It Dawned on me Today... [Skyrim]

[Darkmantle]

yeah, and all those were losts while imperial generals were in command. As soon as the redguards took matters in their own hands, they won! sur-fucking-prize. I see skyrim going this exact same way.

I fail to see how the empire defended it's own lands, the thalmor only left after making cyrodil it's puppet. Thalmor agents are all through the empire. they own the empire right now.

If by "as soon as" you mean "after years of constant gorilla fighting, and a general lack of giving a shit by the thalmor" then sure.

Also if you pay attention to people in Skyrim they make mention that The Thalmor actually had little to zero power before Ulfirc started his BS.

People act like The Thalmor are in every city blocks in the Empire when really they have little control over anything.

you know what, I'm not going to continue arguing with your warped version of the lore. You keep talking but none of what you say is true in the context of TES: skyrim, you seem to be making things up or severely twisting existing sources, and will never be convinced short of the developers telling you that you're wrong. And even then, you will dismiss it as a ret-con.

Make all the excuses and rationalizations you want, but hammerfell won, the imperials lost. so reguards>thalmor>empire no matter how you slice it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

you know what, I'm not going to continue arguing with your warped version of the lore. You keep talking but none of what you say is true in the context of TES: skyrim, you seem to be making things up or severely twisting existing sources, and will never be convinced short of the developers telling you that you're wrong. And even then, you will dismiss it as a ret-con.

Make all the excuses and rationalizations you want, but hammerfell won, the imperials lost. so reguards>thalmor>empire no matter how you slice it.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War
Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year. Titus II knew that there would be no better time to negotiate peace, and late in 4E 175 the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War.

The truth of that assertion can, of course, never be known. But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic - at the Battle of the Red Ring that weakened the Dominion enough to allow the eventual Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.


Try harder next time.

It took the Redguards 5 years of constant gorilla warfare to stalemate The Thalmor.

And even then.... the Redguards still couldn't beat The thalmor.

the only person i see twisting lore here is.... you.

 

[Darkmantle]

So anyway, back on topic.

why does everyone think the stormcloaks are racist, I seriously never got that vibe and am curious for how others reached that conclusion.

 

[Major Chip]

I figured the empire were doing what they had to do to stay in the fight against the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks were walking into the most obvious 'divide and conquer' strategy ever formulated.

I disliked this side of the game anyway. In the end, it felt as if the whole thing was worthless. A few Jarls change house and some new dialogue arrives, but nothing substantial. This plot should've eventually tied to the dragon war plot, instead of them being seperate things. There's always been this kind of issue with TES, plots don't merge properly.

The new arch-mage walks into the thieves/fighters guild and people don't bat an eyelid? The Thalmor try to kill me for no reason, and when I kill the next Thalmor I see, I get a bounty? I hope Bethesda take the criticism and focus it on DLC. Like how GTA4 did with The Ballad of Gay Tony, turning it back into the GTA we wanted, sorta.

 

[SajuukKhar]

So a free Skyrim in the long run does not harm the Empire that much but only weakens them. So Skyrim should have it's indepence as it is right to claim it. However I had hoped the civil war part to be longer and give me more influence over the outcome, perhaps even claiming the throne myself or somesuch. Hope the DLC expands on the events of the Civil War.

Skyrim is home to the Nords, one of the empires best group of warriors. Skyrim leaving would be a massive blow to The empires armed forces. furthermoe Uflric is too petty and self-serving to help The empire when the time comes to attack The Thalmor again.

Also they wont make a DLC based on the civil war.

The dovahkiin became Talos at the end of the civil war no matter which side he chooses, Bethesda is just going to pull another dragon-break event and make both endings happen like they did with Daggerfall.

 

[PurePareidolia]

Skyrim is just showing you that life sucks and you gotta deal with it.

I have problems believing a game about becoming a legendary magical dragonslayer who can do anything or go anywhere is genuinely trying to tell me life sucks and I should deal with it.

This being Bethesda it's more likely they wanted to make it an interesting moral choice but both were so evil there was no point in chosing either.

 

[SajuukKhar]

So anyway, back on topic.

why does everyone think the stormcloaks are racist, I seriously never got that vibe and am curious for how others reached that conclusion.

go to Windhelm... it becomes obvious if you spend more then 5 minutes there.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

In my first playthrough, I merrily went with the Stormcloaks all the way, and I didn't like it. But I started out hating the Imperials, so that was the path I had to take. In the end, I hated and despised some of the Stormcloak folks, and I pitied the rest. It was not a good feeling, and I was not happy.

It was also a rather quick walkthrough, as in A-B, dragon slain.

In my second walkthrough, I took the time to actually read all the books offering information on the matter, and I tried to make more educated decisions. So I found myself feeling quite happy with siding with the Imperials. It also made my story experience more complete and plenty of things made much more sense that way.

 

[Darkmantle]

Skyrim is just showing you that life sucks and you gotta deal with it.

I have problems believing a game about becoming a legendary magical dragonslayer who can do anything or go anywhere is genuinely trying to tell me life sucks and I should deal with it.

This being Bethesda it's more likely they wanted to make it an interesting moral choice but both were so evil there was no point in chosing either.

That's what I've been trying to figure out, how are the stormcloaks evil? I submit that maybe I'm just thick and missed an obvious piece of evidence, but no one seems to want to point it out to me. :/

 

[Darkmantle]

So anyway, back on topic.

why does everyone think the stormcloaks are racist, I seriously never got that vibe and am curious for how others reached that conclusion.

go to Windhelm... it becomes obvious if you spend more then 5 minutes there.

You mean like that nice drow lady who sells me things in the upper market? who tells me what a nice time she's had since she arrived? Man, such racists.

EDIT; bah, just noticed who it was, should not have replied, not taking the flame bait

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

There is only one faction that tries to end the world and kill everyone, and that's neither the Stormcloaks nor the Imperials...

 

[SajuukKhar]

That's what I've been trying to figure out, how are the stormcloaks evil? I submit that maybe I'm just thick and missed an obvious piece of evidence, but no one seems to want to point it out to me. :/

Lets see

Ulfric
-Forces all Dunmer to live in a rundown slum, and refuses to help them in any way
-Forces the Arogonians to live outside the city walls in a crappy building on the docks
-Will send troops to protect Nord caravans but outright refuses to send help should a non-nord caravan come under attack

Stormcloack guards use derogatory slurs against non-humans such as
-"Stay out of trouble, lizard.", when non-stormcloak guards say "Stay out of trouble, Argonian."
-"What do you want... cat?", when non0stormcloack guards will say "What is it, Khajiit?"
http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Guard#Reactions_to_Player.27s_Race

 

[Jynthor]

So a free Skyrim in the long run does not harm the Empire that much but only weakens them. So Skyrim should have it's indepence as it is right to claim it. However I had hoped the civil war part to be longer and give me more influence over the outcome, perhaps even claiming the throne myself or somesuch. Hope the DLC expands on the events of the Civil War.

Skyrim is home to the Nords, one of the empires best group of warriors. Skyrim leaving would be a massive blow to The empires armed forces. furthermoe Uflric is too petty and self-serving to help The empire when the time comes to attack The Thalmor again.

Also they wont make a DLC based on the civil war.

The dovahkiin became Talos at the end of the civil war no matter which side he chooses, Bethesda is just going to pull another dragon-break event and make both endings happen like they did with Daggerfall.

How will they pull the Dragon-break off? The more I think about it, the weirder it gets.
Let's say you sided with the Stormcloaks, Captain Bailey is dead, but, voila Dragon-Break and now Bailey lives again because he also won at the same time, so, I guess Bailey now has a clone, one of them dead. Will the same go for all soldiers who died during the civil war? Will all those soldiers magically pop back in the world? Who will be Jarl of (random city)Whiterun?
Yeah, it's probably best if they shelf this idea.

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

Nah the Empire wants to kick the Thalmor out, they're just biding time and building up forces and some compromise has to be made so the Thalmor don't own them, and outlawing the worship of Talos is that compromise.

The Stormcloaks are just stupid, fighting against the Empire their god created? That's ridiculous like if Christians just decided to nuke the entire planet if Christianity got banned.

I think the analogy you're looking for is christians bombing the vatican Dan brown style.

 

[SajuukKhar]

How will they pull the Dragon-break off? The more I think about it, the weirder it gets.
Let's say you sided with the Stormcloaks, Captain Bailey is dead, but, voila Dragon-Break and now Bailey lives again because he also won at the same time, so, I guess Bailey now has a clone, one of them dead. Will the same go for all soldiers who died during the civil war? Will all those soldiers magically pop back in the world? Who will be Jarl of (random city)Whiterun?
Yeah, it's probably best if they shelf this idea.

The same way they pulled of the Dragon-Break in daggerfall. Not tell you jack shit.

they will never make mention of who was Jarl of what around that time in Skyrim in future games.

All it will be is "shit happened and no one really remembers what exactly happened" like in all previous dragon-breaks.

 

[Hal10k]

That's what I've been trying to figure out, how are the stormcloaks evil? I submit that maybe I'm just thick and missed an obvious piece of evidence, but no one seems to want to point it out to me. :/

They aren't evil, they just have irreconcilable differences with the Empire, at least so long as Ulfric McThickaccent is in charge. The game goes out of its way to show that both sides are fighting for noble goals from their own point of view; remember how the patriotic anthem played for either side is literally the same song with some of the words swapped?

There's a strong case to be made that either side could easily pose a threat to the dominion if it were to be victorious, which is why the Thalmor did their part to instigate the war in the first place. It isn't important which side wins the war, so long as somebody does and the Thalmor don't go all system restore on Nirn's ass.

 

[SajuukKhar]

whats scary to think about is Pelinal Whitestreak, the divine crusader from knights of the nine, is a time traveler from a time were Talos doesn't exist.....


The Thalmor MAY actually win.

 

[Terminate421]

I have an evil kahjiit who is Stormcloaks yet as my Argonian I lean towards going to the Empire, mostly because they have a chance but I still hate their outfits (Seriously, SKIRTS?) though naturally, I would be nutruel in the matter.

Though I do have to admit, the empire is weak most aspects in Skyrim, it feels like its in shambles, I know they are gathering to fight back but it feels like they really have already died.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The Empire has risen and fallen 3 times already, but it will always come back

Lorkhan who is Sithis, who is Akatosh, who is Talos does not abandon his people.