Jimquisition: Hardcore Hypocrisy

[Callate]

snip

Just wanted to note that Deviate already said much of what I would. I, too, grew up with the Commodore 64 (and Atari 2600... And text adventures on my sister's Atari 800 with its cassette deck.) And while I feel a rosy glow of nostalgia when I play a game like Pac-Man or Space Invaders, it bears notice that those games came from an era when there was a real fear that the pizza-parlor customers might be baffled by a joystick and one button and, to steal a line from Douglas Adams, people still thought digital watches were a pretty neat idea.

I have no quarrel with Infinity Blade; I've never played it, I don't own a single iOS product, so it would be silly of me to pass judgement. But I certainly get why some people, especially the people who did indeed grow up in the NES era or before, might feel a certain frustration with the "casual market", if not necessarily with casual gamers themselves. Having learned all the complexities of new interfaces and technology, there's a real fear that our "time in the trenches" is going to be lost to a trend towards simpler interfaces, smaller screens, and less powerful hardware (that are, not coincidentally, far cheaper to design for.)

For myself, I have to confess that while I've played some cell phone games that were great fun, there haven't been any that I would trade for Mass Effect or Saints Row the Third or Command and Conquer. I spent a fair amount of time the last week playing the Droid version of the board game Settlers of Catan, and while the game itself is involving, there's still the frustration of going "No, build there. No, there. There, you imbecile... Do I need to borrow my daughter's fingers?"

Great strides have been made in optimizing touch-screen interfaces, but I refuse to pretend that they're the equal of a gamepad or a mouse and keyboard. While I'm happy to have "casual" and "hardcore" markets coexist, however you'd choose to define them, it's not entirely without merit to wonder if we're in danger of the market deciding for us "We've perfected the ranch house, so no need to build skyscrapers or cathedrals anymore."

 

[Falseprophet]

I'm really hoping that entire thing was sarcastic, because Jim's misconception of the word deep (or at least in the usual gamer lingo 'deep', which I assume he's using) is rather astounding. I think had he used the word 'complex' instead this entire thing would make sense, because yes, more complexity does not inherently make a better game. Depth, on the other hand, is an entirely different beast and IS what separates good games from bad 90%-100% of the time.

I didn't get that at all. I assumed by "deep" he meant "AAA title with pretensions to being a Hollywood movie because it has a feature-film level production budget and an overly elaborate plot" as opposed to "game with simple straightforward mechanics and no real need for complicated narrative."

Sometimes I'm in the mood to watch Citizen Kane or The Godfather or Inception. But sometimes I just want to watch an episode of Big Bang Theory. Not every movie has to be Citizen Kane. And I really don't like movies that think they're Citizen Kane but are actually closer to Big Bang Theory (cough, cough--Vanilla Sky--cough). I sure as hell would rather play a "casual" game that's fun and has no pretensions about being something it's not than some overhyped AAA epic with a shallow narrative that thinks it's the second coming.

 

[Epona]

Well, I admit I didn't watch the whole episode because quite frankly, I don't care about Jims new obsession with gaming on telephones.

Jim, I like buttons and I fuckin hate touch screens. I play the shit out of my DS and PSP so I am not against handheld gaming but I LIKE BUTTONS. I don't play DS games that require use of the touch screen. I paid $170 for my DSi XL and I have no desire to scratch up my screen trying to roll into a tree. I like the dual screens, that what I love about the DS. I don't like the touch screen or the microphone or the cameras.

My biggest thing is, why would I play a hardcore game on a touchscreen when I can play a hardcore game with buttons? No, I don't mean virtual buttons either, real buttons give physical feedback.

 

[Substitute Troll]

I usually can't stand the Jimquisition, but he's had a pretty good month of videos thus far. Keep it up.

You do know that the whole "Thank god for me" thing is just a joke right? You'd be surprised at how many people didn't get that at first.

 

[jacobythehedgehog]

I really enjoyed Infinity Blade. I havent played 2, but 1 was such a good game. I liked how I could play it for 5 mins at a time and just play every so often, it was short intense and just plain fun.

 

[Danny91]

a bit tangential, but the only real gripes i have with IOS games are not that they're too simple. or that they're too casual; its that i cant get them on my pc! seriously! i would fling money at my laptop hard enough to blow a hole through it if i could get a pc compatible version for angry birds or infinity blade!... and no i wont buy an i-phone.... unless apple makes a deal with bethesda and you can buy an apple pip boy...

Sorry, just as a point, I have a version of Angry Birds I play on my pc, Im sorry I cant remember where I got it, but evidentially they released it

 

[Freaky Lou]

I don't play video games often, but when I do it's things like TES, New Vegas and Planescape: Torment. Is there a name for this?

 

[orangeapples]

I play RPGs, JRPGs, Puzzle, Brain, FPS, TPS, MMORPG, RTS, Stealth/Espionage, Action, Adventure, Action/Adventure, Music/Rhythm, Racing, Sports, Fighting. I play both 'hardcore' and 'casual' games, so what does that make me? A gamer, it doesn't matter what classification you use for the game, I am a gamer.

I find it odd that in the human search for a conflict of 'us' vs. 'them' (gamers vs non-gamers) gamers have always had this other conflict of "us" 'us' vs. "them" 'us' (console wars, hardcore vs casual). And then it isn't enough for some gamers and we have the 'US' "us" 'us' vs. THEM' "us" 'us' (genre wars, because that makes sense). AND EVEN THEN some are not satisfied with the conflict and we have the "US" 'US' "us" 'us' vs. "THEM" 'US' "us" 'us' (Brawl vs Melee). And to go even further, we have the US "US" 'US' "us" 'us' vs. THEM "US" 'US' "us" 'us' (the run and gunners of MW3 vs. the campers of MW3). It is a wonder why people even hope for world peace when we can't even find peace within the gamer community. We're on the same side and yet we still need to fight against each other. People, we are running out of sand to draw lines in.

 

[Virmire]

I agree except for his statements on Infinity Blade being a 'pure' video game. I agree completely with the sentement, but not what the statement represents.
There IS NO SUCH THIS. It IS a video game, or it ISN'T. There is nothing in between. Plants Versus Zombies, Angry Birds, and even Desert Bus (if you are the most boring person in the world) are just as valid titles as Bioshock, Half Life 2 or Team Fortress 2. If it uses computer or digital programing, as long as it has interactivity, and was made and released as a video game, it can not be called anything but, to do so is simply wrong.

Games are for fun.

 

[badmunky64]

I think is the last jimquisition I'll be watching for a while. His persona is getting stale.

 

[Saippua]

Well this is nothing but a giant strawman. Herpderp some ancient game was similar and its considered classic so if we make simplistic games now they too should be classics too derp. Its classic because it was good for its time. Then was then now is now. And i dont even give a shit about pacman or punch out. Jesus fuck.

 

[leviadragon99]

Mmm, personally I see myself as somewhere between hardcore and casual, and while I have no interest in mobile phone or tablet games at the moment, I have nothing against them.

 

[Arppis]

Right as usual. I got nothing more to add.

 

[PunkRex]

In short: Respect your roots son!

Infinaty Blade looks fun on the bun. Funny how the more simpler games make you feel like such a badass as its more reliant on you where as the more complicated games tend to have a set way to do something.

 

[4173]

Mario is simple, but I'm not sure I'd call it casual or accessible. If I was trying to hook someone onto gaming these days, I wouldn't start with a game based on memorization and tricking/trapping the player into dying.

I wouldn't introduce someone to card games with fucking 52 pick-up...


edit: I've always figured hardcore as a function of time spent playing, not game type. Those types of gamers may gravitate towards certain kids of games, but it is effect, not cause.

 

[The Cheshire]

I like your videos Jim, but I am afraid the iOS defense is getting a little bit repetitive. Most of what you said here, you already said in "Steve Jobs and iOS -- Videogame Related" and in "Angry Birds is not Shit". I still enjoy your videos, but in this week was so-so.

 

[Aeonknight]

I'm not condescending enough to say that casual games are inherently bad, and people should feel bad for liking them. I have Super Mario Bros. Wii sitting on my shelf about 4 feet away. I also have Dark Souls sitting over there as well for when I want something a little more involved.

Nothing wrong with enjoying the best of both worlds. I just think all the hate on casual games/gamers comes from the irrational fear that this "new" genre is what every developer is going to be developing for. Angry Birds is a silly "time waster" game for when you're on the bus to wherever, still holds up to the standards to be considered a real game, but is that all I want to play? Of course not.

But this fear is not completely off. Look at the staggering amount of absolute crap games on the Wii. I don't want the market to jump the bandwagon and forget how to make more involved games. I don't think anyone does.

I'm not saying that's where it's going to go of course. Square Enix will still be making JRPG's, Activision will continue milking CoD for all it's worth, but all this hate on casual gamers just seems to be an overreaction on our part. That's it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well this is nothing but a giant strawman. Herpderp some ancient game was similar and its considered classic so if we make simplistic games now they too should be classics too derp. Its classic because it was good for its time. Then was then now is now. And i dont even give a shit about pacman or punch out. Jesus fuck.

So when you said "this," I assume you were describing your own post? Or are you suffering from that same "self awareness" problem Jim mentioned with the "Casual Shooter" thing?

Mario is simple, but I'm not sure I'd call it casual or accessible. If I was trying to hook someone onto gaming these days, I wouldn't start with a game based on memorization and tricking/trapping the player into dying.

I wouldn't introduce someone to card games with fucking 52 pick-up...

I can't speak for every new Mario, but The original SMB and SMB 3 both qualify as "shit my mom" played. And my dad, too.

My mom also seemed to have no problem with Super Mario Galaxy, despite having not played a video game since like 1989 or so. And she's not exactly the type of person you expect to dive into video games.

Does that make it the rule? No, but it does make it hard for me to buy the notion that a Mario game is a poor introduction.