Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3: A Gay Erotic Love Story

[Helmholtz Watson]

That's rape, not homosexuality. Homosexuality is simply being attracted to another of the same sex, how one acts based on that has nothing to do with homosexuality itself, but rather the individuals past experiences.

And why not, what's wrong with a phallus?

You made a sweeping generalization that homosexuality has never hurt anybody, I called bs because it has(i.e. people have committed crimes because of it). Now I'm not saying that all homosexuals are bad people(because their not) just that it is ignorant of you to say that no homosexual has ever hurt anybody because their homosexual.

bi?

I didn't make a comment about the option for being gay, I made a comment about a sweeping generalization.

well you seem to have a problem with the whole thing

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

Damn it! Stop with the fetish suggestions or you will get me banned from this forums!

Also for me is like having a vegetarian dish in the menu, I will probably skip it because buying veggies in a fine restaurant is for suckers, but always nice to see it.

Not if it comes at the expense of a poorer quality game.

for fucks sake...its not going to ruin the game...in previous games you could bang aliens now if that didnt ruin the game (which surprise surprise it didnt) then I dont see how shepard having a 30 second scene with another man is going to ruin the game

Because it's not a 30 second scene. It's a series of dialogue trees, written scenarios, coding, animations, voice acting and testing, all of which takes up a lot of development time. Development time which could have been spent adding more content or improving on existing content.

Add into that the excuses Bioware will have to write up due to not making any mention of it in the previous 2 games, the possibilities of falsely initiating it just by being friendly ala DA2 and the obvious pandering to knee-jerk accusations of homophobia, it all seems more trouble than it's worth. Does the gay community now feel vindicated because a virtual character can stick it up a guys arse?

Would the Day 1 dlc have been in the main game if Bioware didn't feel they had to put a gay romance in?

But it's ok to have all those things for Heterosexual couples?

That's rape, not homosexuality. Homosexuality is simply being attracted to another of the same sex, how one acts based on that has nothing to do with homosexuality itself, but rather the individuals past experiences.

And why not, what's wrong with a phallus?

You made a sweeping generalization that homosexuality has never hurt anybody, I called bs because it has(i.e. people have committed crimes because of it). Now I'm not saying that all homosexuals are bad people(because their not) just that it is ignorant of you to say that no homosexual has ever hurt anybody because their homosexual.

I hope you understand that sexual crimes are largely committed by straight people.

Not because straight people are more likely to be deviants, but because the percentage of straight is larger than gay, where I'm willing to wager the percentage of sex criminals is probably roughly similar.

I do realize that, which is why I would never say that heterosexuality has never harmed anybody, because obviously it has. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I'm saying that heterosexuality/homosexuality=sexual crimes, it just means that a persons sexual desire/lust/preference has hurt a few people.

Would you say the same of a straight person? i.e, that their heterosexuality caused them to commit a crime?

I believe I did just that when I responded to jovack22

I apologize. It's a very long thread, it would not surprise me if I missed a couple posts.

However, there's one slight thing I need to argue:

I said homosexuality in and of itself. Meaning that homosexuality itself means nothing other than attraction. Context is important, and without context, something like homosexuality means little other than an attribute of ones character, like a preference towards a certain colour or genre. Harmless by itself, but it can potentially have consequences for those who are homosexual (see centuries of prosecution and execution) and the actions of those who are (Like rape, for example).

Your arguing over symantics now.

I'm arguing semantics because you misunderstood and misconstrued my argument.

No you made it sound like no homosexual person has ever committed a sexually based crime before, which I called bullshit on.

Just because a crime is sexually based does not mean that a person's orientation is the cause. It's incidental, it's the fact that the person is fucked up that is the actual cause.

The claim was that no homosexual has ever committed a sexually based crime was what I was calling bullshit on

No, it wasn't:

Well why not? Homosexuality never hurt anyone in and of itself.

That's rape, not homosexuality. Homosexuality is simply being attracted to another of the same sex, how one acts based on that has nothing to do with homosexuality itself, but rather the individuals past experiences.

The claim was the same thing we are arguing: that homosexuality in and of itself is not a cause for those crimes.
EDIT: Quotes don't have links because I'm lazy. I can provide linked quotesif you want, but they're both just further back on this quote tree.

ah, I misread, My mistake, apologies

 

[Avatar Roku]

That's rape, not homosexuality. Homosexuality is simply being attracted to another of the same sex, how one acts based on that has nothing to do with homosexuality itself, but rather the individuals past experiences.

And why not, what's wrong with a phallus?

You made a sweeping generalization that homosexuality has never hurt anybody, I called bs because it has(i.e. people have committed crimes because of it). Now I'm not saying that all homosexuals are bad people(because their not) just that it is ignorant of you to say that no homosexual has ever hurt anybody because their homosexual.

bi?

I didn't make a comment about the option for being gay, I made a comment about a sweeping generalization.

well you seem to have a problem with the whole thing

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

Damn it! Stop with the fetish suggestions or you will get me banned from this forums!

Also for me is like having a vegetarian dish in the menu, I will probably skip it because buying veggies in a fine restaurant is for suckers, but always nice to see it.

Not if it comes at the expense of a poorer quality game.

for fucks sake...its not going to ruin the game...in previous games you could bang aliens now if that didnt ruin the game (which surprise surprise it didnt) then I dont see how shepard having a 30 second scene with another man is going to ruin the game

Because it's not a 30 second scene. It's a series of dialogue trees, written scenarios, coding, animations, voice acting and testing, all of which takes up a lot of development time. Development time which could have been spent adding more content or improving on existing content.

Add into that the excuses Bioware will have to write up due to not making any mention of it in the previous 2 games, the possibilities of falsely initiating it just by being friendly ala DA2 and the obvious pandering to knee-jerk accusations of homophobia, it all seems more trouble than it's worth. Does the gay community now feel vindicated because a virtual character can stick it up a guys arse?

Would the Day 1 dlc have been in the main game if Bioware didn't feel they had to put a gay romance in?

But it's ok to have all those things for Heterosexual couples?

That's rape, not homosexuality. Homosexuality is simply being attracted to another of the same sex, how one acts based on that has nothing to do with homosexuality itself, but rather the individuals past experiences.

And why not, what's wrong with a phallus?

You made a sweeping generalization that homosexuality has never hurt anybody, I called bs because it has(i.e. people have committed crimes because of it). Now I'm not saying that all homosexuals are bad people(because their not) just that it is ignorant of you to say that no homosexual has ever hurt anybody because their homosexual.

I hope you understand that sexual crimes are largely committed by straight people.

Not because straight people are more likely to be deviants, but because the percentage of straight is larger than gay, where I'm willing to wager the percentage of sex criminals is probably roughly similar.

I do realize that, which is why I would never say that heterosexuality has never harmed anybody, because obviously it has. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I'm saying that heterosexuality/homosexuality=sexual crimes, it just means that a persons sexual desire/lust/preference has hurt a few people.

Would you say the same of a straight person? i.e, that their heterosexuality caused them to commit a crime?

I believe I did just that when I responded to jovack22

I apologize. It's a very long thread, it would not surprise me if I missed a couple posts.

However, there's one slight thing I need to argue:

I said homosexuality in and of itself. Meaning that homosexuality itself means nothing other than attraction. Context is important, and without context, something like homosexuality means little other than an attribute of ones character, like a preference towards a certain colour or genre. Harmless by itself, but it can potentially have consequences for those who are homosexual (see centuries of prosecution and execution) and the actions of those who are (Like rape, for example).

Your arguing over symantics now.

I'm arguing semantics because you misunderstood and misconstrued my argument.

No you made it sound like no homosexual person has ever committed a sexually based crime before, which I called bullshit on.

Just because a crime is sexually based does not mean that a person's orientation is the cause. It's incidental, it's the fact that the person is fucked up that is the actual cause.

The claim was that no homosexual has ever committed a sexually based crime was what I was calling bullshit on

No, it wasn't:

Well why not? Homosexuality never hurt anyone in and of itself.

That's rape, not homosexuality. Homosexuality is simply being attracted to another of the same sex, how one acts based on that has nothing to do with homosexuality itself, but rather the individuals past experiences.

The claim was the same thing we are arguing: that homosexuality in and of itself is not a cause for those crimes.
EDIT: Quotes don't have links because I'm lazy. I can provide linked quotesif you want, but they're both just further back on this quote tree.

ah, I misread, My mistake, apologies

Happens to everyone.

 

[CapitalistPig]

WOW..............all to say to that. lol. Thank god for Jim

 

[Rainboq]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner. RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

That would mean that someone prominent within the company would want that, or there would have to be a large public outcry over it.

So what you're basically saying is that the only reason there's a gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is because gay people are more whiny?

No, one, there's probably a higher up at Bioware/Activision who wanted it, the LGBTTQ community are actually a fairly large market and its not very taboo anymore.

 

[Sporky111]

I bust out laughing at "tumescent Turian tree trunk" and then again at "greased worms in a bucket of man sex".

I'm kind of pleased that I'm not hearing much flak about the gay romance options in ME3. It must be the problems with Origin and "From Ashes" overshadowing it.

 

[Beliyal]

Even after this beautiful satire, people still argue. I am sad, truly. And I am even more sad at the fact that people will continue to argue about this for months to come.

Anyway, Jim, this was awesome. I couldn't believe that you could read this with a straight face, I was laughing my ass off. And honestly, you're really good at this. Made me want to make a gay Shepard, so then I could... Do stuff... You know... I'll be in my bunk.

 

[yundex]

So the most boring episode of the show has people arguing back and fourth about pedophilia in video games? Le sigh.

 

[secretsantaone]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner. RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

That would mean that someone prominent within the company would want that, or there would have to be a large public outcry over it.

So what you're basically saying is that the only reason there's a gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is because gay people are more whiny?

No, one, there's probably a higher up at Bioware/Activision who wanted it, the LGBTTQ community are actually a fairly large market and its not very taboo anymore.

Who said anything about it being taboo?

Besides, don't you think it's a bit shallow to cram in a gay romance just to appeal to gay people? Surely that's the same as putting a black character in to appeal to black people?

From a story point of view, it doesn't seem to add anything now we're in the last game, because the only way to get it to fit would be to say 'I was gay all along even though it wasn't foreshadowed or hinted at all in the last two games!', which is just plain bad writing.

 

[secretsantaone]

Even after this beautiful satire, people still argue. I am sad, truly. And I am even more sad at the fact that people will continue to argue about this for months to come.

Anyway, Jim, this was awesome. I couldn't believe that you could read this with a straight face, I was laughing my ass off. And honestly, you're really good at this. Made me want to make a gay Shepard, so then I could... Do stuff... You know... I'll be in my bunk.

Heaven forbid people use the comments section to discuss rather than mindlessly worship the content creator.

 

[Rainboq]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner. RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

That would mean that someone prominent within the company would want that, or there would have to be a large public outcry over it.

So what you're basically saying is that the only reason there's a gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is because gay people are more whiny?

No, one, there's probably a higher up at Bioware/Activision who wanted it, the LGBTTQ community are actually a fairly large market and its not very taboo anymore.

Who said anything about it being taboo?

Besides, don't you think it's a bit shallow to cram in a gay romance just to appeal to gay people? Surely that's the same as putting a black character in to appeal to black people?

From a story point of view, it doesn't seem to add anything now we're in the last game, because the only way to get it to fit would be to say 'I was gay all along even though it wasn't foreshadowed or hinted at all in the last two games!', which is just plain bad writing.

Have you ever been in the closet? Because if you have been, you'd know how much effort goes into hiding your sexuality. And speaking as someone who has only ever gone femshep, I don't really see what all the fuss is about, its the writers' story, not yours, all you are is along for the ride, you might get to choose your path, but its their junctures, not yours. If you want something different, ship it.

 

[Avatar Roku]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner. RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

That would mean that someone prominent within the company would want that, or there would have to be a large public outcry over it.

So what you're basically saying is that the only reason there's a gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is because gay people are more whiny?

No, one, there's probably a higher up at Bioware/Activision who wanted it, the LGBTTQ community are actually a fairly large market and its not very taboo anymore.

Who said anything about it being taboo?

Besides, don't you think it's a bit shallow to cram in a gay romance just to appeal to gay people? Surely that's the same as putting a black character in to appeal to black people?

From a story point of view, it doesn't seem to add anything now we're in the last game, because the only way to get it to fit would be to say 'I was gay all along even though it wasn't foreshadowed or hinted at all in the last two games!', which is just plain bad writing.

I don't think it's any more shallow than having the heterosexual romances (which were, admittedly, quite shallow as well).

As for the last part, it depends how you played Shepard. I know a lot of people who played a male Shepard and made him gay (and quite frustrated, naturally). I also know people who characterized their Shepard as a Kirk-like fuck-anything-that-moves sort of person. If you did not do that with yours, no one is making you make your Shepard gay now.

Besides, I think it's equally bad writing to have a lesbian romance in the first one (yes, Asari are technically mono-gendered and no, that is no more convincing now than it was then) and then no such options in the second (and Jack, at least, admitted to swinging both ways).

 

[Harlief]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo, lemme get this straight, Jim and Yahtzee can cus like sailors and the thing is fine with that, but an the mere mention of homosexuality it age gates the fucking thing?

A mere mention would be a couple of sentences, this was the whole episode describing (in a great amount of detail) sex. I'm pretty damn sure that if this episode was heterosexual or inter-special themed it'd be age restricted just like this one.

 

[Icehearted]

I'm pretty sure no one actually has problems with ME3 having homo relationships in it. Especially when bigger issues are obvious *cough* Origin *cough*.

I remember talk of forcing the player to experience a complete "chapter" of the game dealing explicitly with homosexuality.

Also, Turrians were birds, so would Garrus taste like chicken?

Not that I want to taste him or anything.

 

[algalon]

So....very....wrong

 

[IamLEAM1983]

As usual, wonderful video.

I think Jim addresses the matter adequately. I didn't know some fans were actually raging at the inclusion of a gay romance option and the very idea that some of them were raging about that makes me want to pull off a pretty massive facepalm.

Grow up, folks. Homosexuality isn't a disease and BioWare isn't contaminating your hobby of choice with "teh gay". If you played your Shepard as a hetero, then simply ignore the man-on-man content that's pressed on the disc. If, on the other hand, you went FemShep+Liara and have the gall to throw up a shitstorm for this, then you're a hypocrite. Plain and simple.

 

[secretsantaone]

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner. RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

That would mean that someone prominent within the company would want that, or there would have to be a large public outcry over it.

So what you're basically saying is that the only reason there's a gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is because gay people are more whiny?

No, one, there's probably a higher up at Bioware/Activision who wanted it, the LGBTTQ community are actually a fairly large market and its not very taboo anymore.

Who said anything about it being taboo?

Besides, don't you think it's a bit shallow to cram in a gay romance just to appeal to gay people? Surely that's the same as putting a black character in to appeal to black people?

From a story point of view, it doesn't seem to add anything now we're in the last game, because the only way to get it to fit would be to say 'I was gay all along even though it wasn't foreshadowed or hinted at all in the last two games!', which is just plain bad writing.

Have you ever been in the closet? Because if you have been, you'd know how much effort goes into hiding your sexuality. And speaking as someone who has only ever gone femshep, I don't really see what all the fuss is about, its the writers' story, not yours, all you are is along for the ride, you might get to choose your path, but its their junctures, not yours. If you want something different, ship it.

I'm sorry but in terms of story telling 'he was in the closet and was hiding it all along' is about as hackneyed as you can get.

Just because it's someone else's story, doesn't mean I can't criticise it. Please don't dissolve this into 'let's see you do better'.

I don't think it's any more shallow than having the heterosexual romances (which were, admittedly, quite shallow as well).

As for the last part, it depends how you played Shepard. I know a lot of people who played a male Shepard and made him gay (and quite frustrated, naturally). I also know people who characterized their Shepard as a Kirk-like fuck-anything-that-moves sort of person. If you did not do that with yours, no one is making you make your Shepard gay now.

Besides, I think it's equally bad writing to have a lesbian romance in the first one (yes, Asari are technically mono-gendered and no, that is no more convincing now than it was then) and then no such options in the second (and Jack, at least, admitted to swinging both ways).

Please explain how you can make a character gay if there are no gay options in the two games.

You could only pretend he was gay, but there was no way to actually make the character gay.

And as there was no way to make the character gay, it seems like poor writing to suddenly decide he is 3 games in.

 

[goliath6711]

Not that it wasn't funny, but it really was a strawman argument; I think we've had enough threads about this already, but most of the objections are about canonical authenticity and over when gay relationships were introduced.

What, so if a strait femshep decides to bat for the other team in the second installment, that's acceptable?

But when a male Shepard does it, then OMG CONTINUITY FUCKUP?

That makes no sense to me.Is femshep allowed to get away with it because they're more used to seeing girls go both ways in their porn? Has no-body told these people that men can be casually bisexual as well?

Pretty damned spot on, welcome to double standards.

If you wanna grasp onto whatever flimsy straw you can to have this not seem like a last second add-on, go right ahead. I'm not. Also if continuity doesn't matter, then why have the ability to transfer saves from game to game, having decisions from the last affect the outcome of the next?

*stands up, begins slow clap*
Bravo, sir. Bravo

Agreed. And let us all thank the gods for Jim Sterling. ^^

I never really understood what the deal was about Bioware and their over-the-top-commitment to straight relationships. Femshep boning Lizard-Men is alright, but Lesbians are unholy?

Actually, it isn't Bioware's fault. They tried to have homosexual options in ME1 (the code is still in there, half done) but the guy who did the motion capture for Male Shep (some sort of Underwear model, I believe?) threw a hissy fit about anything "gay" being associated with him and threatened to not let them use his face for Shepard if they made it possible for Male Shep to be gay.

Unable to have gay Male Shep, Bioware removed Ashley from Femshep's options to make things fair.

They tried again in ME2 (again, the options are in the code, but unfinished) but hit the same wall from Mr. Underpants model.

However, since ME3 is the last game with Shepard in it, they no longer have to give a fuck about pissing Mr. Underpants off. Hence the gay options in ME3.

If I had my way my femshep would be whoring herself out to just about everyone on the normandy. She's already banged Liara and Garrus. lol

My Femshep is actually pretty specific about only dating one girl at a time (she's gay - Liara, Kelly, and (hopefully) Tali... or maybe Liara again, I can't decide).

However, my Male Shep is a total slut. Too bad you're only allowed to sleep with one crew member per game (unlike, say, Dragon Age) because, if he could, my Male Shep would work his way through every female crew member and half of the men too.

I played my Male Shep as my male DA:O character and managed to sleep with all four romancable party members before the end. I ended with Morrigan because he and she fit so well together. Also, it was hilarious when Leliana suspected I was cheating on her. I kept her happy on total bullshit while continuing to sleep with Morrigan. My Male Shep/Hero of Fereldin is a total Renegade bastard. ^^ I love him.

yeah its completely a "hissy fit" if you are uncomfortable doing something that isn't part of your sexuality. /sarcasm

Except he's not doing something. A virtual man that looks like him is doing that something.

He still has a right to decide how he is depicted, people don't have to agree with his choice, but they should respect it.

It's not him, though. It's Shepard.

It's still his image, and he should have final say over that. Actually if Bioware really want this option in the first game, why not just get a model that was ok with it?

Then identical twins should control what the other appears in.
You really don't think it's a bit petty to be upset that a virtual man who merely LOOKS like you happens to possibly have a taste for cock?

No I don't think its wrong for a person to have human feelings about how their digital image is being depicted.

Its just like if (hypothetically) the model Jacqui Ainsley didn't like being portrait as a women willing to use her body, I wouldn't try to minimize her feelings.

That's totally different. That's portraying a person as something they're not. But you see, there's this thing called 'acting'. And, since this is a digital representation of a person NOT INTENDED TO BE THE ACTOR, then I can't see any problem with how it's used. Especially since he's not a very distinctive person. If he was instantly recognisable from the image, and it was used as a slight against him, I'd understand it. But to get upset because you're a motion capture for a possibly gay character?
It's not him. It just looks like him. It has no relation to him. It's Captain Shepard. It'd be like saying Gerard Butler is without a doubt a murderer because you saw him in Law Abiding Citizen once. Only...this is actually more far-fetched.

Okay, let's really examine this point. In Law Abiding Citizen, Gerard Butler plays a loving family man who uses his tech knowledge wreak havoc not only on the murderers of his wife and daughter, but pretty much every legal and political official in the city of Philadelphia. Now what if it was decided that that backstory was too boring, so let's say the decision was made to liven it up by having him periodically beat his wife and rape his daughter before their murder. And hey, since Jamie Foxx is playing the lawyer that screwed him over in the case, let's make him a racist too. Now imagine all of this was done without Gerard Butler knowing it. This was all done with dialogue that was dubbed in by a sound-alike in post production editing. They even threw in a couple of scenes with acting doubles for him and Jamie Foxx talking about how the Emancipation Proclamation should be repealed. And he doesn't find out until he sitting at the premiere of the movie with the same wide-eyed expression of shock on his face that the rest of the audience has when they see and hear this. Now I can safely assume that Gerard Butler is not a racist, wife-beating pedophile. But you know what? He also didn't agree to play one in this movie either.

 

[Slayer_2]

I'm pretty sure no one actually has problems with ME3 having homo relationships in it. Especially when bigger issues are obvious *cough* Origin *cough*.

I remember talk of forcing the player to experience a complete "chapter" of the game dealing explicitly with homosexuality.

I highly doubt that, Bioware has always made the cheesy romances optional. In ME1 I think I tried to have a three-way with Ashley and Liara, but failed, that was funny.

 

[Rainboq]

Not that it wasn't funny, but it really was a strawman argument; I think we've had enough threads about this already, but most of the objections are about canonical authenticity and over when gay relationships were introduced.

What, so if a strait femshep decides to bat for the other team in the second installment, that's acceptable?

But when a male Shepard does it, then OMG CONTINUITY FUCKUP?

That makes no sense to me.Is femshep allowed to get away with it because they're more used to seeing girls go both ways in their porn? Has no-body told these people that men can be casually bisexual as well?

Pretty damned spot on, welcome to double standards.

If you wanna grasp onto whatever flimsy straw you can to have this not seem like a last second add-on, go right ahead. I'm not. Also if continuity doesn't matter, then why have the ability to transfer saves from game to game, having decisions from the last affect the outcome of the next?

I never said that. I'm merely pointing out a double standard that exists in society.

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning.

Realizing I'm cutting your whole rant just to bash on this one staement but I have to. This is a BS argument for several reasons.
1. A lot of people will START at ME3, and a game should, while taking it's legacy in account, try and be a stand alone work. Anyone starting at 3 have no history to "betray" by playing GayShep
2. You can play ME1 and 2 with the intention of being GayShep, but not finding a suitable partner. RPG options 4 the win.
3. People come out as gay in every period of their lives. He could have been in the closet or just bi-sexual untill now. Again, roleplay.
4 I can play as the SAME Sheppard but with different faces and different personality in all three games. They let me fuck up my own history if I want to, why on earth would that freedome not be extended to sexuality.
5 it's a friggin OPTION! If it messes with YOUR Sheppard, he can be as straight as you want to. I wanna give it to Garrus up the arse, why would you care if I do that?

Well if we accomodatd your Shepard then what about the people that want to be able to bugger livestock with their Shepard? Are they not as important as the gay crowd? What about the people out there that want a pedo Shepard? Do we accommodate them too and maybe throw a couple little boys on the ship? These are all just options after all.

One: Gays are a fairly significant percentage of the population. Two: Those things you mentioned are ILLEGAL.

Foot fetishists are fairly common too, do we need a foot sex scene?

That would mean that someone prominent within the company would want that, or there would have to be a large public outcry over it.

So what you're basically saying is that the only reason there's a gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is because gay people are more whiny?

No, one, there's probably a higher up at Bioware/Activision who wanted it, the LGBTTQ community are actually a fairly large market and its not very taboo anymore.

Who said anything about it being taboo?

Besides, don't you think it's a bit shallow to cram in a gay romance just to appeal to gay people? Surely that's the same as putting a black character in to appeal to black people?

From a story point of view, it doesn't seem to add anything now we're in the last game, because the only way to get it to fit would be to say 'I was gay all along even though it wasn't foreshadowed or hinted at all in the last two games!', which is just plain bad writing.

Have you ever been in the closet? Because if you have been, you'd know how much effort goes into hiding your sexuality. And speaking as someone who has only ever gone femshep, I don't really see what all the fuss is about, its the writers' story, not yours, all you are is along for the ride, you might get to choose your path, but its their junctures, not yours. If you want something different, ship it.

I'm sorry but in terms of story telling 'he was in the closet and was hiding it all along' is about as hackneyed as you can get.

Just because it's someone else's story, doesn't mean I can't criticise it. Please don't dissolve this into 'let's see you do better'.

Did I say that? Yes you can criticize the game, hell, if you don't like this decision, DON'T BUY THE GAME. If you do buy it, you basically have little to no right to complain. Seriously though, the segments might be well written for all you know, and you might never encounter those moments, but I'd imagine that there are some players out there who played Shepard as a rather flirty gay male, but never got to explore that further.

 

[thisbymaster]

Jim's voice has the same effect on me as thinking of my grandmother. *Shutter* I can't think of a worst way to make a point, maybe if he masturbated on the screen the whole time as well. Congrats your argument is worse off now then when you started. I would have supported your ideas but after watching this, you have turned me to the other side.