Is Fighting Dead

[Scars Unseen]

This is Mortal Kombat, it's not Dead Or Alive or Street Fighter. Mortal Kombat has never had combat like which you describe.

I disagre, completely.

Oh wow really? You disagree completely do you? Maybe you could be as gracious as to enlighten a lowly man such as myself with your infinite knowledge and wisdom and tell me why?

Mortal Kombat focuses on dealing heavy damage quickly and being accessible to new players, it's not a particularly deep fighting game and it relies more on the spectacle of the violence and gore than having complex fighting mechanics. I enjoy the Mortal Kombat series, but people shouldn't buy it if they want a serious challenging fighting game.

Eh, kind of. At least in the area that I played in back in the days before online multiplayer, there were two prevailing tactics in MK games. Special attack spam(lending credence to your point) and ridiculously difficult juggle combos from hell. Now I will grant you that this isn't a series that ever had a really complex counter system, and if that's what you're referring to, okay. Point conceded. But the only time that Mortal Kombat was fully about spectacle(that's just what got you in the door) was when you got a couple of button mashers that could only figure out the basic specials. Then again, that's true of pretty much any fighting game.

 

[Wierdguy]

Honor is flawed. For it to work you have to assume that every opponent fights fairly and if you do that you are probably the most naïve person imaginable. Everyone, anywhere at any time WILL use every single advantage to beat an enemy unless they personaly know that enemy in which case that bond might cause them to fight differently and more "honourable".

Seriously, believing in honor is shit when you are the only one doing so. That might suck yes, but be realisitc.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I decided to play Mortal Kombat online and had a very long bout of disappointing battles. Maybe my vision of fighting has been clouded from the years of mixed martial arts that I had taken for years or maybe there is a problem, but people won't admit it. Is actually fighting in a fighting game dead? In Mortal Kombat 9 online, I just found a bunch of people spamming projectiles or choosing a character that could teleport. Or even worse was Noob Saibot folks who started the battle throwing ink people at me over and over again. I thought in a fighting game that you were suppose to fight with skill. Throwing ones combos at each other. Trying to counter each other's combos. This has also happened online in Tekken 6 and other forms of fighting games, where people so afraid of loosing just spam one technique. I'm of the mind set there is honor in beating the weak. Your opponent cannot move because you keep stunning them, your opponent cannot do anything stuck in the wall. Its basically attacking them when their back is turned. When I play this game with my friends, I play to fight against their combos. I want to fight with skill and I work my butt off learning these combos, which seems a bit of a waste when I can't use them because my opponents feel I am only worth attacking me when I cannot do anything.
Have we an online society that discourages loosing? Have we created an online society that encourages only winning? That loosing is a bad thing. You can learn a lot from your wins, but you can learn even more from your mistakes as well.
Isn't the fun of a fighting game, to use your combos, tactical skill?
Is the fear of loosing what creates these people who will do anything to make sure their opponent doesn't move?
I honestely, have been turned off by online game play now. Because no one wants to fight with honor. You have to respect your opponent. Even if its just a game, the opponents you face are people. And you have to treat those people with respect.

Here's the thing, unless the game is broken -which means it's a bad game and you shouldn't be playing it and if you are it doesn't reflect on the whole of gaming - there ALWAYS is a way to counter whatever it is that your foe repeatedly spams.



Mortal Kombat is NOT a serious fighting game, it's a casual gimmicky fighter for non-fans who are drunk and in need of a party game. You should not be expecting high level competition to be found in it. All it does is childish gore and over the top violence, it's not some golden martial arts tournament.



Try playing some Blazblue, it'll reinvigorate your spirits. Everyone online does combos in that game and all moves are instantly vulnerable if spammed with no thought.

 

[Random berk]

It seems to me that they are simply using an efficient tactic to complete the one objective in the game, which is to kill you. You might not like their way of doing that, but its a legitimate tactic and it works. Thats from someone who tends to avoid using ranged weapons except to try and throw an enemy off balance before closing in, or when seriously injured as a last resort.

If you think thats dishonourable, think of this: I was playing Red Dead Redemption online once, which about seven people all in one part of Mexico. There was one big gunfight going on, so I joined in, and shot the head off some level 30 guy. (I was level four at the time.) Understandably enough, he came back and killed me. I struggled with him for a while, but with better weapons and more practice, he killed me fourteen times in a row. I decided to give up and go find someting else to do. But every time I tried to leave, he shot me in the back. I would usually not even get to my donkey, and when I did I would ride flat out, only for him to chase me and shoot me in the back. I tried hiding, I tried everything to avoid him, but he kept killing me. Once, just as I got to my donkey, someone else killed him, meaning I managed to ride a good distance away, along the train tracks. As soon as he respawned, he completely ignored the guy who shot him, as well as the gunfight that was still going on, chased me all the way to America, and shot me in the back. After he harassed me for 20 minutes and killed me around 40 times, I left the server. At which point he gave my gamercard a bad review lowering my reputation from 5 stars to 3.5 stars. Now that is dishonourable.

 

[sheah1]

Haven't played Mortal Kombat's online just yet (damn you hackers!) but I think the douchiness in this game might be conditional, characters like Goro, Kintaro and the king of all awful Shoa Kahn can only be defeated with spamming projectiles and teleports, so maybe in this it's not all due to douches.

 

[S3Cs4uN 8]

I think he's one of those Gentlemen/House rules players. As I said in my previous post, he'd be laughed out of an arcade.

As said, I may be slightly bias to my years of mixed martial arts that I took.

However, at the same time whether internet or not, that is no excuse to be rude or disrespectful. Anonymity of the internet doesn't excuse you from etiquette.

yes it does

 

[Gudrests]

So... where's the disrespect? If they're keeping you at a distance, it sounds like they're doing well enough and you're not happy about it.

Argue this with most any somewhat serious people and they'll tell you it's called zoning. Unless the character can negate projectiles and rush at you (Jade - UMK3), they're doing something right. Because not only are they chipping your health, they're running down the clock which will cause you to do something risky and if they're on top of it, you'll get punished. It's a legitimate tactic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's disrespectful/dishonorable. Get off your high horse and either find people who want to share the stick up your ass or don't play.

As said a thousand times before. This isn't fun. They are doing this so that way they can win. There is no stragety in doing the same thing over and over again. There is no skill either. And to me quite frankly, the Reptile acid trick is disrespectful because its like htting an enemy behind their back. There is no honor in beating the weak. If someone cannot fight back, they are weak period.

As said a thousand times before, this isn't how I play with my friends at home. We actually fight each other. They pound out there Jade combos and I pound out my combos. Hearts racing, anticipation, as each other's health chunks down low. Good timining, finishing X ray move.

Throwing fireballs or acid balls is not fighting. It isn't the way a fighting game should be played either. Its a cheap, disrespectful tactic.

That is fighting, that is a tactic. YES EVEN IN REAL LIFE, look at the military...look at civilization. the rules has become. "I am safe if he is far away and I can keep him there" also "all is fair in love and war". Learn to have fun winning against any opponent o enjoy the taste of defeat is all I can tell you if you complain that much about things being cheap. Or hell Learn to dodge it. All of thoes movies If someone does them that much can be dodged

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I play Blaz Blue and use Hakumen, that makes me an anomaly because there were/are a lot of tier whores in that game. If I wasn't running into the countless Ragna's, the person would usually wait for me to choose and then pick Lambda-11... Hakumen's counter. People will do whatever makes them feel safest against an opponent; whether it be character balances, powerful moves with low risk or whatever.

In what way does Lambda counter Hakumen? You can cut half of her attacks and she has to take huge risks to get in while you're just sitting back mashing on your easy fast and strong sword attacks from the safety of being half a screen away.


Hakumen isn't the best in the game but he's high tier anyways, he's better than Ragna at least lol.

 

[FoolKiller]

Fight with honor? What are you talking about? This is Mortal Kombat.
People have always used cheap moves to win.

...including the computer opponents. The whole point of Mortal Kombat is a simple, brutally bloody, entry-level fighter. The skill required to master the game isn't all that high.

If you want a real challenge, Virtua Fighter 4 was the game to play (a long time ago). No fireballs, no super jumps, just good old-fashioned kung-fu.

 

[bjj hero]

I think he's one of those Gentlemen/House rules players. As I said in my previous post, he'd be laughed out of an arcade.

As said, I may be slightly bias to my years of mixed martial arts that I took.

I've not played the new mortal kombat but I do like fighting games. People will always want to win, a well balanced game will allow you multiple ways to win with multiple charecters. If they are spamming the same move you counter it. Your friends list is there to find people you like playing who match up well with you, if you are playing randoms then you can expect it.

I happen to do martial arts too but I don't see how it gives you a different perspective. If you are in a fight or competition and your opponent keeps walking onto your jab, will you stop throwing it because its repetative? If he keeps giving away an easy single leg, will you stop going for it? I doubt it.

It's not just MK, did you play the first UFC game? So many people would take a wrestler, take the fight to open guard as soon as possible and sit there throwing the odd punch now and again for 3 rounds or until KO. There are lots of spammers in Street fighter, Sagat is built on spamming. You have to accept it happens, deal with it or move on.

 

[kelevra]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombatPragmatist?from=Main.TheCombatPragmatist

Seriously man, online gameplay is a total crapshoot of people whom fight *to win.* Honour has nothing to do with it bro. Find some friends who are keen on a proper contest of skill, then you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[bjj hero]

As for fighting "games", M.U.G.E.N. is forever alive and willing to be caught by anyone wanting to play an amalgam fighting game.

Excellent point. MUGEN is the best fighting game engine I've seen.

Spoiler: Has anyone played King of Fighters?

Ah. Good time...

I miss KOF. So much more depth than street fighter and in solo play it had some of the painfully unfair boss fights. I've been upset more than once by Omega Rugal. I can imagine the development meeting at SNK.

"Do you know who I think hasn't got enough moves?"

"Who?"

"Rugal, lets make his special double up for this game, that should fix game balance."

Old man Sakazaki (is that spelt right?) has always been my favourite, no fireballs or fancy moves, just big hits. Less so as Mr Karate though.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombatPragmatist?from=Main.TheCombatPragmatist

Seriously man, online gameplay is a total crapshoot of people whom fight *to win.* Honour has nothing to do with it bro. Find some friends who are keen on a proper contest of skill, then you'll find what you're looking for.

Here's the thing, he's only complaining about things that either are wrong with the game and not the people playing or about things his actual skill isn't allowing him to surpass but that are EASILY beaten, making him just as unskilled as his "dishonest" foes, only less flexible.

 

[mParadox]

I miss KOF. So much more depth than street fighter and in solo play it had some of the painfully unfair boss fights. I've been upset more than once by Omega Rugal. I can imagine the development meeting at SNK.

"Do you know who I think hasn't got enough moves?"

"Who?"

"Rugal, lets make his special double up for this game, that should fix game balance."

Old man Sakazaki (is that spelt right?) has always been my favourite, no fireballs or fancy moves, just big hits. Less so as Mr Karate though.

I believe it's called the SNK Boss Syndrome. Every boss is over powered. Zero... *shudders* DAmn he was hard to beat... And Igniz! DX

I prefer K'. Man that guy's the definition of anti-hero. =p

 

[katsabas]

The individual that made this thread has to understand that online fighting and Irish Duel-type honor are two things that go hand to hand once in a blue moon. People play to win. Simple as that. You will not find honor while playing online alone. Least of all in a fighting game.

That is not to say that there aren't people out there who aren't genuinely good without spamming moves over and over. I got my ass handed to me by a SFIV Ken that didn't, not even once, use the flaming shoryuken. And then, a guy as Akuma transformed into an Air-Hadoken Gunship and cheaped my ass to win.

For every legitimate player, there are 100 petty ones.

That is not to say that you made a bad choice with buying MK. People seem to be under the impression that if a fighter isn't made in Japan, is not deep, not serious and is not tournament material. Which is complete and utter BS. Why?

-I want to beat someone mercilessly to death. Inner peace through outer violence. Am I gonna try Street Fighter to remedy that? Fuck, no.

-Some of the combos I saw in MK are extremely demanding when it comes to timing. And all that while I am an intermediate Akuma player and CAN link attacks.

What you did do wrong is that you didn't know what you were getting yourself into. Special attacks and teleports have been around since the very first MK.

Mortal Kombat is NOT a serious fighting game, it's a casual gimmicky fighter for non-fans who are drunk and in need of a party game.

Either that or it is for people who actually like to get their money's worth, (i.e. not 60 bucks for a game that is nothing but bare bones with a good fighting system-a good fighting system is what should be asked for at MINIMUM since the game costs this much), not have to continuously give money for extra versions and have DLC only represented by skins for the fighters. Nice.

You should not be expecting high level competition to be found in it. All it does is childish gore and over the top violence, it's not some golden martial arts tournament.

High level competition can exist in every well known game. Burnout Paradise had online tournaments. Was it a fighter? No. Was it Japanese? Nope. And while we are on it, NO fighting game tournament is or will ever be a 'golden martial arts tournament', for the simple reason that the martial arts depicted aren't even close to the real thing. I attend Shotokan classes and they look nothing like SF.

Also, childish? There is a difference between childish and funny. Try exposing an 8 year old to Kano's or Noob's fatality. How's that for scarring?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Either that or it is for people who actually like to get their money's worth, (i.e. not 60 bucks for a game that is nothing but bare bones with a good fighting system-a good fighting system is what should be asked for at MINIMUM since the game costs this much), not have to continuously give money for extra versions and have DLC only represented by skins for the fighters. Nice.

How much time do you think you'll be spending on it though?

Most serious fighter players spend hundreds if not thousands of hours at their respective games so if we judge a $60 game with 20 or less hours of gameplay as one's "money's worth" they are getting many many many times more worth out of their money than you or any other genre-player.

High level competition can exist in every well known game. Burnout Paradise had online tournaments. Was it a fighter? No. Was it Japanese? Nope. And while we are on it, NO fighting game tournament is or will ever be a 'golden martial arts tournament', for the simple reason that the martial arts depicted aren't even close to the real thing. I attend Shotokan classes and they look nothing like SF.

Also, childish? There is a difference between childish and funny. Try exposing an 8 year old to Kano's or Noob's fatality. How's that for scarring?

Online has lag and thus is imperfect, the mere fact that you think online tournaments are comparable to offline live matches just shows the difference between other genres and fighters. In fighters where single frames matter (a frame is a sixtieth of a second) you can't have any respectable tournament online.



As for scarring, dunno about that, I played Silent Hill when I was 10 and I was fine with it...maybe if your kid is a specific candy ass bran of child . It's a childish depiction of violence and gore, together with all the squishy sounds and blood you'd find at a country fare horror house.

 

[Laser Priest]

I think the real lesson here is: Every game sucks when you play against douchebags online.

 

[bjj hero]

I believe it's called the SNK Boss Syndrome. Every boss is over powered. Zero... *shudders* DAmn he was hard to beat... And Igniz! DX

I prefer K'. Man that guy's the definition of anti-hero. =p

Maxima is a favourite of mine on that team. Anyone who counts a right straight as a special move is alright by me. I like command throws so it was always going to happen.

 

[rabidkanid]

I've never liked fighting games because you spend more time learning how to play than actually playing and the usually very long wall of moves with 5-20 button combinations needed to learn how to play each and every character.

Also take into account the personality of the people I've met who like fighting games. I'm not saying that this is everyone, just the people that I ran into. They were usually very childish and annoying. You're obviously new to the genre, the game looks fun so you want to give it a try even though you don't know jack about what your doing and the first thing they do is beat you into the corner, not letting you move, apparently beating you down just to fill their ego. Yes, congratulations, you beat someone who's never played the game before.

Even if I liked fighting games, I probably eventually wouldn't like fighting other people if I ran into enough people who acted like this. So from my pov this genre has never had any 'honor'. People just like to pretend it does.