Is Anime really more mature than Western cartoons?

[Good morning blues]

As I guy that has watched a lot of anime and only enjoyed a very, very small portion of it, I can assure everyone that anime is at least as stupid and vacant as Western animation.

Could you please list some of the anime you've seen? You might have just seen the crap put on TV here, like 4kids dubs and Naruto (seriously, I know he's supposed to be young and obnoxious, but that voice is just too shrill), or just some random crap (sturgeons law, of course).

But yes, some anime (like Eiken) achieves levels of stupidity beyond pretty much any western cartoons. Not all of it, though.

I have seen the ones that were heavily localized for the North American audience (Pokemon, Digimon and such), the ones that tweens and young teenagers watch when they're starting to get into anime (Evangelion, Gundam Wing, Escaflowne and so forth) and of the more obscure ones that my anime nerd friends made me suffer through (Hellsing, Record of the Lodoss War, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, etc.). This is far from an exhaustive list of shows I've seen, as I've skipped over several, there are at a few that I can remember the basic concept of but not the name (one giant robot one where they all lived on a submarine or something, one where about the stock super-quiet-girl-who-is-actually-a-stone-cold-killer where she was a government agent or something), and more than I even want to think about that I've seen bits and pieces of.

Basically, I've seen more anime than I ever wanted to, and I've only liked a couple of titles, and I can state with absolute authority that even the titles that people are tossing out here (Evangelion, Hellsing, Ghost in the Shell) are, at best, pseudo-intellectual and wading-pool-shallow exercises in self-indulgence that raise no new points and make no interesting or original statements.

 

[Valiance]

No both have their juvenile and mature versions, neither trumps the other.

This.

Although the only mature western cartoon I know of that is serious or not grounded on comedy is Aeon flux.

Yeah. I can't think of many either, but there are plenty of terribly immature anime and terribly immature western cartoons. Anime tends to deal with more adult themes, overall, but that doesn't mean the characters or the plot or anything else is really developed in a mature fashion.

 

[TIMESWORDSMAN]

Anime's supposed to be mature?
Who says that?

Its not mature. Its just more mature than say, Ren and Stimpy or Road Runner. Y'know, generic western cartoons. Its ruffly on the same level as Transformers: The Movie (1986), save Really deep stuff like Cowboy Bebop.

P.S Transformers: The Movie is AWSOME! Revenge of the Fallen was shit!

 

[Kruxxor]

Cartoons in the west are seen as childish, regardless of what they depict. Which is why when Animé programs or films come to the UK the BBFC have a hard time rating them, because to them they're cartoons.

In Japan (I believe, anyway) Animé is aimed at everyone, young and old, and their programs represent this. You have the childrens programs (E.g Pokemon and Naruto) then you have the older viewers programs (E.g Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, Samurai Champloo etc)

So all in all, there are Animé aimed at mature audiences, but there's no western cartoons aimed at mature audiences (South Park could be argued)

 

[roboosh]

Serious cartoons aren't necessarily more mature, comedy can be mature too.
From my experiance though, anime is pervy therefore not mature.
EDIT: not all of it!!!! I like lots of the films

 

[A random person]

As I guy that has watched a lot of anime and only enjoyed a very, very small portion of it, I can assure everyone that anime is at least as stupid and vacant as Western animation.

Could you please list some of the anime you've seen? You might have just seen the crap put on TV here, like 4kids dubs and Naruto (seriously, I know he's supposed to be young and obnoxious, but that voice is just too shrill), or just some random crap (sturgeons law, of course).

But yes, some anime (like Eiken) achieves levels of stupidity beyond pretty much any western cartoons. Not all of it, though.

I have seen the ones that were heavily localized for the North American audience (Pokemon, Digimon and such), the ones that tweens and young teenagers watch when they're starting to get into anime (Evangelion, Gundam Wing, Escaflowne and so forth) and of the more obscure ones that my anime nerd friends made me suffer through (Hellsing, Record of the Lodoss War, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, etc.). This is far from an exhaustive list of shows I've seen, as I've skipped over several, there are at a few that I can remember the basic concept of but not the name (one giant robot one where they all lived on a submarine or something, one where about the stock super-quiet-girl-who-is-actually-a-stone-cold-killer where she was a government agent or something), and more than I even want to think about that I've seen bits and pieces of.

Basically, I've seen more anime than I ever wanted to, and I've only liked a couple of titles, and I can state with absolute authority that even the titles that people are tossing out here (Evangelion, Hellsing, Ghost in the Shell) are, at best, pseudo-intellectual and wading-pool-shallow exercises in self-indulgence that raise no new points and make no interesting or original statements.

A lot of people would agree with you on Evangelion and say it's just random symbolism with a screwed up cast. Hellsing isn't really intellectual, and keep in mind that the series isn't considered very good, it's the OVA that anime fans like, just if you saw the series. And I need to see Ghost in the Shell to judge on that.

Anime isn't trying to be profound or intellectual for the most part, like most mediums. I'll just take a guess here and say a lot of whether you like it or not is what you think of the conventions and style.

 

[Levk]

i say anime is not more but then again at least anime ends and people die unlike us stuff that goes on for ages with no end and people come back every week >< but then ima thinking of a lot and more about comics @@

 

[mhitman]

Depends on the show

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well, it'd also have to depend on one's definition of "mature". For me when someone says that the inclusion of gore and sex makes something mature, I have to resist the tremendous desire to take them out back and beat some sense into them with a two-by-four.

This.

Hence why I consider most Pixar films to be more mature than contemporary kids' shows, Western or Japanese. Sure there's no "adult" content, but they tend to take a serious manner and don't treat the audience like idiots, nor do they give the impression that mental retardation is an option in life (I'm looking at the likes of Spongebob and Naruto when I say that).

Precisely. Adult content =/= Mature content. In fact I've often found it's quite the contrary, which is why I have to laugh sometimes when I see some TV show disclaimers that talk about the program containing "mature subject matter".

 

[Good morning blues]

As I guy that has watched a lot of anime and only enjoyed a very, very small portion of it, I can assure everyone that anime is at least as stupid and vacant as Western animation.

Could you please list some of the anime you've seen? You might have just seen the crap put on TV here, like 4kids dubs and Naruto (seriously, I know he's supposed to be young and obnoxious, but that voice is just too shrill), or just some random crap (sturgeons law, of course).

But yes, some anime (like Eiken) achieves levels of stupidity beyond pretty much any western cartoons. Not all of it, though.

I have seen the ones that were heavily localized for the North American audience (Pokemon, Digimon and such), the ones that tweens and young teenagers watch when they're starting to get into anime (Evangelion, Gundam Wing, Escaflowne and so forth) and of the more obscure ones that my anime nerd friends made me suffer through (Hellsing, Record of the Lodoss War, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, etc.). This is far from an exhaustive list of shows I've seen, as I've skipped over several, there are at a few that I can remember the basic concept of but not the name (one giant robot one where they all lived on a submarine or something, one where about the stock super-quiet-girl-who-is-actually-a-stone-cold-killer where she was a government agent or something), and more than I even want to think about that I've seen bits and pieces of.

Basically, I've seen more anime than I ever wanted to, and I've only liked a couple of titles, and I can state with absolute authority that even the titles that people are tossing out here (Evangelion, Hellsing, Ghost in the Shell) are, at best, pseudo-intellectual and wading-pool-shallow exercises in self-indulgence that raise no new points and make no interesting or original statements.

A lot of people would agree with you on Evangelion and say it's just random symbolism with a screwed up cast. Hellsing isn't really intellectual, and keep in mind that the series isn't considered very good, it's the OVA that anime fans like, just if you saw the series. And I need to see Ghost in the Shell to judge on that.

Anime isn't trying to be profound or intellectual for the most part, like most mediums. I'll just take a guess here and say a lot of whether you like it or not is what you think of the conventions and style.

So by saying "Anime isn't trying to be profound or intellectual for the most part" you would agree that it's not particularly mature, and moreover that it's no more so than Western cartoons?

 

[barryween]

It is said so because how many cartoons do you see that deal with mature stories? There are mature cartoons (I know anime is cartoons also but I'll swap western stuff for cartoons) but not that deal with mature stuff. But there are so many anime that there are very shallow ones then there are many with deep complex mature plots. If cartoons with much variety were a social norm, people would not think this since there would be at least a few deep mature cartoons.

 

[historybuff]

There are lots of different genres with anime.

So it depends on what you watch.

There are juvenile, kids shows like Pokemon; sugary magical girl shows like Card Captor Sakura, intense gore and blood and death shows like Hellsing; shows with confusing concepts that your average teenager might not understand--like Lain; action/adventure with a side of intense battles and blood, like Samurai Champloo.

So I mean, really--you can't lay a baseline stereotype because there are different genres.

 

[Twilight_guy]

*looks at US cartoons* For the majority, yeah almost anything is more mature then that. Of course, I'm sure they both have crud and highlights.

 

[Jupsto]

Yet to get the big deal of anime. My friend was gona try and convert me with some full metal jacket and stuff like that.

But personally really dont understand why people are obsessed with it, liked it when I was a kid watching pokemon or dragonball, its just a cartoon style. and yeah like OP, seems just as shallow (or mature) as any other cartoon to me. but maybe I just haven't seen the good stuff yet.

 

[A random person]

As I guy that has watched a lot of anime and only enjoyed a very, very small portion of it, I can assure everyone that anime is at least as stupid and vacant as Western animation.

Could you please list some of the anime you've seen? You might have just seen the crap put on TV here, like 4kids dubs and Naruto (seriously, I know he's supposed to be young and obnoxious, but that voice is just too shrill), or just some random crap (sturgeons law, of course).

But yes, some anime (like Eiken) achieves levels of stupidity beyond pretty much any western cartoons. Not all of it, though.

I have seen the ones that were heavily localized for the North American audience (Pokemon, Digimon and such), the ones that tweens and young teenagers watch when they're starting to get into anime (Evangelion, Gundam Wing, Escaflowne and so forth) and of the more obscure ones that my anime nerd friends made me suffer through (Hellsing, Record of the Lodoss War, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, etc.). This is far from an exhaustive list of shows I've seen, as I've skipped over several, there are at a few that I can remember the basic concept of but not the name (one giant robot one where they all lived on a submarine or something, one where about the stock super-quiet-girl-who-is-actually-a-stone-cold-killer where she was a government agent or something), and more than I even want to think about that I've seen bits and pieces of.

Basically, I've seen more anime than I ever wanted to, and I've only liked a couple of titles, and I can state with absolute authority that even the titles that people are tossing out here (Evangelion, Hellsing, Ghost in the Shell) are, at best, pseudo-intellectual and wading-pool-shallow exercises in self-indulgence that raise no new points and make no interesting or original statements.

A lot of people would agree with you on Evangelion and say it's just random symbolism with a screwed up cast. Hellsing isn't really intellectual, and keep in mind that the series isn't considered very good, it's the OVA that anime fans like, just if you saw the series. And I need to see Ghost in the Shell to judge on that.

Anime isn't trying to be profound or intellectual for the most part, like most mediums. I'll just take a guess here and say a lot of whether you like it or not is what you think of the conventions and style.

So by saying "Anime isn't trying to be profound or intellectual for the most part" you would agree that it's not particularly mature, and moreover that it's no more so than Western cartoons?

Mature=/=Intellectual and profound, even if it's mature in a narrative sense and not all tits and gore. I also said it isn't trying to be profound for the most part, like most mediums. Neither are constantly trying to be deep and profound, but anime is more story based and dramatic, therefore more mature. Whether it succeeds or not at this, of course, is a matter of opinion, and mature doesn't mean good.

 

[A random person]

*looks at US cartoons* For the majority, yeah almost anything is more mature then that. Of course, I'm sure they both have crud and highlights.

Anime has Eiken and numerous shows with overused sexual gags, western cartoons have most of the stuff on Nick and Cartoon Network (not adult swim, which is pretty much the only reason to watch that channel).

 

[Rayansaki]

I don't think that anime is more mature strictly speaking, but the fact is that western cartoons are very animation-based (Sticking with the 12 fps, great movements, etc.) while anime has poorer animation and is alot more story based (Story has usually alot more depth and quality) which is why people consider it more "mature".
I think that the great and shiny animations of western cartoons appeal more to children that think it looks "cool", while the depth of the story in anime appeals more to people saturated with the crappy shiny looking western cartoons, which is usually people that have outgrown cartoons.

 

[A random person]

Well, serious western cartoons are taboo for some reason. That's not the case in Japan.

I think that while anime is often equally or less mature than western animation, it has a greater potential for maturity at this time.

I dunno, you'd have to be pretty immature to equal the crap on Nick and CN, let alone be less mature.

 

[GothmogII]

Let's talk grown-up stuff for the moment. So, here's a little challenge.

Can anyone here name a single, current, western animation, aimed at adults, that is not a comedy? And please, no Boondocks or Venture Bros. Dramatic moments they may have, but you are not passing those off as not being comedies.

I guess, if you get stumped, I'll extend it to say, the last, three, four years maybe?

I'd love to be proven wrong, really I would, but my -guess- is, no-one here is going to come up with anything. When asked for mature animation from the west, people will point at Mr.Bakshi, at Fritz the Cat or American Pop. Or maybe mention something from the 90s like The MAXX or Spawn. But the 00s? Be interesting to see if anything -does- come up.