Is chivalry dead?

[xMelior]

If you can vote and play in a proffesional hockey team, then you can open a door by yourself.

 

[Dyme]

I thought this thread was about horse riding,

Learning new words never has been sadder.

 

[Altorin]

If you can vote and play in a proffesional hockey team, then you can open a door by yourself.

very very true. There's nothing wrong with holding a door open for anyone. But the idea of chivalrous really is "They can't" or "They shouldn't have to", and it's a dangerous mindset, especially when men feel that somehow being chivalrous should give them extra benefits, and they get bitter because they're not getting those benefits. Really fucking dangerous imo.

 

[BGH122]

In the modern times we live in many people believe that chivalry and equal rights can't go hand in hand. But chivalry is the small things you do, such as hold a door open for a women or pull the chair out for them or wait for them to sit before sitting yourself. And I'm here to ask the Escapist, can equal rights between genders and chivalric values be maintained together? Or is it one or the other in an absolute sense?
And why?
I believe that they can be current in today's society, women can still have the same or even more rights then men in many situations, but does that mean we have to stop treating them how most of them deserve to be treated? Is it too much to show some respect to the female gender?

The respect you're referring to here isn't the respect one shows to an equal citizen, it's the adulation one shows to an object that has been idolised. Chivalry and gender equality are mutually exclusive with some provisos:

If you are heterosexual and are being 'chivalrous' to court a woman then so be it, that's fine. All issues of gender equality as related to heterosexuality are a no go since non-bisexuality/asexuality is necessarily sexist.

If your 'chivalrous' behaviour is literally no different than you would show a man then that's fine, that's not sexism it's just respectfulness.

If your chivalrous behaviour is aimed solely at women with no regard for sexuality then you're a sexist unless you can find a justification to treat women differently to men that doesn't rely upon their gender. Seriously, if you can't then you are a sexist.

 

[adderseal]

Was chivalry ever even alive?

Most things listed here are just common courtesies that you'd hope would be extended to you, and that hopefully you'd extent to others in turn.
The real 'chivalry' was some half-baked notion that massacring non-Christians was a good, holy thing. Knights in shining armour? Bullshit. They were hardened killers.

 

[BGH122]

thank you! I hate it when I'm trying to be a gentleman and I get a bitchy response from a feminist, who apparently doesn't want to be treated well. ok then, next time I guess I'll let that door slam in your face like a compleat asshole, because apparently those are the kind of people you would rather be around.

But see if you do that, then to them it's "proving" that men are assholes and that they're justified in what they do.

This shit be unwinnable.

The problem is that Feminism isn't one distinct theory. Liberal Feminists argue for equal rights, Marxist feminists argue for 'positive equality' (i.e. unless everything is 100% 50/50 across the genders it's sexist; yes, this theory is a load of horse shit) and so on.

What annoys one feminist pleases another.

 

[buhee]

People hold doors open for me, i've had some people give up their seat for me on trains before and ocassionally i get guys offering me food/money if i casually mention i'm hungry. One of my male friends...all i have to do is shiver and the top layer of his clothing comes off to be given to me instead (or any other girl in the same situation).
I wouldn't say chivalry is completely dead. There are some amazing guys out there who are true gentlemen.

Those feminists that get annoyed about having doors opened for them do my head in though. Its a damn door. Just say thank you and go on your way.

 

[nothinghere]

it's definately dead. all boys care about is sex, which turns women into sluts with low self esteem. I feel like the only gentleman in a sea of animals. and as for feminists who don't want the door held for them, I say they should accept gender difference, rather than trying to claim that men and women are EXACTLY the same. they're not. get over it.

Accepting gender difference? You mean girls are physically incapable of opening doors now? Or are they all so feeble that doors are too heavy for their delicate frame? I mean really, chivalry doesn't acknowledge any real differences.

I wanted to say something like that but couldn't think of the words, Thanks for the help!

 

[BGH122]

The problem is that Feminism isn't one distinct theory. Liberal Feminists argue for equal rights, Marxist feminists argue for 'positive equality' (i.e. unless everything is 100% 50/50 across the genders it's sexist; yes, this theory is a load of horse shit) and so on.

What annoys one feminist pleases another.

I was kinda referring specifically to the sort of people who ***** at you when you're polite to them, i.e. feminazi, as that's who he was talking about. And on the internet, feminist basically means feminazi.

What I meant was that women who ***** at you when you're polite to them probably wouldn't have a problem with having a door slammed in their face. It wouldn't show them that all men are bastards, but that men treat them with equal respect (yes, their definition of respect is tenuous).

It's other women, with other views on feminism that'd have a problem with it. Sure, there are misandric women who're just looking for a reason to hate men, but they're a pathetic irrelevance for whom I feel extreme pity and condemnation in equal measure. It must be a very shallow existence to be so out of tune with one's own emotional driving forces that one seeks a focus for hatred.

Accepting gender difference? You mean girls are physically incapable of opening doors now? Or are they all so feeble that doors are too heavy for their delicate frame? I mean really, chivalry doesn't acknowledge any real differences.

I think he was more referring to gender roles, which I support. I mean, obviously not anything that disadvantages either gender, but I think it's socially healthy to maintain distinction between the two genders as long as there's no harm done to either.

Couldn't disagree more. Gender roles are necessarily harmful as they bear the potential to restrict the greats of a field from ever entering. Had Curie stayed true to her gender role then who knows how much longer it would have been before we would have discovered Polonium.

I understand that you haven't specifically espoused 'get back in the kitchen' as the female gender role, but a gender role necessarily constrains and ergo necessarily bears the potential to prevent a genius from entering a field.

 

[Woodsey]

I don't know, why are nerds so obsessed with chivalry?

Either be polite to everyone, or at least don't be a dick. Why you guys are so fucking obsessed with it is beyond me.

 

[soren7550]

A lady friend and I spent today trying to out-chivalry each other. It's not entirely dead, just dying.

tritons several

That was fun now was it? ;]

 

[Dags90]

I don't know, why are nerds so obsessed with chivalry?

Either be polite to everyone, or at least don't be a dick.

Lots of "Nice Guys" [http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml] in the nerd subculture.

 

[Woodsey]

I don't know, why are nerds so obsessed with chivalry?

Either be polite to everyone, or at least don't be a dick.

Lots of "Nice Guys" [http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml] in the nerd subculture.

Uh... I forgot about them.

The "girls hate nice guys" routine is almost as cringe-worthy as when they talk about how chivalrous they are for the incapable lady-folk.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I will probably hold the dorr for an elderly person more than for a woman, because here she can sue me for descrimination and perhaps even sexual harrasment. Yes, this shit happens here all the time.
That is the reason that Chivalry is dead.

 

[Dags90]

Uh... I forgot about them.

The "girls hate nice guys" routine is almost as cringe-worthy as when they talk about how chivalrous they are for the incapable lady-folk.

I think you can tell a lot more about someone by how they treat someone they treat unattractive strangers compared to people they want to fuck.

My favorite in the "girls hate nice guys" routine are the guys who think that women owe them a relationship (and sex) for their voluntary sacrifice.

 

[rupyTN]

Chivalry isn't dead, just hibernating.

As Saelune eloquently put it, up at the top of the thread, it's about manners and politeness.

Follows through to thread posts too. Why would anyone feel 'chivalrous' toward some clearly bitter illiterate who 'penned':

"I just highlighted all the sexist parts in your post that mysteriously you missed, when you whined about women being treated like men a.k.a like an equal person.
I think it is incredible disturbing to see someone in the year 2011 crawling up womens asses that much, as expressed .... (blah blah)


... a.k.a, in the first sentence? Surely i.e. (if it takes too long to type 'that is')

... 'incredible' disturbing? not incrediblY disturbing!


A copy clerk who can't even check copy before posting.


And the assertion that Everin is 'crawling up womens asses' is not incrediblY disturbing, just boring, and typical of the mentality.


No wonder chivalry is hibernating, (or hiding), it isn't required or deserved much these days.