Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

[Paladin Anderson]

I do not plan on having any homosexuality in my playthroughs of ME3. I am a straight male.

I fully support homosexuality in both ME3 and the world as a whole.

To quote Dr. Cox: "I like the gays. I like their music. I like their sense of style. I especially like what they've done with Christmas."

That quote was awesome.

If you're not as tolerant as freaking Dr. Cox then... I'm sorry... You've failed at life. Press the reset button and start over.

 

[Ukomba]

so ignoring Jim's sad use of ad hominems, does he realize that Liara isn't a female?

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

If your attracted to something that, for all intents and purposes, looks just like a woman, then chances are, you're into women.

Not that simple since everyone is attracted to them in some way regardless of both gender and species. There's just something about them. Unless you want to argue every species in the universe has the hots for human women.

Well, from what I gathered in game (the bachelor party on Illium), all the races think the Asari look like their own.

Now, I haven't read anything to suggest that the Asari use some sort of brain control or pheromone to attract a mate, but hey, it's sci-fi.

Actually, there is evidence to suggest that there is some kind of mind control going on. It's most noticeable with the Ardat-Yakshi and Samara's loyalty mission. There's the way she seduced her female victim before Shepard gets to her, and if you're renegade/paragon isn't high enough Morinth will dominate even Shepard, even when you know who/what she is. She even has an ability called Dominate if you get her as a party member.

Ardat-Yakshi are like normal Asari, just with certain aspects cranked up to 11, so it would stand to reason the average Asari have a toned down version of this.

 

[Goremocker]

Too bad you missed the last argument Jim. the, "it doesn't fit in the story as canon" which is easy to argue by explaining my playthrough of ME2 (Missed ME1 sorry).

My Shep had a thing for Garrus, bringing him on every mission, talking to him every time he could, and saving his ass at every moment possible. But regardless of his crush, he never got past the friend zone and ended up getting with Tali.

I personally like this version more than having a gay Shep from the start. it shows complexity. Now my Shep has feelings for both characters, and needs to make a decision between them. Opening up to Garrus or keeping a macho masculine attitude and sticking with Tali. The weaker and easier to dominate of the two. Making this about his insecureities as a leader aswell.

Maybe it's just because I like to look more into things than normal people, but I like that a Hell of a lot more than, Gay Shep, lol. And doesn't leave one feeling as if the game has cheated them out of a deeper experience, or like the character has drastically changed in some way. At least in my opinion.

So that clears up my stance on the whole canon thing. like there was even a an argument there in the first place.

 

[Paladin Anderson]

I care about the sudden ability to be gay in ME3 less and less every time I see news of it.. I didn't watch last week due to avoiding ME3 info in hopes of going in pretty much blind, mixed with the general reactions it got. This week my first thought was, "really Jim, same subject two weeks in a row?" I'm probably not even gonna go back and watch these later. I really have no damns to give about Shepard being able to be gay.

Then why are you posting here?

 

[CleverCover]

How can gay Shepard be retconning when you create your own Shepard? If I went and played Mass Effect 1 right now I could make a gay Shepard if I wanted.

And you can play Mass Effect 1 thinking Shepard is indded Zerg opperative planted by Kerrigan in order to prove this weak alien races before the invasion, that doesn't make it cannon. In the cannon of the previous ME Shepard was a male/female baddass human operative that kicked reapers asses and did straight/lesbian stuff in his freetime, now it's straight/lesbian/gay, thats a addition retcon.

Sure, you can argument that he was always gay, but we had no hints to that, ever, so now he being gay is retcon as much as if he suddenly tunrs a zerg opperative or that a new Starwars writer makes Chewbacca vegan. Not that there's something inherently bad about that, and sure, you retcon is not terrible in a proyect that involved hundreds of creatives over 6-7 years, still it's not something I like and yeah, i want PERFECT writing and hindsight!!!

I just...Your argument doesn't make any sense to me. I get what you mean. You feel like it's being added at a later date and being shoehorned in without any previous notice so suddenly straight Shep is gay Shep.

But that's wrong on so many levels. When I'm playing my Shep, I can take every word that comes out of his or her mouth and twist it to how I want it. That scene where he goes to meet Kaidan? He has thoughts buzzing around his head that he's denying but he still can't help but notice something different. When he chats up Jacob, there's more than just friendly banter there.

It's a story where the main thing is that you can control how the story goes. Bioware wrote up the paths that you can take, but you can twist every single reason for what he does.

I had two Shepards kill the Council at the very end of ME1. One did it because of revenge, because she hated them for never listening to her and felt this was retribution for not believing her when she said shit was hitting the fan. The other did it because he believed rescuing the Council might lead to a defeat against Sovereign.

Technically, I know it doesn't matter and that in the long run it's probably better to save them, but that's not how I played the story and that's not how I twisted the reasoning. So when you say that we have no hints, you say you had hints. Your Shepard was always a straight man. Mine was secretly struggling in his quarters over two of his crewmembers.

The writing doesn't always have to be handed to you for you to make up something in a RPG. Hell, it's one of the glories of the Elder Scrolls games. Let your imagination transcend the pixels.

 

[viranimus]

I think the level of intolerance, ignorance and hate has given me an aneurysm. Why is this allowed to continue? Surely someone can give an answer.

 

[Versuvius]

Well he has had me reconsider a few arguments (Specifically, Hamburger Hepler shoehorned in gayness) which does bother me, but it shouldn't. Second. That is a mighty fine meter long Deathcock.

 

[twiceworn]

OK good video but for the sake of spreading enlightenment to the REALLY IGNORANT, I must point out that what homosexuality and pedophile has in common is THE SEXUAL ATTRACTION!!!!
I really don't see how hard it is to understand a pedo sleeps with kids (NOT OK)a homo sleeps with consenting men (OK)but what they have in common is the feeling of sexual attraction which is not something you can choose. you don't choose to be attracted to men its just the way you are, and its the same with people who are sexually attracted to children,so the main argument is this:
"if being sexually attracted to children is a mental problem how isn't being attracted to men the same?"

feel free to comment with a clear scientific response, I need to see if there is anyone left with brains on the internet

 

[Daystar Clarion]

so ignoring Jim's sad use of ad hominems, does he realize that Liara isn't a female?

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

If your attracted to something that, for all intents and purposes, looks just like a woman, then chances are, you're into women.

Not that simple since everyone is attracted to them in some way regardless of both gender and species. There's just something about them. Unless you want to argue every species in the universe has the hots for human women.

Well, from what I gathered in game (the bachelor party on Illium), all the races think the Asari look like their own.

Now, I haven't read anything to suggest that the Asari use some sort of brain control or pheromone to attract a mate, but hey, it's sci-fi.

Actually, there is evidence to suggest that there is some kind of mind control going on. It's most noticeable with the Ardat-Yakshi and Samara's loyalty mission. There's the way she seduced her female victim before Shepard gets to her, and if you're renegade/paragon isn't high enough Morinth will dominate even Shepard, even when you know who/what she is. She even has an ability called Dominate if you get her as a party member.

Ardat-Yakshi are like normal Asari, just with certain aspects cranked up to 11, so it would stand to reason the average Asari have a toned down version of this.

Well no.

That's evidence as to what the Ardat-Yakshi are like.

I haven't read anything to suggest otherwise.

 

[Insurance Salesman]

Would I be considered homophobic if I thought characters should have a set sexuality i.e. Kaiden could be gay, straight, or bisexual (don't know which one he is canonically) but would stay that way no matter the choices of Shepard? I just think that the fact that a character's sexuality will simply magically change to fit a player's preferences seems like a cop-out on the issue. And yes, I would be fine with a lesbian or gay character who refused the advances of the opposite sex.

I do see your point, though, especially if Bioware considers the romances more like rewards to the player. Overall, an excellent and thought-provoking video.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

It was in Mass Effect 1 & 2 at one point:
Really have no idea why it was cut.

Because the underwear model who was used as the basis for Male Shep threatened to not let them use his image in future games if anything 'gay' was associated with him. So, if they wanted to keep their branding, they had to remove the gay male Shep options. And, having done that, they felt the need to remove the lesbian options to be fair (not counting Liara or Kelly).

Since ME3 is the last Shepard game, they no longer have to keep Mr. Underpants happy. Thus - Male Shep can finally be gay, and Fem Shep can finally have the full platter instead of being restricted to Liara and Kelly.

OT: Thank you Jim Sterling. Once again, I will be thanking the gods for you.

 

[maxben]

Yeah, by and large I agree. (And last week's entry required clarification for some people? Really? REALLY?!)

Would like to mention a couple of things, though.

It appears that human bisexuality, at least among men, isn't all that common. The studies and surveys cited by Wikipedia rate it as roughly between 2 and 6 percent.

I don't actually know the specifics of how Bioware intends to handle gay or bisexual relationships in ME3, nor, of course, do I have any idea how they will handle the issue in the future. But it has to be said that having every significant human male character you interact with be bisexual to give options is just lazy writing. (Or every female, for that matter, though it stretches credibility slightly less.) I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever. I'm even willing to believe that one or two human characters (including the player) are bisexual. But until bisexuality becomes a requirement for entry into the Alliance military, storytelling and character should have a priority over being able to re-use dialogue and textures for sex scenes.

For that matter, if we really want to be inclusive, "we need homosexual options for the PC" shouldn't just mean a couple of people who swing both ways; it's perfectly reasonable, and as far as I know untouched in Bioware's oeuvre, that some NPCs just be homosexual. It would actually be more interesting to my mind to have your strangely magnetic PC be shot down once in a while because your engineering officer just doesn't swing that way.

Other than that, as long as my companions pay attention when I say "no, not interested, thanks", I'm happy to applaud Bioware taking their excellent stories in whatever direction their writers see fit to take them.

Only I'm not going to be playing them because Origin is the devil. Oh well...

I don't see why we can't have straight, bi, and gay NPCs with romance options depending on your own character. And I dont see why we cant just have sexual orientation in the character creation screen so you can essentially toggle the gayness on or off.

However, you really need to look at the studies some more. From wiki: "In New Zealand, a 2006 study suggested that 20% of the population anonymously reported some homosexual feelings, few of them identifying as homosexual. Percentage of persons identifying homosexual was 2?3%."

Self-identifying as a homosexual is far lower than those who have homosexual sex and those who have homosexual feelings. This is likely because of the generally taboo nature of homosexuality, or merely that many people dont consider their sexual tendencies as central to their identity. In fact, the "homosexual identity" is a huge problem because its essentially a stereotype which leads to people feeling left out by homosexual groups, and therefore "not homosexuals".

 

[esperandote]

I'm not a pedophile or a homophobic but let just say that you woke up one day and everyone is gay and it is illegal to have sex with the only people you're genetically attracted to, would that make you a bad person?

Pedophiles had it and still have it worse that homosexuals because there's no chance their preference is going to be accepted any time. Remember, pedophiles that don't act on their desires haven't hurt anyone. They can't help it, they were born that way.

Of course, the problem with that analogy is the fact that this is about gay romance options leading to a gay love scene in a game. The comparison to pedophilia is that if we allow men to have sex with each other, then HUR HUR we have to let people choose to do the same to pedophiles.

Are you really advocating that analogue? I don't think you are, but bringing that comparison up seems to miss a few things. One, this issue isn't so much about gays existing as having gay sex. Two, given one, the pedophile analogue would mean romance leading to sex. Three, that's not illegal solely because "ew pedos," but because of the psychological ramifications involved. Because kids really can't consent to any real decisions, not just sex. This is not some specific anti-pedophile crusade here.

Acting on pedophilia is inherently victimising. acting on homosexual or heterosexual urges is not.

I don't think pedophilia should be an available option in games, god no, neither I'm excusing pedos that act on their desires, they should restrain themselves for the sake of the children. I just think people over-satanize the way people is born and do not choose to be, and that the analogy is plausible in a psychological/genetical level though not ot results of their actions.

 

[everfreeDragon]

I care about the sudden ability to be gay in ME3 less and less every time I see news of it.. I didn't watch last week due to avoiding ME3 info in hopes of going in pretty much blind, mixed with the general reactions it got. This week my first thought was, "really Jim, same subject two weeks in a row?" I'm probably not even gonna go back and watch these later. I really have no damns to give about Shepard being able to be gay.

Then why are you posting here?

My apathy is directed towards the choice to be gay being added to the game. I don't see the big deal about it personally.

 

[NightHawk21]

The only argument I would see against this (and I didn't comment on last weeks video so I don't know if its been brought up), would be if the scenario was forced on players in the form of a trophy or achievement or something. Mind you I subscribe to the theory that achievements should be something extra to the game and "beat level 1 to get a scripted event" should not be an achievement. Achievements should be kill x enemies in x seconds using blank. In this case I suppose you could argue that neither romantic options should be achievements.

 

[Ukomba]

so ignoring Jim's sad use of ad hominems, does he realize that Liara isn't a female?

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

If your attracted to something that, for all intents and purposes, looks just like a woman, then chances are, you're into women.

Not that simple since everyone is attracted to them in some way regardless of both gender and species. There's just something about them. Unless you want to argue every species in the universe has the hots for human women.

Well, from what I gathered in game (the bachelor party on Illium), all the races think the Asari look like their own.

Now, I haven't read anything to suggest that the Asari use some sort of brain control or pheromone to attract a mate, but hey, it's sci-fi.

Actually, there is evidence to suggest that there is some kind of mind control going on. It's most noticeable with the Ardat-Yakshi and Samara's loyalty mission. There's the way she seduced her female victim before Shepard gets to her, and if you're renegade/paragon isn't high enough Morinth will dominate even Shepard, even when you know who/what she is. She even has an ability called Dominate if you get her as a party member.

Ardat-Yakshi are like normal Asari, just with certain aspects cranked up to 11, so it would stand to reason the average Asari have a toned down version of this.

Well no.

That's evidence as to what the Ardat-Yakshi are like.

I haven't read anything to suggest otherwise.

Ardat-Yakshi are just the extreme. There's a lesser affliction that happens to 1% of Asari where they still over power and dominate their mates, but not lethally so. What you have, then, is a facet of Asari genetics and you're just arguing strength. Asari even mate by uniting their nervous systems with their partners, so the mental connection does exist with every Asari. Liara even uses it casually to simply read Shepards mind in the ME1.

 

[Tanakh]

uh, no, there is NOT a canon Elder Scrolls Prisoner escapee, they could be any race, and make any number of decisions throughout those games, there is not a single elder scrolls proagonist that could be considered "canon" same for Shepard. and then you mention Master Cheif from Halo, of course there is a canon Master Cheif, he's a defined character, the player makes no decisions when playign as him, the story only goes ONE way. basically you just reitorated your original statement that there "was a canon shepard" it's just as false now as it was then

and how could you possibly tell how likely it is for Shepard to have been gay in the first two games, there were no gay characters for him to talk to, no comfirmation of Shepard's sexuality that wasn't chosen by the player

i like debating unimportant things,it's fun to debate, but just so you know, this argument is entirely pointless, Shepard can be gay now if the player chooses, that's the long and short of it, don't like it, don't have your Shepard be gay

But there is cannon on his actions, this being the canonic ending of Daggerfall: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/warp-west; and Morrowind had ways to make your gameplay neccesarely outside cannon.

And once again, retcons can "not directly contradict previously established facts, but "fill in" missing background details, usually to support current plot points". Shepard being gay in ME 3 is exactly that, what part of the definition it doesn't satisfy? Unless you are arguning that "isn't a retcon".

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

I think what would be a better question would be, in a bisexual society where everyone just picked who they found attractive would we view both homosexuality and heterosexuality as mental illnesses/ fetish behavior ?

I don't think we'd care. In a society where sexuality is undefined until the time comes we'd never have experienced any vilification to either preference. We'd probably do the reasonable thing and not give a shit. But there lies the problem. When it comes to such topics people who can be reasoned with have chosen equality and those that can't never will, trying to is futile and they simply need to be silenced by the shouts of the reasonable. I'm not even saying these people need to like homosexuality, they just need to stop caring about it like a reasonable person. Ridiculous.

OT: I didn't watch the last video, I didn't really see an issue with gay Shepard and couldn't care what Jim had to say on it, as much as I enjoy his videos. I can see how it might be needed to shut up a few of the idiots that still need to learn their place.

A second push, though. Really? You guys really need this?

Paedophilia, alien asexuality and lore are your reasons gay Shepard should be taken from the game? If you posted that you were against the option of a gay Shepard then you disgust me on a level of basic principles. Stop being so fucking petty.

 

[Raddra]

Thank god for Jim.

Or is that... Thank Jim for Jim.

 

[applesandoranges]

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