is it odd my father owns a translated version of Mein Kampf

[Sentox6]

Compairing race and religion in that way is flawed

Almost as flawed as sweeping generalisations about people based entirely on a label, wouldn't you agree?

And what do I not understand that I am a terrible person for liking men or wanting to be or dress as a female, and that its all my fault even though God supposedly made me. And what about Christianity's merits? Numerous wars because of different thinking (Crusades) Constant bigotry, tons of stupid and frivilous laws to force the world to be how they think an outdated book wants. Dont tell me I am ignorant when you clearly are a thrall of your faith.

It seems quite clear that you're going to see what you want to see, regardless of what I might say.

Your examples don't have nearly as much to do with Christianity as you're trying to project, though. Religion has been used as a tool many times in history to commit atrocities, to be sure. People twisting and misusing a religion does not make that religion inherently evil, though. The only connection is the one you're vesting in it. Furthermore, there have been numerous wars not fought under religious pretences: by your logic, that makes atheism and agnosticism evil as well.

And what do I not understand that I am a terrible person for liking men or wanting to be or dress as a female, and that its all my fault even though God supposedly made me.

If you think Christianity sees you as a "terrible person" for these reasons, you have no understanding of it whatsoever.

 

[Saelune]

Compairing race and religion in that way is flawed

Almost as flawed as sweeping generalisations about people based entirely on a label, wouldn't you agree?

And what do I not understand that I am a terrible person for liking men or wanting to be or dress as a female, and that its all my fault even though God supposedly made me. And what about Christianity's merits? Numerous wars because of different thinking (Crusades) Constant bigotry, tons of stupid and frivilous laws to force the world to be how they think an outdated book wants. Dont tell me I am ignorant when you clearly are a thrall of your faith.

It seems quite clear that you're going to see what you want to see, regardless of what I might say.

Your examples don't have nearly as much to do with Christianity as you're trying to project, though. Religion has been used as a tool many times in history to commit atrocities, to be sure. People twisting and misusing a religion does not make that religion inherently evil, though. The only connection is the one you're vesting in it. Furthermore, there have been numerous wars not fought under religious pretences: by your logic, that makes atheism and agnosticism evil as well.

And what do I not understand that I am a terrible person for liking men or wanting to be or dress as a female, and that its all my fault even though God supposedly made me.

If you think Christianity sees you as a "terrible person" for these reasons, you have no understanding of it whatsoever.

Any non religious war is usually about a specific bad thing. Power, greed, non religious based hate. I am not a fan of those either. Ive yet to see an agnostic war though.

Also It seems quite clear that you're going to see what you want to see, regardless of what I might say.

Sound copy and pasted?

Anyways. Maybe a few people twisting religion does not make it evil, but Christianity is too far twisted to be saved. That Jesus fellow had a sound head on his shoulders. If it was Christianity as defined by him, I might even be a christian, But nope. More follow the Bible over Jesus (and incorrectly ususally). I wont disagree that Christianity has been twisted. I do disagree that Christianity is capable of "salvation" though.

 

[Sentox6]

Any non religious war is usually about a specific bad thing. Power, greed, non religious based hate. I am not a fan of those either.

Good, so we're agreed that the label of Christianity doesn't have any special monopoly on motivating wars, then?

Also It seems quite clear that you're going to see what you want to see, regardless of what I might say.

I see someone who seems determined to draw sweeping conclusions and generalisations at all costs, that's all.

Anyways. Maybe a few people twisting religion does not make it evil, but Christianity is too far twisted to be saved. That Jesus fellow had a sound head on his shoulders. If it was Christianity as defined by him, I might even be a christian, But nope. More follow the Bible over Jesus (and incorrectly ususally). I wont disagree that Christianity has been twisted. I do disagree that Christianity is capable of "salvation" though.

If you don't agree that Christianity is capable of salvation, then you reject its single most fundamental tenet, so let's dispose of the disingenuous "I might even be a christian".

I assume you must equally reject any existence of Islam based upon the atrocities that have been committed in its name.

At any rate, your logic seems to boil down to "people have misused a label, so lets reject the belief system the label originally referred to". Surely I don't have to point out the inherent irrationality of this.

 

[Agayek]

It's a book that created a lot of history. It's nothing odd. Now, if he's actually managed to read that abomination of literature, THAT would be odd.

Honestly, has anyone tried reading it? That man needed to go back to grammar school.

I haven't tried reading it in the original German (as I can't understand Deutsch), but the translations I've looked at were really bad. I always assumed it was mostly the fault of the translators, but it wouldn't terribly surprise me to find out otherwise.

 

[Saelune]

Any non religious war is usually about a specific bad thing. Power, greed, non religious based hate. I am not a fan of those either.

Good, so we're agreed that the label of Christianity doesn't have any special monopoly on motivating wars, then?

Also It seems quite clear that you're going to see what you want to see, regardless of what I might say.

I see someone who seems determined to draw sweeping conclusions and generalisations at all costs, that's all.

Anyways. Maybe a few people twisting religion does not make it evil, but Christianity is too far twisted to be saved. That Jesus fellow had a sound head on his shoulders. If it was Christianity as defined by him, I might even be a christian, But nope. More follow the Bible over Jesus (and incorrectly ususally). I wont disagree that Christianity has been twisted. I do disagree that Christianity is capable of "salvation" though.

If you don't agree that Christianity is capable of salvation, then you reject its single most fundamental tenet, so let's dispose of the disingenuous "I might even be a christian".

I assume you must equally reject any existence of Islam based upon the atrocities that have been committed in its name.

At any rate, your logic seems to boil down to "people have misused a label, so lets reject the belief system the label originally referred to". Surely I don't have to point out the inherent irrationality of this.

Oh, I wish all religion was gone. From Islam, to Judiasm, to whatever. But since I live in America, it is Christianity I tend to face more. Were I living in an Islamic country instead, I would be arguing the faults of Islam more. And I dont care if there are a few good people calling themselves Christian. The whole foundation hurts the country. If you follow what it says to be Christian, it is not far fetched for me to generalize. And its hard to swallow a Christian calling me irrational. Anytime I argue the flaw of God, all of a sudden rational thinking is thrown out the window.
Do I have to do that with you? Point out the hypocracy of a God that is all powerful and all knowing that still somehow doesnt know and cant fix the bad things in the world?

 

[Betancore]

I own the Bible and the Koran and I've got a copy of Mein Kampf coming my way in the mail. None of those things really represent my beliefs at all, but it doesn't hurt to read everything you can, in order to expand your understanding of those things even if you don't agree with them.

 

[Sanglyon]

More self-justification.
"Christians that do good things are real christians, christians that do bad things are not real christians".

But what else to expect from the religion that promotes vicarious redemption instead of taking responsabilty?

SNIP

This all may be, but there's nothing useful in what you're saying.
If those following Hitler's orders did so without questioning the morality of it from a Christian viewpoint, then they weren't Christians. Hitler's acts contradict the commands of the Bible (as did the Inquisition, to address your example). There's nothing more to it. Whether or not they believed they were doing the work of God is irrelevant. It's nothing more than a label and a selective set of beliefs that they chose to adopt, and has no bearing on Christianity in its entirety.

Have you actually read the Bible?

Anyway, a selective set of belief is what every christian goes by. Be it workshipping idols and making images (such as a crucifix or paintings), getting tattoos, praying in public instead of alone in privacy, there are a lot of thing forbidden by the Bible that most christians do, either by convenience or ignorance. Or thing they don't do, because who in his right mind would kill children that disobey their parents.

I can only assume you're one of those people desperate to blame religion for atrocities that have been committed in the past, in order to ignore the true problem: people. I can understand that. Religion is a much easier target to conceptualise and attack than any individual.

There nothing desperate in blaming religion for what it is: a tool for power-hungry people to control and order others, by teaching them it's ok to blindigly follow orders, and that asking questions and doubting is a though crime.

You realise that, just as I didn't live through the holocaust, neither did you? Most of those first-hand accounts have been reproduced quite accurately in numerous history textbooks, and I'm not even going to dignify your condescending remark about "only movies and tv shows".

If you reduce WWII to "the Holocaust", then that just show you have only a little knowledge of it. That may be what is taught in history books, because it's the most horrible part of it and shouldn't be forgotten. But I doubt your history books have accounts of every massacre that took place in every country invaded.

 

[badgersprite]

No. I read Mein Kampf translated because I was interested in WWII and I wanted to know about the things Hitler actually believed and said and what it was about him and his writing that brainwashed an entire country of reasonable, educated people into following his crazy ass philosophy.

It's actually the single most boring book I've ever read. It's not even interesting in a "macabre, sick mind of a serial killer" kind of way. Seriously. It put me to sleep faster than The Book of Numbers.

 

[Sentox6]

Oh, I wish all religion was gone. From Islam, to Judiasm, to whatever. But since I live in America, it is Christianity I tend to face more. Were I living in an Islamic country instead, I would be arguing the faults of Islam more. And I dont care if there are a few good people calling themselves Christian. The whole foundation hurts the country. If you follow what it says to be Christian, it is not far fetched for me to generalize. And its hard to swallow a Christian calling me irrational. Anytime I argue the flaw of God, all of a sudden rational thinking is thrown out the window.

All you've presented me with so far is some sweeping generalisations and leading assertions in an effort to frame things how you want to see them...

Do I have to do that with you? Point out the hypocracy of a God that is all powerful and all knowing that still somehow doesnt know and cant fix the bad things in the world?

Case in point.

More self-justification.
"Christians that do good things are real christians, christians that do bad things are not real christians".

That's a misinterpretation of what I said, and the reality is certainly more complex than that. But it is hardly fair to call those willfully and consistently acting against Christian principles a reflection on the theology. If I call myself a Buddhist and then walk into a populated area and kill as many people as I can with my shotgun before the police stop me, does that mean Buddhism promotes murder?

But what else to expect from the religion that promotes vicarious redemption instead of taking responsabilty?

It's not "instead of". You're right in that Christianity is unique in not ultimately letting man save himself through his own works (compared to any man-made religion that offers a variety of salvation), but it does not excuse one from moral obligation.

Have you actually read the Bible?

Quite a bit more than you have, I'd gamble.

Anyway, a selective set of belief is what every christian goes by. Be it workshipping idols and making images (such as a crucifix or paintings), getting tattoos, praying in public instead of alone in privacy, there are a lot of thing forbidden by the Bible that most christians do, either by convenience or ignorance.

As soon as you want to argue about the belief system itself instead of trying to make the discussion about the behaviour of individuals self-identifying as Christians, let me know.

Also, unless you've personally audited every person in the world identifying as a Christian, you can't use really that first sentence. I suspect that in reality your sample is far, far smaller than that, and suffers from a selective bias as well.

Or thing they don't do, because who in his right mind would kill children that disobey their parents.

For someone making leading implications about my knowledge of the Bible, you seem to have little understanding of the relationship between the Old and New Testament.

There nothing desperate in blaming religion for what it is: a tool for power-hungry people to control and order others, by teaching them it's ok to blindigly follow orders, and that asking questions and doubting is a though crime.

That's one way in which religion has been used. Spirituality, personal beliefs, and religion are not synonymous concepts, however.

If you reduce WWII to "the Holocaust", then that just show you have only a little knowledge of it. That may be what is taught in history books, because it's the most horrible part of it and shouldn't be forgotten. But I doubt your history books have accounts of every massacre that took place in every country invaded.

And I doubt you know of every massacre that took place in every country invaded either, so what's your point?

 

[DonMartin]

I just thought I'd post this, seeing as how it's somewhat related to the topic


OP: No, I'd like to read Mein Kampf too, just to try to understand Mr. Hillter. (repeat what everyone else already have said)

 

[Yureina]

Maybe he owns it the same reason I would ever own a Bible. Understanding an enemy.

Pretty much. Or for simple historical curiosity. I'd only be worried if someone said that the book made good points, or that it offered opinions that other people should adapt as their own.

 

[pejhmon]

Nope. If you're interested in that era of history it can help you understand why he did what he did. I read Marx's "Communist Manifesto" to get a broader understanding of their ideals (and I'm still as right wing as ever), that and it helped my history course (we were studying revolutionary Russia)