IW ruin MW2 online gameplay before it even releases. Updated.

[Pingieking]

*Snip*

You've brought up a lot of points that are quite good and go a long way into defeating my positions; I'll answer them one by one and try to keep it short. Each number corresponds to each counter point you provided to my quotes.

1) I say "we", because I have seen a lot of people talk about how the removal of the system breaks their gaming experience. But yes, this is the first time I've posted here.
2) The problem with that is that we won't get any good new features that IW may have included in MW2. Also, some problems of MW may be stuck in the executable portions of the game and are not fixable through modding.
3) The part we like is having private games. A closed community of friends who play together. We're not trying to be elitist here, just want to play a private game with some friendly faces without random strangers dropping in. IW doesn't have to provide us with a server for that, they could simply let us connect our private server to their system.
4) It seems to be the case, but that's not even the point. It's all well and good if you guys are happy with it, the problem is that we are not happy with it. What you guys like has very little to do with what we want, and what we want has very little affect on what you guys like. It's not like I'm asking IW to scrap the matchmaking system, I'm just asking them not to take away private servers.
5) I don't object to IW making them king of their domain. They have full control of what they want to do, and I can't force them to do anything. The petition is only a notice to IW, letting them know that I'm not willing to purchase their product as is. They can ignore me all they want, but I think as a customer it is good manners to let the producers know what they would have to do to get my money.
6) Sadly, EA does do that. Though I think Activision is screwing us much more than EA is.
7) I'll concede that the hyperbole was not constructive. However, it can be argued that the matchmaking system is similar to a dedicated server system infected with the stupid virus. The point I was trying to make (though it didn't come off very well) was that the PC version of the game got downgraded to match the lowest common denominator. Features that are commonplace in PC FPS games are being removed for no apparent reason, and we are not happy with that decision.

 

[Caliostro]

Found an interesting article in support of dedicated servers from the PCG website, worth a read.

Spoiler

A dedicated server is a PC usually held within a bank of computers belonging to a private company or the game's own publisher. Dedicated server hosts have been part of PC gaming for decades; I think you can attribute some of the rise of multiplayer games like Counter-Strike and Call of Duty directly to their work.

Why?

1) Dedicated server hosts are judged by their reliability. If a server crashes, or an internet connection goes down, the gamers paying to host the game will complain, and they'll start to move elsewhere. This economic motivation forces server hosts to constantly improve their hardware, their internet connection, and their management tools. Compare that to the peer-to-peer networking that Infinity Ward developers are proposing, where the quality of the game will be entirely dependant on the gamer's own home web connection.

2) Dedicated servers are fair. Want to know why that player always seems to get the drop on you when you're playing Call of Duty on Xbox 360? It might be because he's the host of the game. In combat, data has to be bounced from his console, to yours, and back again, for you to impact on the game. Meanwhile, he doesn't have to wait on the round trip - he can fire as soon as he's ready. Hosts always have an advantage in peer-to-peer networked games.

3) Dedicated servers are adaptable. We don't know the details of what InfinityWard.net will offer, but there's little chance that the tickbox customisation options usually available to players in peer-to-peer matchmaking setups can match the level of control dedicated servers offer. That can include, but not be limited to: competitive players who run their own specific rulesets, to the spectator mode mods, to machinima friendly sets, to the expanded player counts, to the custom maps. That evolution of content is key to extending a PC game's lifespan, and improving that game. Enabling the community to host the mods and maps they choose is a good thing. Entire game development businesses have been built from gamers hosting dedicated servers for popular, low key games. Guys like Splash Damage (Enemy Territory, Brink), Tripwire Interactive (Red Orchestra, Killing Floor) simply wouldn't be around were it not for gamers putting up their own cash to pay for dedicated servers.

4) Dedicated servers create community. Don't think of them as a piece of hardware. Think of them as a place. PC Gamer hosts servers for Team Fortress 2, Killing Floor, and yes, Modern Warfare. We have plenty of regulars who are looking forward to playing Modern Warfare 2 together. If we had dedicated server code, we would definitely host our own place - it's good for our readers, and it's good to create magazine loyalty. Every month, we'll join the servers to play with them. We don't have to swap friends contacts, or pray that our skill levels will broadly match. We just double click the server, and we're playing together. PC Gamer isn't alone - communities worldwide love hosting servers for their members. Peer-to-peer matchmaking stops that happening. Now, that specific group of fans simply can't play together. Even worse, without dedicated servers we can't enforce our 'don't be a dick' policy. We can't ban racist or homophobic players, nor can we appoint our own moderators to look after our community when we're not online.

This is good stuff. It's basically what we've all been saying, but put into a single post.

 

[Robert632]

What, the, shit?!
Pay for DLC on Steam? Are you fucking kidding me? Matchmaking instead of server browser, on STEAM/PC? Someone clearly wasn't thinking. While I don't really know much, I can't think of a logical reason as to why one would do this? It can't really cause a bigger profit or such. No dedicated servers?

AH fuck this, if I wanted a dumbed down experience I'd be playing it on the console.
Next thing you know the PC will have auto aim.

paying for dlc is a smart bisness(i think i spelt that one wrong.) move. they know millions of people will buy this game, so they just put a price on everything, and bam! they make more money.

 

[0p3rati0n]

Damn, I feel kinda sorry for you PC players. I mean, what they are taking away are some of the advantages of PC online gaming, right?

for once I agree with you. Just about everything about CoD online on a PC was free. Unless you own a server. But that's a different thing. The only thing you worry about are unfair glitchers. Just about everything is managed by the clans admins. But the only PC gaming I plan on doing is getting CoD2 and CoD4 for my new mac when I get it. So I'm not worried.

 

[Jandau]

Doesn't ruin the multiplayer for me. GO XBOX!

It doesn't ruin it for you because you've had it ruined all along and actually like to get screwed over by this point. Yeah, go xbox indeed...

 

[Cilliandrew]

You've been bent over and screwed for so long you cant even feel it.

I fully agree with this.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

This really sucks for you PC guys, now you're going to have the same infuriating host advantage, cheating and lag problems that we consolers have to put up with.

All so they can make more money from DLC.

What a bunch of assholes.

Fuck you, Infinity Ward!

 

[Lowbreed]

What, the, shit?!

paying for dlc is a smart business move. they know millions of people will buy this game, so they just put a price on everything, and bam! they make more money.

Of course it's a smart move business wise, but it's also a **** move. DLC on PC has been free mostly (oblivion aside, but really who bought that damn horse or whatever there was).
Next thing you know we'll be paying for TF2 class updates.

 

[No_Remainders]

I know you people who never were able to afford, or "knowledgeable" enough to maintain, a gaming PC have no idea what we mean when we say this is actually terrible, but you guys have been getting the second rate stuff all along.

See, I'm going to play TF2 in a little while, and when I do so I'm going to log on and look between one of my favorite servers, with settings I like (or closest available), and play with the people I want. These were servers I've visited before, enjoyed the experience, and choose to stay on. Tomorrow, a server of a mapping community I'm part of will be running a "gameday" event, where we get to test and give feedback to maps still under construction. We upload and update these maps whenever, and play them whenever. If you act like a complete dickhole in those servers, you will be banned, because we think you're an idiot. Likewise, you'll think we're idiots and you'll go to a server you like (full of people we'll most likely consider idiots and that, which, most likely, will be reciprocal) and enjoy playing with them, and most likely ban people like us thinking we're idiots.

It's a perfect system. Everyone's happy. Everyone gets their own place, and if they don't, they can make it!

This is actually one of the reasons I play L4D a lot less than TF2.

What IW is doing here really is just dumbing it down, not as a side option, but attempting to grab us by the balls, trying to retain full control over the product they sold us.

If you want an analogy, imagine I buy a plot of land. I get a permit to build a house. Then as I go to build a house there, the guys that sold me the land go "Nono. You can't build a house there!" "But it's my land, and I got a permit..." "Well, that means we can build our house there and let you live in it!".

Sounds bad doesn't it?

Sounds like a load of elitist bullshit to me. And I HAVE a gaming PC, thanks for generalising

Obviously you haven't noticed that all HARDCORE PC gamers that have full specs and all that are elitist cunts who think console players are below them. Frankly, having both a gaming PC and a 360, I prefer the 360 in every way except the slight difference in graphics on my 1080p 30 inch TV.

And before anyone tries to say it, I don't use auto-aim on any FPS on the 360. I hate the bugger because it's an irritating prick.

 

[philzibit]

Doesn't ruin the multiplayer for me. GO XBOX!

It doesn't ruin it for you because you've had it ruined all along and actually like to get screwed over by this point. Yeah, go xbox indeed...

care to explain why I've had it ruined all along?

 

[Bat Vader]

My argument is that the mp looks simply amazing. Who cares about the details when ITS FUN?

This is a console gamer. It is full of failure to understand how the modding, dedicated server and competitive gaming communities function and how this affects them.

This is a PC Elitist. Comparable to a Console Fanboy in terms of judging before thinking insulting anyone who thinks rationally.

PC Elitists and Console Fanboys are both full of fails. They spurn the other side of gaming without ever giving it a chance.

 

[radarbsm]

DLC will be a charged item for PC-Alright I can deal with this only if the xbox360 an ps3 have to pay too. IF not FU.

No dedicated servers-Stupid and should be fired for this or worse.

Matchmaking system used to play with similarly ranked players

VAC instead of PB-Good punkbuster has been a ass to me

Semi-capable password servers-HAHAHa

MW2 mods would not be possible-They should all be fired for this

Full integration into Steam-Can deal with this

 

[Ishnuvalok]

My argument is that the mp looks simply amazing. Who cares about the details when ITS FUN?

This is a console gamer. It is full of failure to understand how the modding, dedicated server and competitive gaming communities function and how this affects them.

This is a PC Elitist. Comparable to a Console Fanboy in terms of judging before thinking insulting anyone who thinks rationally.

PC Elitists and Console Fanboys are both full of fails. They spurn the other side of gaming without ever giving it a chance.

The irony here is that I play on consoles as well. I was mostly referring to Apocalypse Tank's moronic post, and how it showed that many (The one's I've spoken to and seen on forums) console gamers don't get why the PC community are pissed off. Basically "If it's not important to me, it's not important to anyone" attitude of the guy is what bothers me.

 

[Marowit]

Was going to buy this on PC but wont if this is true. Games like TF2 work through steam use VAC etc. but still allow dedicated and custom servers.

This is a massive dump on PC gaming, trying to make online gaming as crap as on consoles is not cool.

Definitely true, but what's really at work here is DLC. They are just trying to make sure that PC gamers don't make their own maps and avoid paying for content. They can say it's to stream line new user experience, but lets face it, it's always been a trial by fire experience on PC FPS-multiplayer...and people continued to play...

I know I'm skipping MW2 now, and probably going to pick up Borderlands (45 bucks instead of 60), and probably L4D2 (probably again through steam for probably ~20% cheaper than MW2 again).

 

[Caliostro]

I know I'm skipping MW2 now, and probably going to pick up Borderlands (45 bucks instead of 60), and probably L4D2 (probably again through steam for probably ~20% cheaper than MW2 again).

I for one am I bit glad this happened after all. After seeing the latest L4D2 trailer, I'm not feeling the slightest bit guilty in "relocating" my funds from MWII to L4D2.

 

[Jandau]

Doesn't ruin the multiplayer for me. GO XBOX!

It doesn't ruin it for you because you've had it ruined all along and actually like to get screwed over by this point. Yeah, go xbox indeed...

care to explain why I've had it ruined all along?

Gladly.

The thing PC users are complaining about (Dedicated server support) is something XBOX users never had in the first place. You were screwed over to begin with under the excuse of simplicity, while there was no technical reason not to allow XBOX users with basic computer skills to set up their own dedicated servers to which other players could connect. This announcement doesn't affect you because the screwover involved happened to you the moment you bought the XBOX. Istead of saying "This doesn't affect me!" you should be asking "Why aren't they adding better and more advanced features to my platform instead of taking them away from another platform?"

And that's before we touch on the subjects such as XBOX users having to pay for DLC that's free on the PC, having to pay for basic access to multiplayer and other such lovely "features". However, you've been screwed over all along so you consider that a norm and are happy about it instead of demanding better service. That's the worst part of this whole incident...

 

[Rathy]

This has basically completely turned me away from MW2. I'm fine with them wanting to charge for DLC on PCs, thats not an issue. Neither is the concept of the introduction of IWnet. What gets me is they also make an effort to not support dedicated servers at all, and just force people to play on their own, under all of their own rules, something I play PC games to not have to deal with.

To me, it basically says we only give this much support to XBox, so why not take away all the benefits of PC so that they have the exact same game, and not give a reason to own a specific version. I wouldn't care so much if they weren't so smug about wanting to set game standards either.

 

[philzibit]

Doesn't ruin the multiplayer for me. GO XBOX!

It doesn't ruin it for you because you've had it ruined all along and actually like to get screwed over by this point. Yeah, go xbox indeed...

care to explain why I've had it ruined all along?

Gladly.

The thing PC users are complaining about (Dedicated server support) is something XBOX users never had in the first place. You were screwed over to begin with under the excuse of simplicity, while there was no technical reason not to allow XBOX users with basic computer skills to set up their own dedicated servers to which other players could connect. This announcement doesn't affect you because the screwover involved happened to you the moment you bought the XBOX. Istead of saying "This doesn't affect me!" you should be asking "Why aren't they adding better and more advanced features to my platform instead of taking them away from another platform?"

And that's before we touch on the subjects such as XBOX users having to pay for DLC that's free on the PC, having to pay for basic access to multiplayer and other such lovely "features". However, you've been screwed over all along so you consider that a norm and are happy about it instead of demanding better service. That's the worst part of this whole incident...

First part of your statement is take it or leave it for me.
Second part, you should have to pay for DLC. Someone has to make it, so someone should get paid for it.