Is the hatred for EA really justified?

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PandyBear

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Oct 24, 2008
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First off, Over the past god knows how many years EA has brought some classic games to our living rooms, and has also brought some shockers that would be in dire need of burning at the stake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Electronic_Arts_games

If you've been paying attention to many forums around the net, you will often read many comments both praising and flaming about recent actions/decisions and recently releases/up coming titles.

But getting to the point, does the Good out weigh the Bad. With almost universal hatred towards the DRM they now use which most certainly seems to have increased piracy towards many of EAs recent titles. But that said, many new releases have actually been ok or pretty good (been playing dead space, and i have to say i actually been enjoying it) But deep down i cant help feel but feel like EA never learns from its mistakes or from their customers comments.

I get the feeling i'm going to get some flak for this but anywho, feel free to comment as i'd like to know everyones opinion on them. Good and bad.
 

Dogeman5

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Apr 8, 2008
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For the most part, we hates it
The individual developers under their wings are not evil but they themselves are evil.
 

Lt. Sera

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It's not only DRM which makes EA bad. They have an aweful track record concerning patches (ask any C&C player online). Their business model is so optimized for milking the fans of a product and yet still they're talking about how to make more money off an IP.

EA is quantity over quality.

So yes, they make fun games, but they certainly also deserve the flak they get.
 

Matthicus

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Jul 24, 2008
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Well, they're pretty good at making sports games as far as I can tell. I don't really play them so I can't say for sure, but my friends seem to like them a lot. If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
 

PandyBear

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Lt. Sera post=9.75027.854214 said:
It's not only DRM which makes EA bad. They have an aweful track record concerning patches (ask any C&C player online). Their business model is so optimized for milking the fans of a product and yet still they're talking about how to make more money off an IP.

EA is quantity over quality.

So yes, they make fun games, but they certainly also deserve the flak they get.
As far as i'm concerned C&C has never been the same since Westwood studios were merged/closed down. I am looking forward to Red Alert 3, but i feel like i'm being bent over a barrel with the DRM they feel they need to enforce on us in a frail attempt to cut down on piracy/second-hand sales. So it's either go legit, buy the proper thing and suffer with the piss poor DRM, or i hate to suggest it, pursue a cracked version of the game.
 

LivemeLifefree

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I actually like EA. Sure, they do some dumb things, but what company doesn't? Their ammount of sport games I don't care about, but EA has brought me Rock Band, and other such great games. Plus, Burnout Paradise was pretty amazing.
 

glambo

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yes, it is. ive had more problems with EA PC games than i can even remember. their sports games are given new menu/loading screens, repackaged and sold under new titles. the last time i played an EA game that i didnt feel was raping my wallet was NHL 94. evil.
 

PandyBear

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Matthicus post=9.75027.854215 said:
Well, they're pretty good at making sports games as far as I can tell. I don't really play them so I can't say for sure, but my friends seem to like them a lot. If I'm wrong, please set me straight.
I'm not much of a sports fan, but i don't think kindly upon being charged nearly £40 for what essentially is a yearly "update" with the all dreaded EA trax -.-'
 

axia777

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The games are not evil. The DRM and SecuROM are evil.

Read this to see what EA does to it's workers.

EA: The Human Story
My significant other works for Electronic Arts, and I'm what you might call a disgruntled spouse.

EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging much of anything to me; it sounds like a money farm. To any EA executive that happens to read this, I have a good challenge for you: how about safe and sane labor practices for the people on whose backs you walk for your millions?

I am retaining some anonymity here because I have no illusions about what the consequences would be for my family if I was explicit. However, I also feel no impetus to shy away from sharing our story, because I know that it is too common to stick out among those of the thousands of engineers, artists, and designers that EA employs.

Our adventures with Electronic Arts began less than a year ago. The small game studio that my partner worked for collapsed as a result of foul play on the part of a big publisher -- another common story. Electronic Arts offered a job, the salary was right and the benefits were good, so my SO took it. I remember that they asked him in one of the interviews: "how do you feel about working long hours?" It's just a part of the game industry -- few studios can avoid a crunch as deadlines loom, so we thought nothing of it. When asked for specifics about what "working long hours" meant, the interviewers coughed and glossed on to the next question; now we know why.

Within weeks production had accelerated into a 'mild' crunch: eight hours six days a week. Not bad. Months remained until any real crunch would start, and the team was told that this "pre-crunch" was to prevent a big crunch toward the end; at this point any other need for a crunch seemed unlikely, as the project was dead on schedule. I don't know how many of the developers bought EA's explanation for the extended hours; we were new and naive so we did. The producers even set a deadline; they gave a specific date for the end of the crunch, which was still months away from the title's shipping date, so it seemed safe. That date came and went. And went, and went. When the next news came it was not about a reprieve; it was another acceleration: twelve hours six days a week, 9am to 10pm.

Weeks passed. Again the producers had given a termination date on this crunch that again they failed. Throughout this period the project remained on schedule. The long hours started to take its toll on the team; people grew irritable and some started to get ill. People dropped out in droves for a couple of days at a time, but then the team seemed to reach equilibrium again and they plowed ahead. The managers stopped even talking about a day when the hours would go back to normal.

Now, it seems, is the "real" crunch, the one that the producers of this title so wisely prepared their team for by running them into the ground ahead of time. The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). This averages out to an eighty-five hour work week. Complaints that these once more extended hours combined with the team's existing fatigue would result in a greater number of mistakes made and an even greater amount of wasted energy were ignored.

The stress is taking its toll. After a certain number of hours spent working the eyes start to lose focus; after a certain number of weeks with only one day off fatigue starts to accrue and accumulate exponentially. There is a reason why there are two days in a weekend -- bad things happen to one's physical, emotional, and mental health if these days are cut short. The team is rapidly beginning to introduce as many flaws as they are removing.

And the kicker: for the honor of this treatment EA salaried employees receive a) no overtime; b) no compensation time! ('comp' time is the equalization of time off for overtime -- any hours spent during a crunch accrue into days off after the product has shipped); c) no additional sick or vacation leave. The time just goes away. Additionally, EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it. Further, since the production of various games is scattered, there was a concern on the part of the employees that developers would leave one crunch only to join another. EA's response was that they would attempt to minimize this, but would make no guarantees. This is unthinkable; they are pushing the team to individual physical health limits, and literally giving them nothing for it. Comp time is a staple in this industry, but EA as a corporation wishes to "minimize" this reprieve. One would think that the proper way to minimize comp time is to avoid crunch, but this brutal crunch has been on for months, and nary a whisper about any compensation leave, nor indeed of any end of this treatment.

This crunch also differs from crunch time in a smaller studio in that it was not an emergency effort to save a project from failure. Every step of the way, the project remained on schedule. Crunching neither accelerated this nor slowed it down; its effect on the actual product was not measurable. The extended hours were deliberate and planned; the management knew what they were doing as they did it. The love of my life comes home late at night complaining of a headache that will not go away and a chronically upset stomach, and my happy supportive smile is running out.

No one works in the game industry unless they love what they do. No one on that team is interested in producing an inferior product. My heart bleeds for this team precisely BECAUSE they are brilliant, talented individuals out to create something great. They are and were more than willing to work hard for the success of the title. But that good will has only been met with abuse. Amazingly, Electronic Arts was listed #91 on Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work For" in 2003.

EA's attitude toward this -- which is actually a part of company policy, it now appears -- has been (in an anonymous quotation that I've heard repeated by multiple managers), "If they don't like it, they can work someplace else." Put up or shut up and leave: this is the core of EA's Human Resources policy. The concept of ethics or compassion or even intelligence with regard to getting the most out of one's workforce never enters the equation: if they don't want to sacrifice their lives and their health and their talent so that a multibillion dollar corporation can continue its Godzilla-stomp through the game industry, they can work someplace else.

But can they?

The EA Mambo, paired with other giants such as Vivendi, Sony, and Microsoft, is rapidly either crushing or absorbing the vast majority of the business in game development. A few standalone studios that made their fortunes in previous eras -- Blizzard, Bioware, and Id come to mind -- manage to still survive, but 2004 saw the collapse of dozens of small game studios, no longer able to acquire contracts in the face of rapid and massive consolidation of game publishing companies. This is an epidemic hardly unfamiliar to anyone working in the industry. Though, of course, it is always the option of talent to go outside the industry, perhaps venturing into the booming commercial software development arena. (Read my tired attempt at sarcasm.)

To put some of this in perspective, I myself consider some figures. If EA truly believes that it needs to push its employees this hard -- I actually believe that they don't, and that it is a skewed operations perspective alone that results in the severity of their crunching, coupled with a certain expected amount of the inefficiency involved in running an enterprise as large as theirs -- the solution therefore should be to hire more engineers, or artists, or designers, as the case may be. Never should it be an option to punish one's workforce with ninety hour weeks; in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank. In its first weekend, Madden 2005 grossed $65 million. EA's annual revenue is approximately $2.5 billion. This company is not strapped for cash; their labor practices are inexcusable.

The interesting thing about this is an assumption that most of the employees seem to be operating under. Whenever the subject of hours come up, inevitably, it seems, someone mentions 'exemption'. They refer to a California law that supposedly exempts businesses from having to pay overtime to certain 'specialty' employees, including software programmers. This is Senate Bill 88. However, Senate Bill 88 specifically does not apply to the entertainment industry -- television, motion picture, and theater industries are specifically mentioned. Further, even in software, there is a pay minimum on the exemption: those exempt must be paid at least $90,000 annually. I can assure you that the majority of EA employees are in fact not in this pay bracket; ergo, these practices are not only unethical, they are illegal.

I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works. So now we know, now we can move on, right? That seems to be what happens to everyone else. But it's not enough. Because in the end, regardless of what happens with our particular situation, this kind of "business" isn't right, and people need to know about it, which is why I write this today.

If I could get EA CEO Larry Probst on the phone, there are a few things I would ask him. "What's your salary?" would be merely a point of curiosity. The main thing I want to know is, Larry: you do realize what you're doing to your people, right? And you do realize that they ARE people, with physical limits, emotional lives, and families, right? Voices and talents and senses of humor and all that? That when you keep our husbands and wives and children in the office for ninety hours a week, sending them home exhausted and numb and frustrated with their lives, it's not just them you're hurting, but everyone around them, everyone who loves them? When you make your profit calculations and your cost analyses, you know that a great measure of that cost is being paid in raw human dignity, right?

Right?

http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html

Supposedly working conditions got better after EA lost the law suit against them for unpaid overtime. That is documented here.

Top News
Programmers Win EA Overtime Settlement, EA_Spouse Revealed

Programmers Win EA Overtime Settlement, EA_Spouse Revealed Software engineers have won a $14.9 million settlement from Electronic Arts, in a settlement of a California class-action lawsuit over unpaid overtime, following a similar $15.6 million settlement reached in October with graphic artists.

According to the new settlement, some of the entry level programmers will be reclassified as hourly workers, making them eligible for overtime pay. In return, they will be allowed a one time grant of restricted company stock, but will no longer receive stock options or bonuses.

The $14.9 settlement money will go to programmers at various levels who worked at Electronic Arts between February 14th, 2001 and February 14th, 2006. The settlement is expected to be a catalyst for changes, not only in other video games publishers and developers, but in other software companies outside of the games industry.

EA also announced that any unclaimed portion of the settlement will be go to the Ronald McDonald House Charities and to establish scholarships at five selected universities for female and under-represented minority students interested in studying interactive entertainment. The five universities are Carnegie Mellon University, Cornell University, Georgia Tech, Stanford University, and Morehouse/Spelman College.

In the wake of the first settlement last year, Electronic Arts reclassified around 440 employees, including 200 entry level artists, so that they could claim overtime. Major deadlines were also moved to Fridays instead of Mondays in order to encourage a normal five day working week.

Following this major announcement, Silicon Valley newspaper the San Jose Mercury News has published an article revealing the identity of the much-discussed EA_Spouse to be Erin Hoffman, the then-fiancee of Electronic Arts programmer Leander Hasty, one of the specifically named plaintiffs in the employment-related lawsuits against EA. He filed the suit after experiencing extreme 'crunch time' developing Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-Earth at Electronic Arts Los Angeles.

The two are now married, and work together in Troy, New York as designer and programmer respectively at independent developer 1st Playable Productions, and are working on website Gamewatch.org to help discuss and monitor problems with working conditions in the game industry.


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9051

Also here is a list of studios that EA has bought, chopped up and killed. Many of them were very much loved by their fans.

Studios Opened or Acquired

* 1998: EA Tiburon in Maitland, Florida
* 1999: EA Canada in Burnaby, British Columbia
* 2000: EA Los Angeles in Los Angeles, California
* 2002: EA Black Box in Vancouver, British Columbia
* 2004: Criterion Software in Guildford, United Kingdom
* 2004: Digital Illusions CE in Stockholm, Sweden
* 2004: EA China in Shanghai, China
* 2004: EA Montreal in Montreal, Quebec
* 2005: EA Mobile
* 2005: EA Redwood Shores in Redwood City, California
* 2005: EA Singapore
* 2006: EA Mobile India, Hyderabad, India
* 2006: EA Mythic in Fairfax, Virginia
* 2006: EA Phenomic in Ingelheim, Germany
* 2006: EA Salt Lake in Bountiful, Utah (Formerly Headgate Studios)
* 2007: EA Casual Entertainment
* 2007: EIS (European Integration Studio) in Madrid, Spain
* 2007: BioWare Corp. in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and Austin, Texas
* 2007: Pandemic Studios in Los Angeles, California and Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
* 2007: EA UK, relocated to Guildford from Chertsey
* 2008: EA Korea in Seoul, South Korea
* 2008: EA Studio in Bucharest, Romania


Studios Closed

* 1998: Original HQ in San Mateo, California - moved to Redwood City
* 2000: EA Baltimore in Baltimore, Maryland - established in 1996 as part of Origin
* 2001: Kesmai (known also as GameStorm); acquired in 1999
* 2001: Bullfrog Productions in Surrey, England - acquired in 1995
* 2002: EA Seattle in Seattle, Washington - formerly Manley & Associates, acquired in 1996
* 2003: Westwood Studios in Las Vegas, Nevada - acquired in 1998
* 2003: EA Pacific (known for a time as Westwood Pacific) in Irvine, California - formerly part of Virgin Interactive, acquired with Westwood in 1998
* 2004: Origin Systems in Austin, Texas - acquired in 1992
* 2004: Maxis in Walnut Creek, California - acquired in 1997, moved to Redwood City
* 2006: DICE Canada in London, Ontario (created Battlefield 2: Special Forces expansion, Battlefield Vietnam, and all BF2 patches). Acquired DICE fully October 2, 2006; closed DICE Canada studio hours later.
* 2007: EA Japan in Tokyo, Japan - closed due to consolidation; moved under EA Partners model
* 2007: EA UK in Chertsey, United Kingdom, relocated to Guildford
* 2007: EA Chicago in Chicago, Illinois. Closed due to failure to meet profit targets.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=183194

So you be the judge. EA evil? Or just your average huge corporation whose main goal is pumping up it's stock value? I hope that puts a little perspective on things.

By the way, I still want Dead Space and Star Wars:The Old Republic.
 

axia777

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Lt. Sera post=9.75027.854295 said:
Axia, maybe put that wall o' text in spoiler text for easier thread browsing?

Care to share that code so I can do so now?
 

The Wooster

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Jul 15, 2008
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I hate EA not because they're shitty but because they're shitty and they used to be so god damn good. They made jungle strike for fucks sake.
 

PandyBear

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Oct 24, 2008
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Decoy Doctorpus post=9.75027.854303 said:
I hate EA not because they're shitty but because they're shitty and they used to be so god damn good. They made jungle strike for fucks sake.
Tis true, im still waiting for a sequel lol.... either that or Future Cop LAPD 2, i loved that game to bits xD
 

Lt. Sera

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axia777 post=9.75027.854302 said:
Lt. Sera post=9.75027.854295 said:
Axia, maybe put that wall o' text in spoiler text for easier thread browsing?

Care to share that code so I can do so now?
{spoiler="description goes here"}text and stuff{/spoiler} replace {'s with ['s.
 

axia777

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Oct 10, 2008
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Lt. Sera post=9.75027.854332 said:
axia777 post=9.75027.854302 said:
Lt. Sera post=9.75027.854295 said:
Axia, maybe put that wall o' text in spoiler text for easier thread browsing?

Care to share that code so I can do so now?
{spoiler="text goes here"}{/spoiler} replace {'s with ['s.
Thank you good sir.