It's been confirmed; Xbox one wil block used games.

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Imper1um

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Well, the fault in purchasing used games is that it needs to be a game worth the purchase at the new price. If you sell a game at $60, I better get a $60 experience. I've experienced that quite a few times, and I've been proud to buy the game at that point, latest purchase would be Skyrim. However, if you want me to purchase a game at YOUR price, your price better give me the experience that I paid for.

Want my money, Publishers? Lower the prices earlier for your game that I would never pay more than $15 for. This is ultimately 100% DRM versus Used games and Piracy...

Which, we all know that this won't stop it.
 

Cabisco

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WeepingAngels said:
Demon ID said:
WeepingAngels said:
Demon ID said:
WeepingAngels said:
Demon ID said:
I'm going to wait for Microsoft to comment on this first because we really seem to love our over the top conspiracy theories of late and I suspect this one is again not quite the truth, just a case of paranoia induced handbag warfare.

I expect it to be something more like:

If you can now install a game and not use a disc this means thats a huge market companies could loose as just one copy could be shared around a bunch of friends. To curb this and retain the cool new feature the discs will likely only be allowed to be installed to one console/account and if you friend wants this he has the option to buy the game there and then rather than go buy his own disc so he doesn't need a disc.

Yeah, I bet it's that. Then we can move on to thinking that those 300,000 servers are actually skynet.
You didn't address used games here at all.

Ok fine, I read the original post about making us pay for used games. Then I witnessed everyone going apeshit because it sounded like Microsoft just attempted to kill Gamestop etc. Then I suggested a logical explanation for what this 'fee' actually is regarding used games, not a blanket 'no used games' as everyone is assuming but rather a way to implement a new system whilst making sure it doesn't drastically dent game sales.

I made a point about the fee system which is in the OP, here is the quote from the OP 'The new xbox will require a fee for you to play pre-owned games'. I'm suggesting this fee is in regards to installing games without the disc.

I... I'm not sure how much more clear I can be about that, the used game market is massive and microsoft need retailers like gamestop etc to stock their games they are hardly going to murder that market for the lulz.

Understand?
It will work like current online passes work. I am not even sure where this line of thinking comes from:

I'm suggesting this fee is in regards to installing games without the disc.
This line of thinking comes from the article, that thing in the OP this discussion is based on:

It added: "Microsoft did say that if a disc was used with a second account, that owner would be given the option to pay a fee and install the game from the disc, which would then mean that the new account would also own the game and could play it without the disc."

Note the parts that mention 'option to pay a fee and install the game' and 'play it without the disc'.
To me that says that it's going to work exactly like the online pass system works now. The SECOND buyer will pay the fee, not the FIRST buyer. The first buyer would still have the game installed and may be able to play it so long as it remains installed and they may even be able to redownload it. After all, do you lose your online pass when you sell a current gen game? No.
Yes, did you think I meant the first buyer had to pay too? Have we just had a massive misunderstanding? :/
 

Talshere

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WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
 

WeepingAngels

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Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
It doesn't matter how quick the turn around is, it's about the game industry not being special. If Paramount can't cash in on used DVD sales, then neither should game companies.

Think about it, what if everything sold used followed those rules. Cars, appliances, furniture, etc...
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
The answer to that is for the publishers to cut their prices to be more in line with DVDs. There's a little thing called the right (yes, right) of first sale that they're trying to do away with. It basically says, once you've sold something, it's no longer yours. Don't bother with the copyright/licensing thing. That's all BS too, because the protection the publishers claim they need the license for is already covered by copyright; the purchase of a copy does not confer the right to make more copies. That's why it's called "copyright."

Captcha: make a bee-line: Yes, Captcha, I have a feeling consumers will be doing that, in the opposite direction from Microsoft's new product.
 

Talshere

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WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
It doesn't matter how quick the turn around is, it's about the game industry not being special. If Paramount can't cash in on used DVD sales, then neither should game companies.

Think about it, what if everything sold used followed those rules. Cars, appliances, furniture, etc...
Generally car manufactures continue to make money of their products because A) there is status in having a car new, which is never guna happen in gaming. B) Car manufactures continue to make money on parts long after the sale of the original vehicle. C) 2nd hand cars rarely retail for more than 50% of their original purchase price. They depreciate massively the moment they leave the show room, because of the aforementioned status thing.

If every time a game for the ONE got a disk scratched you had to pay the pub's $1 to fit it, while Im sure they would still like a slice of the $50 2nd hand retail its still a damned sight more than they see atm. I can not think of a single other industry or product where an item, bought, returned 2 days later can be sold for virtually the same price while retaining its "boxed new" status.
 

Talshere

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
The answer to that is for the publishers to cut their prices to be more in line with DVDs. There's a little thing called the right (yes, right) of first sale that they're trying to do away with. It basically says, once you've sold something, it's no longer yours. Don't bother with the copyright/licensing thing. That's all BS too, because the protection the publishers claim they need the license for is already covered by copyright; the purchase of a copy does not confer the right to make more copies. That's why it's called "copyright."

Captcha: make a bee-line: Yes, Captcha, I have a feeling consumers will be doing that, in the opposite direction from Microsoft's new product.
If your brining it more in like with DVD's then you need an 18 month period at release where the studio pub has virtually full control as the game can only be played in 3 hr stints at registered cyber cafes for $10 a pop.

This continuing analogy with the film industry have to stop. Yes, pubs are wankers just like the studios but the nature of the industries are fundamentally different.

Admittedly we might be able to do away with this 45 min token campaign mode and get some serious story driven content back into our AAA titles.
 

WeepingAngels

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Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
It doesn't matter how quick the turn around is, it's about the game industry not being special. If Paramount can't cash in on used DVD sales, then neither should game companies.

Think about it, what if everything sold used followed those rules. Cars, appliances, furniture, etc...
Generally car manufactures continue to make money of their products because A) there is status in having a car new, which is never guna happen in gaming. B) Car manufactures continue to make money on parts long after the sale of the original vehicle. C) 2nd hand cars rarely retail for more than 50% of their original purchase price. They depreciate massively the moment they leave the show room, because of the aforementioned status thing.

If every time a game for the ONE got a disk scratched you had to pay the pub's $1 to fit it, while Im sure they would still like a slice of the $50 2nd hand retail its still a damned sight more than they see atm. I can not think of a single other industry or product where an item, bought, returned 2 days later can be sold for virtually the same price while retaining its "boxed new" status.
None of this matters. This is really quite simple. You sell a product and you no longer own it and therefore don't get anything if the new owner sells it.

Having a copyright doesn't mean you get resell money either, it just means that you have the legal right to make copies. I'll say it again, the game industry is not special.

Let me just add that next week a new Doctor Who Blu Ray comes out and I have it pre-ordered, Season 7 Disk 2. There is nothing stopping me from watching all the episodes on release day and then selling it that same day. The BBC wouldn't hold their hand out asking for some of the resell money and neither should game companies. However, if game companies were to get a cut of the resell money, it wouldn't be long before everyone else wanted to the do the same and the First Sale Doctrine would become meaningless.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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Talshere said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
The answer to that is for the publishers to cut their prices to be more in line with DVDs. There's a little thing called the right (yes, right) of first sale that they're trying to do away with. It basically says, once you've sold something, it's no longer yours. Don't bother with the copyright/licensing thing. That's all BS too, because the protection the publishers claim they need the license for is already covered by copyright; the purchase of a copy does not confer the right to make more copies. That's why it's called "copyright."

Captcha: make a bee-line: Yes, Captcha, I have a feeling consumers will be doing that, in the opposite direction from Microsoft's new product.
If your brining it more in like with DVD's then you need an 18 month period at release where the studio pub has virtually full control as the game can only be played in 3 hr stints at registered cyber cafes for $10 a pop.

This continuing analogy with the film industry have to stop. Yes, pubs are wankers just like the studios but the nature of the industries are fundamentally different.

Admittedly we might be able to do away with this 45 min token campaign mode and get some serious story driven content back into our AAA titles.
Never heard of direct to DVD films? Or major movies that only made a profit after the home video release? The analogy is actually pretty damn near perfect, because it's an entertainment product made in a similar way (although games cost less to make than Hollywood movies, sensationalist "news" stories to the contrary), sold in a similar way, and consumed in a similar way. The theatrical release is a red herring -- the point is that the studios are pricing their customers out of the market by charging $60 a pop. There's something like 100 million consoles in the US alone, yet 6 million copies sold /worldwide/ is just about unheard of. Because consumers can't afford it, unlike the way they can films.
 

Talshere

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Never heard of direct to DVD films? Or major movies that only made a profit after the home video release? The analogy is actually pretty damn near perfect, because it's an entertainment product made in a similar way (although games cost less to make than Hollywood movies, sensationalist "news" stories to the contrary), sold in a similar way, and consumed in a similar way. The theatrical release is a red herring -- the point is that the studios are pricing their customers out of the market by charging $60 a pop. There's something like 100 million consoles in the US alone, yet 6 million copies sold /worldwide/ is just about unheard of. Because consumers can't afford it, unlike the way they can films.
Studios generally take a loss on direct to DVD and they do it when they realise theyve pumped money into something thats crap. The major difference being the film industry can soak a few terrible films, not least because its very rare to have a big budget release flop like that. It tends to be the moderate or cheap ones like 3 stooges.

While you may think they are analogous due to the similar nature the way we consume them is fundamentally different. It is incredibly rare once a sequel is released in the games industry to sell any of the previous title unless its a landmark game. While the release of a sequel film can actually BOOST the sales of a previous film. When LOTR:ROTK came out at my cinema, they spent the whole month prior screening TFOTR and TTT.

Similarly, we rarely go back and revisit games series of the past unless again its an icon, even if its up in the bargin bin for $2 due to the lack of availability to play it and the depreciation of the visuals. It takes a truly masterful game to overcome even 5 years of graphical ageing. Yet if you see an old film in a bargain big we dont really think anything of picking it up. If you saw Grease or Diehard, maybe The Last Starfighter, or just some random film that you liked the box art of, or has an actor you recognise, if you were in the mood youd pick it up for a chill viewing with some popcorn and a quietly suffering significant other.

This NEVER happens with games. We consume them in very different ways.

That being said I DO agree with you that console games are WAY over priced. Here in the UK you can expect to pay £45 ($68.27), while PC games rarely set you back more than £35 ($53.10) and usually can be had new for £30 ($45.51). It is criminal but half of that is the 1st parties fault for licencing costs. Small studios dont pay paramount to make a big budget film, paramount backs the studio for a share. Yet this is effectively the relationship between the 1st party and publishers, especially if you want your release to be cross platform.

The whole industry is broken and it starts with the 1st parties inability to make money on their consoles through sales.
 

mrhappy1489

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Bernzz said:
I just wanna point out that this happened:


And as for blocking used games? And really, their entire reveal? Sony's won this generation, hands fucking down.
You do realise that that is a fucking minuscule drop in microsoft shares don't you, though I'll admit the sony jump is very impressive. I've already decided to go PC, I'm just waiting for the money so this doesn't really affect me at all.
 

NoeL

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WeepingAngels said:
Let me break it down like this:

Person A buys game new. Installs it and has it added to his Live account (just like Steam).
Person A sells game to Gamestop.
Person B buys used game
Person B has to buy a pass to play the game and then has it added to his Live account.

On and on and on.... It's a system wide online pass system. Whether person A can continue to play the game is anyone's guess. Maybe the game will be deactivated on their account the next time they go online.
Given the process registers the buyer as the new owner of the game I wouldn't be surprised at all if the previous owner loses access to it. Surely the disc would have a traceable serial number or something.

Anyway, this article has a little more info:
http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825

If you take a game you own to a friend's place you can play the game on your XBL account as normal, but if your friend wants to log in with their account they have to pay - wait for it - full retail price! Even if you're sitting their with the physical disc.

Microsoft say they have an as-yet-unannounced system in place for trading/selling games, so if you want to lend the game to a friend you'll probably have to log in and trade the "right" to play the game to them. Whether or not this will cost you is anyone's guess, but if they charge for it it'll be fucking disgusting.

Captcha: path less taken. And with good reason!
 

Innegativeion

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Feb 18, 2011
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Dexter111 said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As I said in the Live Reveal thread, just looks like this three horse race got knocked down to two.
How cute, you still think that Nintendo remains in the race. <3 xD

Sony will get all the good non-nintendo-1st-party exclusives, and make lots of money,


Nintendo will finally release all their 1st party titles,


and everyone will be SO FUCKING SHOCKED that nintendo continues to make lots of money. Like people who are shocked when a jack comes out of a jack-in-the-box.
 

Evil Smurf

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Innegativeion said:
Dexter111 said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As I said in the Live Reveal thread, just looks like this three horse race got knocked down to two.
How cute, you still think that Nintendo remains in the race. <3 xD

Sony will get all the good non-nintendo-1st-party exclusives, and make lots of money,


Nintendo will finally release all their 1st party titles,


and everyone will be SO FUCKING SHOCKED that nintendo continues to make lots of money. Like people who are shocked when a jack comes out of a jack-in-the-box.
I think the WiiU is the best new console. But I'll not buy on when I only use my laptop.
 

bug_of_war

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As I said in the Live Reveal thread, just looks like this three horse race got knocked down to two.
While I'm normally one for waiting till the end of something's lifecycle before stating it's success or failure, it looks as though the Playstation 4 has this hands down. The Wii U hasn't done nearly as well as the Wii and whilst you can't believe the loudest people are the majority I do feel as though PS4 just has the edge over the Xbox One. It'll be interesting to see the actual figures after PS4 and Xbone are released for a year or so.
 

Requia

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Shameless said:
According to This [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/] article.

The new xbox will require a fee for you to play pre-owned games...

Oh fuck off Microsoft !
Microsoft has said this is false.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
EA dropped their Online Pass system, and now it turns out that the new Xbox is going to charge for used games as standard.

I fucking knew something like this was in the works.
EA never dropped the Online Passes. They just renamed it. Instead of "Online Pass", it was "Deluxe Edition" or whatever bullshit they use. It's mentioned in one of the Jimquisitions about Dead Space 3.

They're still selling you a steaming pile of bullshit, they're just calling it pudding.