Is Nintendo recycling their ideas too much?

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briunj04

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I feel that recently Nintendo's entire business model has been reusing their old IPs and preying on their fans nostalgia.

If you think back to 2006, the Wii launched with Wii Sports, setting the tone of innovation for the console. But the Wii U is launching with Nintendoland, a collection of mini-games based on games created in the 80s. Is this setting the tone of uninspired remakes?

The big N has been releasing a lot of remakes or rehashes of old games lately and I feel they're stagnating rather quickly. In a period of gaming where everything is moving forward rapidly, I'm afraid they'll be left in the dust (Or maybe they already have been). What do you think?
 

BeeGeenie

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Hmm... I dunno... Popular things are popular for a reason.

Much as I hate McDonalds, asking if Nintendo recycles their ideas too much is like asking if Mc'Ds makes too many Big Macs.

Mc'Ds and Nintendo are both enormously successful, so they're not gonna fix it until it's officially broken.

Give it time. Nintendo still occasionally releases a Mc'rib every once in a while.
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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Considering that Mario, Metroid, and Zelda have been milked successfully for ~ 25 years now and people want EVEN MORE of them I'd say that they aren't being recycled enough.

About the only new things they have come up with in those 25 years is Starfox and Pikmin and Kirby if you count him. And then they have Kart Racing and Fighting with this cast of characters if you consider that to be innovation.

True, they have several Wii games where your Mii is the star, and they have done well I guess. Though I barely touched the one that came with my Wii and haven't played any others. I don't consider minigames with crap (even for the Wii) graphics and so shallow its one deminsional gameplay to be encouraging. I regret even having a Wii tbh. There are about 4 games I have for it I even like, and I only have maybe 7 games. And 3 or 4 VC games.

Hopefully the Wii U will transition away from motion controls. The gamepad doesn't look too conducive to having to hold it steady and point it at parts of the screen or wave it around.

I currently have no desire for a 3DS or a Wii U, but I think its kinda sad that the only thing I would consider buying them for is a new Zelda or Metroid game. I literally cannot even entertain the idea of Nintendo making anything new that I would want at this point.

Though given the last few Zelda games and Other M, I have all but lost confidence that they still know how to milk the franchisees that have been the ONLY thing keeping them solvent for about 25 years now.

If it weren't for Shigeru Miyamoto, Nintendo would have gone out of business decades ago. the moment he is even rumored to retire their stock will hit rock bottom.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Well, yeah... that's what Nintendo does.

However, it's not their fault that people buy their stuff and scream for more. I'm not going to get angry at them for selling people what they evidently want.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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uh....NO. They don't really recycle anything and they actually only put out entries in their key franchises sparingly. You'll be lucky to see more than one 3D Mario per system, same with Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros, etc. Milking is only an appropriate term if you're doing it witha franchise on a yearly basis and Nintendo doesn't do that (well, Mario is an exception, but he's become a brand more than a franchise) Furthermore their franchises always try to do something new. It's a bit misguided to say that Nintendo milks or recycles ideas. They're actually probably the most original and talented developer in history.
 

Batou667

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Nintendo are the worst culprits in living memory for self-plagiarism.

Ridiculously, it doesn't seem to have hurt them. Perhaps that's what their fanbase wanted all along, or perhaps the static selection of IP on offer has filtered out the parts of the fanbase that want different experiences. Nintendo also seem to have established themselves as the brand of choice for casuals and kids - demographics who just don't understand, or even care, that the game they're playing is essentially a high-definition port of an N64 game.
 

Keoul

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Batou667 said:
Nintendo are the worst culprits in living memory for self-plagiarism.

Ridiculously, it doesn't seem to have hurt them. Perhaps that's what their fanbase wanted all along, or perhaps the static selection of IP on offer has filtered out the parts of the fanbase that want different experiences. Nintendo also seem to have established themselves as the brand of choice for casuals and kids - demographics who just don't understand, or even care, that the game they're playing is essentially a high-definition port of an N64 game.
Self-Plagiarism, never heard that world before, at first I thought you were making it up :p due to the oxymoron.

People above have already talked about people wanting more of the same stuff so Nintendo simply caters to it, it's a good business plan, just keep giving the masses what they want.
I have a theory that they're trying to bring the success of their older games to the new generations. See how Half-life is barely mentioned by the younger generations (despite it's fame) but despite Mario's age everyone still knows who he is.
 

Scrustle

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New IP =/= innovation. Conversely, old IP =/= not innovative. I'm kind of tired of people saying that game series aren't innovative because they're based on an old IP. Just because they are taking characters and settings that have been around for a long time doesn't mean they're not innovative in mechanics. It's not just Nintendo, it applies to other old series too. The reverse is true as well. There's plenty of new IPs popping up that don't innovate. They may invent new characters and a new world, but they're often just trying to imitate the formula of so many other games before it.

But despite that I do think Nintendo is recycling their ideas too much, with some of their franchises at least. There hasn't really been a new idea in the Mario series since Mario Galaxy. Since then it's just been trying to recapture the feeling of the pre-3D era with shinier graphics and much more forgiving gameplay.

Skyward Sword did shake things up a bit in the Zelda series, but it didn't shake things up enough. It's seeing competition in a genre it's pretty much had to itself for ages, but it's not acting like it. A lot of the changes they made in that game weren't necessarily for the better, either.

I'm not really that familiar with the Pikmin franchise but from what I can tell Pikmin 3 isn't Earth-shatteringly different from the previous games at all.

Metroid and Starfox are kind of dormant right now so they can't really be discussed. I don't really know much about the Kirby franchise, but Epic Yarn was supposed to bring some cool new innovations to the genre, I've heard.

Pokemon has definitely gotten very tired with lack of innovation. People say that gen. 4 and 5 did add in some big changes, but I don't think so. As someone who used to be a big Pokemon fan I never noticed anything significant in gen. 4, and although I didn't play gen. 5 there doesn't seem to be much change their either. Changing minor things in how battles work doesn't count. The experience of the games is pretty much the same in every game. Turn based battles with type match-ups; travelling across the land through towns and routes encountering wild Pokemon to capture and raise; beat the 8 gyms and the Elite 4; take down the criminal organisation and uncover the sub-plot about the legendary Pokemon. It's the same every time, just with a different coat of paint and very slight tweaks that you wouldn't even notice if they weren't explicitly pointed out to you.

I think the worst offenders are Mario and Pokemon. They actually are recycling ideas far too much. Zelda has a problem with it too, but not quite so much as Mario and Pokemon. Each game still usually has some kind of unique hook to it.

But I want to stress just one last time, an old IP does not mean there's no innovation and it's just the same thing over and over. An IP is just a collection of names and aesthetic styles. You can do whatever you want with an IP in terms of gameplay. Just look at the many different genres Mario has dabbled in. The main platforming series (and arguably some of the other spin-off series) may have gotten stale, but that's not because Mario is an old IP. It's because Nintendo aren't trying hard enough to do something new in that area.

Nintendoland isn't lacking innovation because it's got Mario, Zelda and Metoid in it. In fact, It think some of the ideas they are trying in that are pretty innovative. Take the game that used to be called "Chase Mii" when it was just a tech demo. That looks like a cool little way to have what they called "asymmetric multiplayer". Just because the characters now wear Toad costumes doesn't mean the game has suddenly lost all innovation that it had. I'd also argue that Wii Sports wasn't particularly innovative at all. They were just tech demos. Nintendoland could probably be dealt the same criticism, but at least they're actually trying to create completely new games with it. With Wii Sports they just took games that everybody knew already and had you control them with the Wiimote. It can't have taken more than 10 minutes for someone to come up with the idea that you can swing a Wiimote to simulate a tennis racket, a bowling ball or a golf club. That took no original effort. But Nintendo had to think about how they could make a unique game for the WiiU to show off how they could utilise having one player seeing the game differently to everyone else. What characters you play as makes no difference.

Nintendo is recycling ideas a bit too much, but it doesn't matter whether the games are called Mario or Zelda or whatever. They could have every single game they've ever made have a different name and setting, but if the gameplay remains the same then there wouldn't be any more innovation than we're seeing now.
 

Lunar Templar

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Batou667 said:
Nintendo are the worst culprits in living memory for self-plagiarism.

Ridiculously, it doesn't seem to have hurt them. Perhaps that's what their fanbase wanted all along, or perhaps the static selection of IP on offer has filtered out the parts of the fanbase that want different experiences. Nintendo also seem to have established themselves as the brand of choice for casuals and kids - demographics who just don't understand, or even care, that the game they're playing is essentially a high-definition port of an N64 game.
really? I'd thought EA was WAY worse the Nintendo

least Nintendo tweaks they're games a little
 

The Rascal King

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Batou667 said:
Nintendo also seem to have established themselves as the brand of choice for casuals and kids - demographics who just don't understand, or even care, that the game they're playing is essentially a high-definition port of an N64 game.
You're wrong. What about games like Pikmin, hmm? They're paying for high-definition ports of Gamecube games, too. Get your facts straight before you talk shit.

Ya jerk
 

Ashadowpie

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find a screen cap of New Super Mario Wii, than find a screen cap of any mario game side scroller, just walk away for a bit and come back, not remembering which game is which.....they all...look the SAME! * head desk *

Mario games are fun. . .why dont cha change the art style a bit eh? Nintendo?


cheap bastards. . .
 

Batou667

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The Rascal King said:
You're wrong. What about games like Pikmin, hmm? They're paying for high-definition ports of Gamecube games, too. Get your facts straight before you talk shit.

Ya jerk
Yikes. I stand corrected!
 

BNguyen

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This is about the same as EA re-releasing their same Madden games every six-months or so with a simple color-palette addition or change in team names, or like how Call of Duty is constantly being released with very few new additions, to say that Nintendo is stagnating and no one else is just flat out ignorance of how stale the entire market has become.
Everything nowadays seems to only revolve around first-person shooters, sports games, and zombies. While Nintendo may be utilizing their same company figures at least the games themselves are significantly different from one another in terms of their content. The stories may be similar but the visuals and worlds in which they take place are not alike, at least not entirely.
That and the fact that as Nintendo offers new ways to enjoy their games with changes in the controller and console interaction, Microsoft and Sony seem to remain set in stone with their controller designs that haven't changed since they came out and they have only recently been trying to take away the spotlight with what the Wii began.
 

Myndnix

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Yes, Nintendo are doing that, but so are a lot of people, such as, as people have already pointed out, EA.
If people want to keep buying the same games again and again, there's not much anyone can do about that except keep making money off of it.
 

SD-Fiend

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Ashadowpie said:
find a screen cap of New Super Mario Wii, than find a screen cap of any mario game side scroller, just walk away for a bit and come back, not remembering which game is which.....they all...look the SAME! * head desk *

Mario games are fun. . .why dont cha change the art style a bit eh? Nintendo?


cheap bastards. . .
Does Super Paper Mario count (as a change in art style) when compared to New SMB?
 

SD-Fiend

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Scrustle said:
Pokemon has definitely gotten very tired with lack of innovation. People say that gen. 4 and 5 did add in some big changes, but I don't think so. As someone who used to be a big Pokemon fan I never noticed anything significant in gen. 4, and although I didn't play gen. 5 there doesn't seem to be much change their either. Changing minor things in how battles work doesn't count. The experience of the games is pretty much the same in every game. Turn based battles with type match-ups; travelling across the land through towns and routes encountering wild Pokemon to capture and raise; beat the 8 gyms and the Elite 4; take down the criminal organisation and uncover the sub-plot about the legendary Pokemon. It's the same every time, just with a different coat of paint and very slight tweaks that you wouldn't even notice if they weren't explicitly pointed out to you.
but what about the side games? Yes the Main pokemon games haven't changed much but they do offer different ways to play pokemon through the spin off games like mystery dungeon or Trozei. And the Physical/special split in Gen 4 did change how battling works quite a bit.
 

Scrustle

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werewolfsfury said:
Scrustle said:
Pokemon has definitely gotten very tired with lack of innovation. People say that gen. 4 and 5 did add in some big changes, but I don't think so. As someone who used to be a big Pokemon fan I never noticed anything significant in gen. 4, and although I didn't play gen. 5 there doesn't seem to be much change their either. Changing minor things in how battles work doesn't count. The experience of the games is pretty much the same in every game. Turn based battles with type match-ups; travelling across the land through towns and routes encountering wild Pokemon to capture and raise; beat the 8 gyms and the Elite 4; take down the criminal organisation and uncover the sub-plot about the legendary Pokemon. It's the same every time, just with a different coat of paint and very slight tweaks that you wouldn't even notice if they weren't explicitly pointed out to you.
but what about the side games? Yes the Main pokemon games haven't changed much but they do offer different ways to play pokemon through the spin off games like mystery dungeon or Trozei. And the Physical/special split in Gen 4 did change how battling works quite a bit.
Having different spin-offs doesn't excuse lack of innovation in the main series. Just as I'm not going to forgive lack of innovation in Mario platformers because Mario Tennis Open exists, or I won't forgive lack of innovation in Zelda because Link's Crossbow Training or Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland exists.
 

Stavros Dimou

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My biggest realization that something bad is going on with Nintendo came up when I was playing New Super Mario Bros Wii.

I thought it would be nice to play a throwback to classic 2D Mario games.

Yet I didn't expected that 95% of the music would be unimaginative remixes of the soundtracks of old games. Neither that I'd come to play the exact same mini-game with cards that I played on Super Mario Bros 3,and (surprise,surprise!) the card layout to BE THE EXACT SAME AS IT WAS IN SUPER MARIO BROS 3. I instinctively found my self trying the memorized layout of the cards from SUPER MARIO BROS 3 in NEW SUPER MARIO BROS WII's mini game,and surprisingly I found out that they didn't just ported the mini-game itself,but also the layouts of the way the cards are spread. So with each new 2 clicks I was getting a new item.
Except from that,the map-hub worked exactly the same way as it did on SUPER MARIO BROS 3,the worlds had the same THEMES that they had in SUPER MARIO BROS 3,6 out of 8 worlds where in the exact same order one after another as they where in SUPER MARIO BROS 3,the game featured the same bosses as SUPER MARIO BROS 3,and they acted the exact same way they did in SUPER MARIO BROS 3,and last but not least, about 40% of the final airship level on NEW SUPER MARIO BROS WII features THE EXACT SAME LEVEL DESIGN as an airship level from SUPER MARIO BROS 3. (!!!)

This isn't good obviously.

I don't wonder why Yahtzee stated in his latest review that he won't review New Super Mario Bros 2 or any other game of the franchise from now and on.

It's because if you played one of them,is like you played all of them.
 

Haefulz

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Nintendo does do a lot of recycling and rehashing, but if people keep eating it up, more power to them. And Nintendo is good at it too, so I don't even mind. Keep churning out awesome Pokemon games that aren't vastly different from previous entries and I promise I will keep buying them. And most of the Mario games have been really fun, even if it's a lot of the same over and over again.