Is Freedom Of Speech All It's Cracked Up To Be?

[maddawg IAJI]

No, the hundreds of school kids committing suicide are being BULLIED, and several states, such as Massachusetts have already put anti-bullying laws in place. Basically, bullies are not protected by the first amendment rights.

There is a difference between spouting negative thoughts and ideas about certain groups and harassing those groups of people.

 

[Darkmantle]

The is a difference between freedom of speech and harassment.

Let me give an example.

Black people make me uncomfortable and I don't think they should have the same rights as me - Freedom of speech

IF YOU'RE A N***** YOU SUCK AND I HOPE YOU DIE YOU STUPID N***** - harassment


I don't know why this example popped into my head first, but it seems to fit the theme of bullying.

It's simple really, you can use your rights all you want, as long as they don't infringe on another's rights. feeling safe is a right btw

 

[Rebellious_Gate]

No freedom of speech is not all America cracks it up to be. I'd say it works well here in Britain except for the part where muslims are treated as an exception since nobody wants to be "Racist".

well thats why we don't have full freedom of speech, it stops with "hate speech" or some such silly term.

But it works.

Oh and i agree, its one of the many silly things americans harp on about and i honestly think the "american dream" is harmful as it prizes the one above the many. Which is selfish as hell.

If people carry it too far then it becomes hate speech, for example the WBC would not be allowed to protest over here as there message would be considered hate speech which is what it is.
My only complaint is that Muslims are still allowed to practice hate speech but it's a complicated matter that I hope gets resolved at some point, since I like the way it works here. Freedom of speech as long as it doesn't become hate speech.

WBC have actually been banned from coming here to protest before. I punch that into my calculator it comes out with a happy face ^^

And i agree theres a bit of unevenness when it comes to muslims, but its a touchy issue because people don't want to be accused as part of islamaphobia (thank you for that daily mail).

Add on to that, people really, really, really, really, really, really, really don't want to be associated with these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL1jDcAHkc8

Nice clip. Sums up the EDL/BNP demographic perfectly.
Fuck the EDL, seriously.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

So take away the freedom of speech or teach our kids that "sticks and stones" stuff... Tough choice

 

[rje5]

It isn't truly freedom of speech as people like to think. You can't say something to induce a fight and then try and blame the other guy for throwing the first punch. You can't knowingly lie about someone. You can't scream "fire" when there isn't one. All of these are criminal offenses to my knowledge.

My big thing is just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean you should do it. There is something called common courtesy. I recently reprimanded a bunch of teenagers for screaming "fuck" in our cul de sac where there were young kids (5 years old) who could hear them. I equate this to people not blowing smoke in your face when they're talking to you. Most people will look away or stand in a direction so the wind doesn't blow it towards you.

You want to say what you want in good nature with your friends, fine. Every mature person knows the line they shouldn't cross when saying certain things, and I have no pity on them if they say it to the wrong person and get beaten up for it.

 

[ZorroFonzarelli]

It's all that it's cracked up to be and so much more. We take our history for granted. For Americans, between our current president and our previous president, there is an exceptionally small chance many out there didn't have a strong disagreement with either, which in days before the First Amendment could often get people thrown into prison a la France's Bastille, etc.

Free Speech applies for everything, including your right to ask such questions. It exists to ensure that freedom is allowed to bloom in the marketplace of ideas and public discourse. It exists to facilitate the people speaking for themselves on issues that they care deeply about.

With freedom comes responsibility, of course, but to those who are offended by the words of others, remember "Sticks and Stones"? Freedom of speech has never pulled a trigger, nor has it lynched anyone. Murderers and racists have, but Speech is speech - not action.

Cherish your Freedom of Speech. If you are ever considering parting with it, all I ask is that you study why we have it in the first place beforehand...

 

[Micromyni]

Freedom of speech is a very nuanced thing, honestly i tend to having it be as free as possible. To me, suffering the occasional unpleasant comment or unsavory view is far more palatable then trusting in a government official to determine what can be said and what shouldn't be.

What this fine gentlemen said. Couldn't put it any better myself.

 

[rje5]

With freedom comes responsibility, of course, but to those who are offended by the words of others, remember "Sticks and Stones"? Freedom of speech has never pulled a trigger, nor has it lynched anyone. Murderers and racists have, but Speech is speech - not action.

So if someone says your girlfriend banged a bunch of guys she didn't, that's not hurting someone? It may not be true, but she'll get looked at and treated differently because of it if anyone believes it. There's a reason lying in court is illegal, because words have consequences. Someone screams "fire!", people freak out and run, a young kid gets hurt. That doesn't have consequences?

These are extreme cases but it proves words can hurt, even if they aren't intended to. Keep in mind, some people are extreme and will act on words, regardless if they were meant to be acted on or not. I can't tell someone that a guy is a terrorist. Because if he believes me and hurts him, it's because of something I said.

 

[pigsnoutman]

No way any restrictions to free speech would help suicidal teenagers, unless they really enjoyed prolonged legal battles.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

As long as it doesn't mean freedom to harass and slander, which it never does. Incitement to violence is a tough issue for me, but most people trying to incite violence can be connected to another crime, such as attempted murder or assault.

 

[Turing '88]

Wow, a lot of internet tough guy "sticks and stones" talk in here. Yeah, words only have what power you give them, so profound, shame we all know that already. I also know for a fact if your boss or colleges at work started consistently and specifically targeting you with hate speech, you would not like it. A lot of you would stand up for yourselves, but that's not always a possibility for the bullied for a myriad of reasons.

If you were in a situation where targeted and prolonged abuse could not be avoided, it would get to you eventually. Even if the words don't hurt, the hatred would, the loneliness would, the intimidation would.

I don't believe in the over sensitivity to words, the kind I feel MovieBob pushes. I think context is everything, words can change meaning over time...blah blah blah. I use the words fag, retard, raped, killed...etc in general usage, Directed bullying is something different though.

"Sometimes you have to suffer a little bit in your youth to motivate yourself to succeed in later life. Do you think if Bill Gates got laid in high school, do you think there'd be a Microsoft?
Of course not.

I also think this is retarded. Even if Bill Gates was motivated by bullying (Could be, I don't know much about his childhood), he would still have been a fantastically successful man, because he's intelligent and driven. As just one person, he's also statistically insignificant.

Plenty of incredibly rich people were popular at school, and had an easy time. Plenty of people totally fail at life, despite being bullied at school. In fact from my school, with the exception of the super nerds, there seemed a fairly strong correlation between how popular a kid was, and how well he's doing now. I'd argue that the normal (non-weird) and charismatic kids, i.e. the ones likely to be popular, generally do better in life.

 

[Kriptonite]

I say freedom of speech ends when it hurts someone else.

 

[Verzin]

Wow, a lot of internet tough guy "sticks and stones" talk in here. Yeah, words only have what power you give them, so profound, shame we all know that already. I also know for a fact if your boss or colleges at work started consistently and specifically targeting you with hate speech, you would not like it. A lot of you would stand up for yourselves, but that's not always a possibility for the bullied for a myriad of reasons.

If you were in a situation where targeted and prolonged abuse could not be avoided, it would get to you eventually. Even if the words don't hurt, the hatred would, the loneliness would, the intimidation would.

I don't believe in the over sensitivity to words, the kind I feel MovieBob pushes. I think context is everything, words can change meaning over time...blah blah blah. I use the words fag, retard, raped, killed...etc in general usage, Directed bullying is something different though.

"Sometimes you have to suffer a little bit in your youth to motivate yourself to succeed in later life. Do you think if Bill Gates got laid in high school, do you think there'd be a Microsoft?
Of course not.

I also think this is retarded. Even if Bill Gates was motivated by bullying (Could be, I don't know much about his childhood), he would still have been a fantastically successful man, because he's intelligent and driven. As just one person, he's also statistically insignificant.

Plenty of incredibly rich people were popular at school, and had an easy time. Plenty of people totally fail at life, despite being bullied at school. In fact from my school, with the exception of the super nerds, there seemed a fairly strong correlation between how popular a kid was, and how well he's doing now. I'd argue that the normal (non-weird) and charismatic kids, i.e. the ones likely to be popular, generally do better in life.

It's not meant to be true, it's meant to point out that pain encourages growth.

 

[Magnicon]

If society spent half as much time teaching people to not care what random people say, because they are just words, then it does whining about every little thing, the world would be a better place.

 

[Vivi22]

so does anyone else believe that there are certain things that LEGALLY, we should and shouldn't be allowed to say? Discuss-

No, absolutely not. Freedom of speech is such a fundamentally necessary right to have a society free from tyranny that the government should never be trusted to determine what is and isn't acceptable speech. Why anyone would want them to anyway when they're so damn inept at governing pretty much anything else is beyond me.

Yes, words can absolutely hurt people. But government shouldn't be the ones determining when that's acceptable and when it isn't because frankly, a lot of people are simply too damn sensitive. I'd much rather see a world where individuals stand up against bullying, racism, or whatever other kind of hate filled and hurtful speech when they see it so government doesn't have to anyway.

 

[alandavidson]

Freedom of speech isn't really what people make it out to be. It was originally created (in the US) as method for private citizens to criticize the government without fear of repercussion. As we grow as a society and become multi-racial and multi-cultural, with many different views and opinions, we've had to adjust our laws slightly to keep people safe from slander and harm. There are fine lines between what you can and can't say.

For example, saying "All homosexuals have AIDS" is protected under freedom of speech, despite being completely erroneous.

Saying, "All homosexuals have AIDS and should be put to death, grab your guns and get them" is against the law because it incites violence against a group of people.

Freedom of speech within certain parameters is a great thing. And as the world evolves, our laws will have to evolve with it. As long as we keep the idea that we can criticize the government, freedom of speech will be a good thing.

 

[Turing '88]

It's not meant to be true, it's meant to point out that pain encourages growth.

..... I don't even know how to reply to that, how do you know pain encourages growth? My point was plenty of people do well without the pain part, or do badly in spite of pain. Mayhap people do what they do, and the pain doesn't really have an influence? I can't imagine I'd have done better in life if I'd been bullied more.