Is Rap Music Really Music?

[Alucard832]

This isn't to shit on rap and everyone that listens to it, but to show that it simply does not fit the definition of music. There is no melody, no singing, no instruments, etc. The only instrument-like sounds form a beat, and that just doesn't cut it. Talking is not singing as any elementary school music teacher will point out. And yea, the subject matter being 90% about crime, drugs, and bitches does not help rap's case. You can be entertained by it all you want, but don't try to pass it off a music.

I would personally listen to Justin Beiber before any rap song, so I can't wait until all the kids and general public get over this whole genre.

The subject of a lot of rock and roll was drugs and women (crime to a lesser extent). Take Led Zeppelin's "Living Loving Maid". Take Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood". Velvet Underground, "Venus In Furs". Hell, "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest. All bands and songs that I like, FYI.

I'm not going to tell you that you SHOULD like something, but you should at least acknowledge it has artistic merit in the form of music. Rap can be as thought provoking and deep as any other musical medium. Just like gaming has games devoid of any artistic merit, you have games which are powerful and resonating. Don't tar the genre with one gigantic brush.

I never said other genre's were without such topics, but the ratio in rap is way off. Even if a small minority of rap is deep or thought provoking, that doesn't just magically make it music.

 

[stone0042]

Music is, at it's core, a way to deliver a message. It is essentially poetry, with accompanying sounds. While I will concede that the a large portion of rap is superficial and lacks deep meaning, the same can be said of many genres. Rap is quite certainly music.

 

[Choppaduel]

I call this music. Do you call this Rap?

 

[EchetusXe]

I say no. I define music...

Wait, we can start making up our own definitions for things?

I define the government as a political system that ensures my will is carried out without question, all the universe bows before my supreme intellect la la lalala lala la la la lala lalala lala la la lala

 

[IAmTheVoid]

This isn't to shit on rap and everyone that listens to it, but to show that it simply does not fit the definition of music. There is no melody, no singing, no instruments, etc. The only instrument-like sounds form a beat, and that just doesn't cut it. Talking is not singing as any elementary school music teacher will point out. And yea, the subject matter being 90% about crime, drugs, and bitches does not help rap's case. You can be entertained by it all you want, but don't try to pass it off a music.

I would personally listen to Justin Beiber before any rap song, so I can't wait until all the kids and general public get over this whole genre.

The subject of a lot of rock and roll was drugs and women (crime to a lesser extent). Take Led Zeppelin's "Living Loving Maid". Take Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood". Velvet Underground, "Venus In Furs". Hell, "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest. All bands and songs that I like, FYI.

I'm not going to tell you that you SHOULD like something, but you should at least acknowledge it has artistic merit in the form of music. Rap can be as thought provoking and deep as any other musical medium. Just like gaming has games devoid of any artistic merit, you have games which are powerful and resonating. Don't tar the genre with one gigantic brush.

I never said other genre's were without such topics, but the ratio in rap is way off. Even if a small minority of rap is deep or thought provoking, that doesn't just magically make it music.

Why should there have to be a ratio- not that I believe what you are saying is right- which determines artistic qualities? Groups like NWA rapped about what was relevant to them in their neighbourhoods and the lives which they lived. I believe you're judging an entire genre of 50 Cent and other mediocre-to-crap rappers who do fulfill your stereotype of rap music. They are not the be-all and end-all of rap. I'd almost certainly say that that 90% of rap is about 'guns, bitches and bling'. It's not that black and white.

 

[IAmTheVoid]

This isn't to shit on rap and everyone that listens to it, but to show that it simply does not fit the definition of music. There is no melody, no singing, no instruments, etc. The only instrument-like sounds form a beat, and that just doesn't cut it. Talking is not singing as any elementary school music teacher will point out. And yea, the subject matter being 90% about crime, drugs, and bitches does not help rap's case. You can be entertained by it all you want, but don't try to pass it off a music.

I would personally listen to Justin Beiber before any rap song, so I can't wait until all the kids and general public get over this whole genre.

The subject of a lot of rock and roll was drugs and women (crime to a lesser extent). Take Led Zeppelin's "Living Loving Maid". Take Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood". Velvet Underground, "Venus In Furs". Hell, "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest. All bands and songs that I like, FYI.

I'm not going to tell you that you SHOULD like something, but you should at least acknowledge it has artistic merit in the form of music. Rap can be as thought provoking and deep as any other musical medium. Just like gaming has games devoid of any artistic merit, you have games which are powerful and resonating. Don't tar the genre with one gigantic brush.

I never said other genre's were without such topics, but the ratio in rap is way off. Even if a small minority of rap is deep or thought provoking, that doesn't just magically make it music.

Why should there have to be a ratio- not that I believe what you are saying is right- which determines artistic qualities? Groups like NWA rapped about what was relevant to them in their neighbourhoods and the lives which they lived. I believe you're judging an entire genre of 50 Cent and other mediocre-to-crap rappers who do fulfill your stereotype of rap music. They are not the be-all and end-all of rap. I'd almost certainly say that that 90% of rap is about 'guns, bitches and bling'. It's not that black and white.

 

[Harbinger_]

To quote Yahtzee:

Short answer: No

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Buzz Killington_v1legacy]

the subject matter being 90% about crime, drugs, and bitches

I'm just going to leave these here:

Spoiler: As a bonus, this video should appeal to a few of you...

Spoiler: And this one was shot all in one take.

 

[RYjet911]

Message aside though, if the lead voice (be it vocal or instrumental) isn't melodic, then it's not music, it's words being spoken with musical backing. There's a difference. Like I said, I'm not condemning rap as not being worth listening to, I'm just saying it's not music, it's something else.

Then don't consider the rap itself as the 'lead voice', and instead as complimentary purcussion, and instead focus on the melody normally done within the background music itself.

 

[loc978]

...it has rhythmic and melodic structure, so yes, it's music. Disliking something doesn't give someone the right to change its technical classification. Even completely random discordant music is still technically music.

 

[McGuinty1]

Is it. Rap, from what I understand, stands for Rhythm and Poetry and I've noticed it's just slowed down disco (well really early rap like this:

Yeah, well reggae started out as slowed down ska, and look how that turned out. Just because you dislike certain attributes common to music in genre X doesn't justify dismissing the entire genre. Just because I dislike the tendency prog bands have to show off with pointless noodling and overwrought lyrics (especially those based on the works of Ayn fuckin' Rand), it does not follow that all prog is worthless dreck.

There is good music and shitty music in every genre, and it's up to you to decide what you enjoy listening to, not to condemn an entire subgroup based on limited experience. Personally, I love being taken by surprise by music, and a lot of records that I had a negative first reaction to ended up being some of my very favorites (Trout Mask Replica!!). If you don't like John Coltrane or Miles Davis, I'm not going to fault you, as their records are dense and can be hard to get into on the first listen. But if you then say, "Jazz is not music", the gloves are off buddy.


Edit: Also OP, you should look up some different definitions of "music". I'm pretty sure that not one of them has melody as a requirement, only a feature common to different forms of music.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

And like that, my faith in The Escapist community is restored. Now, let's play a tune...

 

[AvitaDeva]

This isn't to shit on rap and everyone that listens to it, but to show that it simply does not fit the definition of music. There is no melody, no singing, no instruments, etc. The only instrument-like sounds form a beat, and that just doesn't cut it. Talking is not singing as any elementary school music teacher will point out. And yea, the subject matter being 90% about crime, drugs, and bitches does not help rap's case. You can be entertained by it all you want, but don't try to pass it off a music.

I would personally listen to Justin Beiber before any rap song, so I can't wait until all the kids and general public get over this whole genre.

I hate to call you ignorant or anything like that but it seems you are unaware of what singing can constitute.

singing is the act of producing musical sounds with the voice, and augments regular speech by the use of both tonality and rhythm. A person who sings is called a singer or vocalist. Singers perform music known as songs that can either be sung a cappella (without accompaniment) or accompanied by musicians and instruments ranging from a single instrumentalist to a full symphony orchestra or big band

Rapping is all about the tone of ones voice and and the rhythm in which they project a rhyme...This means they can be considered as singing...now if you listen to a rapper they don't rap how they talk do they this means their voice has been augmented to fit the background music...according to your logic a lot of metal can not be music because there is very little of what most people would consider sing. You argument is also flawed because i have never heard a rap song recorded which did not feature a single instrument...and if there is the human voice can also be considered an instrument and thus you are horribly under informed sir. lastly subject matter does not change the key fact presented above if i sang a song about fucking a unicorn with a razor dildo it would not be any less music...it would be wrong and immoral but no less music.

Maybe your opinions require more research...maybe you should do some before you post it would make you sound better informed friend...I can't wait for people to get over Hip hop becoming a popular medium for musical expression...when that day comes whoa what a site it will be

 

[AvitaDeva]

To quote Yahtzee:

Short answer: No

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

wow i bet it took you a while to think of that...good job

 

[Mr Scott]

Besides a few tracks my feelings are thus:

Retards
Attempting
Poetry

 

[Harbinger_]

To quote Yahtzee:

Short answer: No

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

wow i bet it took you a while to think of that...good job

Actually it didn't believe it or not. I thought of that in pretty much 3 seconds. Go me! I'm original!

 

[silasbufu]

"Music - the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity."

It's music by definition, whether you like it or not. And not only is it music, it's art.

It would seem obvious for any rap fan to tell you right now that "you have had a limited experience with rap music, so you don't know what you're talking about", and as much as I would like to be original in this post, I can't find a better answer. You don't know what you're talking about, and it's obvious.

Exactly. Sure, if your only experience with rap is this (even Ludacris thinks that track is foolish) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXzlRoNtHU] then I would understand hating rap.

To put this in terms you would probably understand (for this experiment, let's assume you're a metalhead). Imagine someone who has never listened to music before listened to BrokenCYDE and then claimed that all metal is bad and not even music. You would probably say something like "Those guys aren't even metal! Even I think their music sucks!"

By the way, this has a melody:


Sure, it's autotuned like crazy, by you contradicted yourself. That's music by your definition of music, yet it's also rap by definition of rap.

Yes, I'm a massive Kanye West fan and I'm also a Phoenix Wright fan. What of it?

Kanye is a fantastic rapper, iregardles of what he sometimes says or does. I don't like him as a person but I give credit where it's due.
Aside from alot of great songs of his, like the one you posted, he produced alot of amazing ones for other rappers like Jay-Z and Common.

 

[BonsaiK]

I say no. I define music very simply as something having a musical melody. Sung, played, strummed, doesn't matter, as long as it's present. Speaking quickly does not a melody make. Thus rap isn't music.

Which is not to say there's no rap out there worth listening to; on the contrary, some is both worthwhile and socially relevant. However, when the vast majority of it is about how cool it is to be a criminal, or to have hot bitches and big TVs, I think society as a whole can do without that.

Clarification edit: I'm not saying rap is bad or not worth listening to, in fact I'm quite fond of quite a bit of it. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be classified as music, it should be classified as something else that's similar but different.

Technically, you're wrong. Rap is music. Period. You may define music as something that has a musical melody, but that is not a technically correct definition of music, and I am saying this as someone who is both academically and professionally qualified to tell you this. If rap was not music because it does not contain melody, tribal drumming would also not be music, in fact all drumming would not be music, most of Led Zeppelin's "Moby Dick" wouldn't be music, and even orchestral pieces like Edgard Varese's "Ionisation" that are built entirely from percussive instruments would also not be music.

However, rap does have melody anyway, even when it's not trying to have one. When people speak, they pitch their words just like they pitch their notes when they sing, therefore speech actually has a melody. The better rappers often exploit this to add a dynamic flow to a piece:


Pretend the sing-songy chorus isn't there, and listen to the rapper. Notice his pitch change up and down to emphasise certain phrases, listen as he does more of it as the song progresses. His vocals certainly aren't singing in the traditional sense but could nevertheless easily be written down as musical notation, because he IS pitching notes. I hope you're also noticing the staunchly anti-materialistic lyrics.

Having said that, a lot of rappers don't know a lot about the technical side of music and thus don't consider themselves musicians. That however doesn't mean that they're not making music. You don't have to understand everything about music to be able to make it, just like you don't have to understand the workings of an internal combustion engine in order to be a driver.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Rap doesn't have melodies?

U MAD?

Well, the best stuff usually does. But music doesn't necessarily need melodies (tribal drum beats anyone? The intro to Am I Evil? doesn't have a melody and that's music). As much as I dislike a lot of rap I wouldn't say it's not music.

 

[Tranka Verrane]

I am 41 years old. Today the OP made me feel like I was a teenager by comparison. Thanks for that.

TL;DR to the thread as a whole but of course rap music is music. Some of it is quite the best music around. Equally some of it is the worst. If you are in the US I suspect you are exposed to more of the bad stuff than we are here in the UK, the Atlantic makes a great filter.