Jimquisition: A Game By Any Other Name

Recommended Videos

Ray Pollack

New member
Jul 16, 2012
1
0
0
Hey Jim, while I would agree with you on most of the things you have said in your videos, your comments on the new DMC are a tad misguided (completely missing the point).

While yes even I have said or thought that the game would be a decent action game if it weren't called DMC and had a differently designed character that better fit the universe they had made for the game, there is in fact something in a name when it comes to any form of entertainment.

There is an expectation people will have from an established and fairly well known franchise such as Devil May Cry, and based on Ninja Theory's track record, I have realized they talk a big talk but really at the end of the day they can only imitate other games and pretend they have compelling stories to them.

In regards to the new DMC. Ninja Theory has had a PR nightmare, especially when Tameem Antonaides, someone who bears a striking resemblance to even the earliest iterations of Dante's new design. At this point, in recent conferences I heard them adding elements from not only past DMC games, but also other action games such as Bayonetta, a variant of your dodge roll can apparently do some sort of time altering effect on an enemy similar to Bayonetta's. To me it seems more like a desperate bid saying "oh please like our game! Look we have jump cancelling!"

Yes, I do see you have been trying to implement these things in your game, and from the videos in the past I have to ask why? It looks like you are doing this because the fans of the series wants those things, but the way you have set up your combat it might be harmful to the game. The jumps are floatier than in past games, the attacks don't look as smooth, and have a more meatier impact akin to God of War style games. You know, like the second game you did: Heavenly Sword.

Speaking of which, the whole concept of switching between three modes for your character was done in that game too, and when I hear your sequel gets canned and then find essentially those same mechanics in the new game you're making, I begin to suspect many a foul things from the production.

For the longest time I have considered this game to be a Heavenly Sword 2 reskin at it's core, and even now it still shows. When I hear the DMC name, I do have an essential expectation of quality and right now my expectations for Ninja Theory's take on the game are rather low. It looks like the New Dante is just using Nero's moveset with Heavenly Sword's control scheme, and to me it feels a little lazy.

I'd rather it be a new IP than one for DMC, nothing wrong would come of that anyways, it would stand out in a much more positive light for one thing instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater of a character that was iconic to many people.

In regards to the "seriousness of Dante", well he isn't that serious to begin with, and that's the joke, he was more of a hammy rogue type to me, and this new one just comes off as trying to be edgy, what with recent videos having him exchanging f-bombs with a boss. Not the final boss, but just a boss.

I felt that Ninja Theory came a little close in capturing the feeling his predecesor had but this new Dante just doesn't really cut it for me.

Will this stop me from trying the demo at least? No. But I don't have good expectations of this.
 

Valdus

New member
Apr 7, 2011
343
0
0
Yay Jim, way to miss the point. People hate these "spin-offs" that look nothing like the originals for a good reason. It's just simple exploitation.

If a game is called something like Devil May Cry it's only natural to expect it might actually have something to do with the other Devil May Cry games. If the game feels so alien to the point that you would consider it a different name then it's really false advertising, since some people will get the game believing it to be something it's not. The developers don't want people to judge the game by it's own merit, they want people to fork out over their money on a frickin' whim. If they actually cared about the game standing out on it's own they would give it it's own name, not another game's name with a slight tweek.

It's common sense dammit. Don't want people to associate your product with something else? DON'T NAME IT AFTER IT. If you do be excepted for people to compare your product to whatever it's named after.
 

WarpZone

New member
Mar 9, 2008
423
0
0
What's that? You say new games don't have to be anything like old games, as long as they're "good?"

Say! How was E3 this year, Jim?
 

CardinalPiggles

New member
Jun 24, 2010
3,226
0
0
I would have thought Jim would know (and hate) the fact that publishers use the name for an existing franchise just to get people interested, because new IPs are a bit of a gamble.

I agree that people go a bit overboard with the review bombs and such though, especially before they've even tried it.
 

neoontime

I forgot what this was before...
Jul 10, 2009
3,784
0
0
The only reason for argument I see is that a game may be developed differently but only keep the name to gather previous fans. From that, people may think its cheap, but really, if you back away from fanboyism, and look at the game, you'll be able to decide if the game is good for what it is. Summed up I guess.
 

Meight08

*Insert Funny Title*
Feb 16, 2011
817
0
0
Im gonna drop this in No mutants allowed so wish me luck,
.......................................................................................................................................................No praying for me to survive would be better
 

Khazoth

New member
Sep 4, 2008
1,229
0
0
rolfwesselius said:
Im gonna drop this in No mutants allowed so wish me luck,
No praying for me to survive would be better

No! Don't do it man! You have your whole life ahead of you! THEY WILL EAT YOU ALIVE!
 

cannedfury

New member
Aug 22, 2009
10
0
0
Long time fan of both Jim and Silent Hill, here to mostly disagree.

I think Book of Memories is getting this knee-jerk reaction because anything that strays from the mood established by previous Silent Hills hasn't fared well in the series. And in a series best known for horror, mood means a lot. Everything in this title looks to dismantle that atmosphere, from the cast of hip and colorful teens, to co-op instead of isolation, to HUD numbers breaking immersion. This actually does strip the series' identity down to "Those games where you fight Pyramid Head," which is a consistency fans loathe.

BoM could turn out to be loads of fun, given the series has plenty to improve on gameplay and overall it's a pretty novel concept. But on paper it does come off as a collection of bad Silent Hill decisions that hasn't learned from its predecessors. Early SH comics actually featured a goth with a magic book and her buddies power fantasying through Silent Hill in a Mary Sue shitfest (it's good for laughs). I know it's just a surface resemblance, but given they brought back the terrible Diablo boss, it echoes the bad parts of the franchise as a whole.

Oddly I am looking forward to that Lost Planet spin-off where everything's pastel, cell-shaded anime style with comic panels and sound effects flying around a group of generic cartoon teens. It should be the worst direction ever, but using a different title does give it room to experiment with its own set of terrible cliches. Or it could just be Capcom being impossible to take seriously.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
3,847
0
0
Right on, especially with Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts. It's a great game. Yes whiners, I get it, you wanted more platforming. But this game never promised to be platforming. So either play it or don't play it, I don't care, but stop hating on it because it's not what you want. What it is, it did very well and is a very fun game.

LazyAza said:
Somehow I think JonTron would disagree with Jim's example of Banjo Kazooie Nuts n Bolts lol.
JonTron's a whiny ***** who spends an entire video complaining that Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts sucks because it's not Banjo Threeie. Well guess what JonTron, Nuts and Bolts isn't trying to be Banjo Threeie, that's why it's called Nuts and Bolts instead of Threeie. So stop fucking whining and enjoy a great game.

MonkeyPunch said:
I pretty much agree.
I LOVED Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light. A departure from "normal" series but it was a great little spin-off title. One which I enjoyed a lot more than the more recent Tomb Raider games. It felt like a Tomb Raider without being one in terms of perspective and in the way you play it. It kept all the little nuances that make a game feel like a Tomb Raider but in a whole new package.
Yeah, that was kind of the opposite of the examples in this video, wasn't it? They took "Tomb Raider" out of the name so people didn't automatically assume it sucks like almost all the other Tomb Raider games. But at first, I still said "Nah, it's still Tomb Raider even though they didn't put that in the title, so it probably sucks." Then it was on sale on Steam so I got it just for the hell of it and HOLY HELL THIS GAME IS AWESOME!

rolfwesselius said:
Im gonna drop this in No mutants allowed so wish me luck,
.......................................................................................................................................................No praying for me to survive would be better
After they eat you alive, can I have your skateboard?
 

MDSnowman

New member
Apr 8, 2004
373
0
0
In the case of the Silent Hill games.... the name has been abused so badly already that trying something new with it won't tarnish it anymore. If we get a good game out of it then I don't see it hurting anyone. Give the game a chance and if it bombs, it does so on its own merits.

DMC is a little fuzzier because the last game did pretty well all things considered (I wasn't touching it with a ten foot pole, but then the game series had already burned most of its bridges for me ages ago). So a hard reboot, on a proper console (and not a handheld) is much more likely to rub people the wrong way.
 

Lord Beautiful

New member
Aug 13, 2008
5,940
0
0
Ray Pollack said:
*huge snip*
I hope you do more posts like this in the future. It means I have to type less.

Our biggest problem with DmC isn't that Dante, hell, every character and story element presented so far looks like shit. That doesn't help, but that's not the main reason.

It's that it's cutting a pretty huge branch from a tree without many branches to begin with.

It has yet to be called a spin-off. It has yet to be said that the original series will continue. It has only been called a reboot. With this in mind, along with Capcom's seemingly endless efforts to make as many poor decisions as possible, we can only assume one thing.

The original series is dead. This is the new direction.

If it were most any other series of spectacle fighters, this probably wouldn't ruffle as many feathers, but because this is Devil May Cry, it pisses fans off. This is because:

1) The original series wasn't over. There were still many loose ends, and the series still had loads of life left in it. The only reason the original series has been accused of growing stale is because Capcom half-assed Devil May Cry 4 so hard, not because the gameplay was getting tiresome.

2) This isn't your average series of spectacle fighters. This isn't like God of War, or Lords of Shadow, or Heavenly Sword, etc. This is a series known for its depth, precision, and difficulty. Hell, it fucking invented the high-complexity spectacle fighter.

Even Devil May Cry 4, half-assed though it was, still stomps the shit out of every other game this generation in its genre in terms of depth, speed, and precision. Except Bayonetta. Ninja Gaiden 2 would count if its camera wasn't so goddamn horrible.

By virtue of being so high quality, not many developers release games of its calibre. At this point, we got Platinum Games and, well, Platinum Games.

I haven't sat down and played it, but considering the framerate and the developer, I don't even need to to say without a doubt DmC will not be as precise and quick and previous DMC titles. It will not live up to the pedigree of DMC's 3 or 4. Maybe not even 1. Just seeing the demo footage and tech details makes that blatantly obvious. I'm sure it's fun, but it's not Devil May Cry, and that's why we're pissed.

It looks up to par with God of War. Trouble is, God of War is nowhere close up to par with Devil May Cry, and there are way more games with God of War-level depth than there are at the level of Devil May Cry.

Imagine if a new Street Fighter was released, one that played like Mortal Kombat, and all signs pointed to this being the new direction of the series. And for good measure, let's make the cast look like they've done shitloads of crack, coke, meth, heroin, or some combination thereof. Just for giggles. And they act all pissy and say "fuck" a lot.

Mortal Kombat's fun and all, but it isn't Street Fighter. I play Street Fighter for Street Fighter, not for Mortal Kombat Lite. So don't sell me Mortal Kombat Lite and expect me to love it because you tell me it's Street Fighter.
 

Dfskelleton

New member
Apr 6, 2010
2,851
0
0
The only game I've actually judged by it's name is Metal Gear Solid Rising Revengeance.
Not because it's Metal Gear Solid and it's not exactly the same as the others, it's just a really stupid title.
I guess that's more of judging it's title rather than juding it by it's title.

Also, while I'm not too fond on the idea of cosplaying, I would like to go to Jim's booth dressed up as God and say "You're welcome."
 

JohnnyDelRay

New member
Jul 29, 2010
1,322
0
0
I'm gonna have to say that I disagree with you here Jim, for the first time in months. I think the name *IS* important, people buy games and sequels because of what they've grown to love and gotten used to. If publishers want to produce the same thing because people like it, then that's their prerogative. If you are going to take a franchise in a completely different direction, for god's sake, why do they have to lean on the success of other games then? Just give it a totally different freaking name! Open the door for more creativity! Don't just milk the success of previous titles. For example: imagine Red Dead Redemption being called GTA 5: Western Vices or some shit. That would just be ridiculous. But they took it in a completely different direction, making a solid, awesome game that stood on its own.

Having said that, I still do judge games on their own merits, to be fair. I don't like the direction Resident Evil is taking, I wish there was more survival horror around, but I still think RE5 is a fantastic game. And I'll be buying RE6 without hesitation (haven't played and won't comment on Raccoon City). The new Dante just looks crap though, regardless of what people say. And I still wished Fallout 3 wasn't and FPS, but that's still an absolute cracker despite the bugs. I just think it'd be easier sometimes, especially on fan backlash, to just start a new franchise once in a decade, y'know?
 

TAdamson

New member
Jun 20, 2012
284
0
0
Gonna pull you up on Fallout 3 there Jimbo because this is somewhere where I repeatedly disagree with you.

Though I disagree with the No Mutant's Allowed version of events that requires all people to hate Fallout3 just because, there are two BIG reasons to be disappointed with Fallout 3.

1) Isometric RPGs looked like they were never going to be made again and there are plenty of people, such as myself, who miss them. It wasn't that Fallout 3 weren't going to be exactly like it's predecessors but dropping that style in favour of what initially looked like another generic FPS was a bit of a kick in the nuts.

Look at the similar outrage levelled at the FPS XCom, it looked like was just going to make Bioshock with Xcom slapped over the top, this would be a good game perhaps, but it's not the Xcom we want after 15 years of no Xcom. Look at the bland nothing that resulted from EA's pasting of Syndicate's artifice over the top of a dull shooter.

2) Fallout3's story is retarded. There isn't a single quest or world element in that game that makes any sense.

And the linear railroading of many of the quests completely jettisoned Fallout and Fallout 2's approach of having multiple endings for each quest. These had real choices that actually made sense instead of the usual Fable/Bioshock/Bethesda "pat the puppy"/"kick the puppy" options.

This is something that returned somewhat when Obsidian did New Vegas but for a while it looked like the Fallout Universe I knew and loved was dead in spirit as well as delivery.

That said I think that it's generally agreed that F3 is a good game. It's just a terrible Fallout game. And the sad thing is that New Vegas is a great Fallout Game, just bugged to shit so nobody actually liked it.

Now all the kiddies want Fallout games with dumb Bethesda stories that make no sense. (Seriously Bethesda: I love your worlds but your in game narratives are at best dull and at worst mentally disabled.)
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
I get what jim is saying but

buuuut

I cannot forgive Banjo kazooie nuts and bolts
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
mjc0961 said:
]JonTron's a whiny ***** who spends an entire video complaining that Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts sucks because it's not Banjo Threeie. Well guess what JonTron, Nuts and Bolts isn't trying to be Banjo Threeie, that's why it's called Nuts and Bolts instead of Threeie. So stop fucking whining and enjoy a great game.

?
he's just a guy doing a video for entertianment purposes...no need to be agressive
 

awdrifter

New member
Apr 1, 2011
125
0
0
I don't like agree with Jim on this issue. Especially on DMC. The main character in that game is no longer Dante, the game is developed by a different developer, it's DMC in name only. While a name doesn't directly make a game worse (or better), players (especially fans of the series) will play the game with certain expectations, if you change those key elements of a series, it will reduce the enjoyment of the players. I'm a big Gran Turismo fan, if GT6 is a arcade Mario Kart style game, I will flip out. But I'm perfectly happy playing Mario Kart.