A culture of no support does not allow most people to remove themselves from poverty.

Calling others lazy is an excuse for not proving yourself the better man, and helping them to stop suffering. It's selfish and cruel. Especially when it comes to the intellectually and physically disadvantaged, who, before current health care reforms, would have had no support if born into poverty (which many are, that being the reason for becoming disabled half the time).

 

[asinann]

The problem lies mostly in the people that were chased over here in the beginning. The puritans were too conservative for the Europeans back in the 1500's so we got started with them. We were getting better there for a few decades, then Ronald Regan got elected and threw all progress out the window. Also keep in mind, the Republican party was the liberal group up until about 40 years ago with the Democrats being the conservatives.