Joss Whedon deletes twitter account following mass of feminist criticism

[EternallyBored]

Famous people can't say good morning without some SJW shitting all over it. Ignore the haters and you're insensitive. Apologize to them and you're spineless. Attempt to reason with them and they only become even more enraged. Quit and they'll never stop crowing about how they beat you. You cannot defeat a determined hater on the Internet. Maybe that's why so many of them hide here.

The entire social media thing that allows fans to voice their criticisms to the artists directly in real time is, frankly, garbage. At least with old fashion snail mail the editors/writers/artists of comics could pick a few worthwhile fan responses and discuss their merits in a response on the letters page. With Twitter, not so much. It is mostly Hate, hate, HATE, we love you, DEATH/RAPE threat. I am sure it was the same with snail mail, but the irrational hate mail was just tossed in the trash where it belonged. Not broadcasted across the entire world at the speed of light for everyone to see and comment on, join in, or bash.

They definately did, it may out me as old, but I remember the stories comics editors and writers would tell about all the hate mail and death threats they received pre-social media. I believe J.K. Rowling once joked that she could fill an entire room with just the death threats she received after books 5 and 6. I know several comic writers joked about receiving hate mail by the hundreds anytime they wrote a new story. Lucas used to talk about all the death threats he received after the prequels came out.

Social media didn't start this crap, just made it easier for everyone to see, not to mention made it harder to hide/delete unlike hate mail that can just be thrown in the shredder by the receptionist/secretary without ever being seen by the artist/creator, the advent of social media is why community managers have become such a big deal with large coorporations as everything is scrutinized and responded to in real time now instead of hidden behind e-mail, physical mail, and submitting messages to a personal website.

OT: meh, my sympathies for Whedon if the backlash is actually the reason he left, but really it's not like he's leaving Hollywood, so my care-o-meter isn't exactly maxing out over here. Still, there's a good reason I stay the hell away from Twitter, and other such sites. That, and my job kind of depends on me being out of the spotlight, sort of like teachers, me making an ass out of myself on social media could very well land me in the unemployment line in short order.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

People have to take everything literal these days. Oh Joss said he needed a woman and said without balls, A. It was a joke for fucks sake, humour, remember that? B, far from being transphobic he probably didn't pay any thought to transsexuals when he wrote that, remember they are a tiny minority of people that most don't pay thought to. But no, everything said on the Internet has to be interpreted literally and in the worst way possible. Are all these people just guys and girls with the sorts of disorders that stop them from understanding humour and subtext?

 

[Zontar]

I wish Movie Bob was still around just to see how the fuck he'd spin this one.

I checked his blog, he hasn't said anything about it yet. Nice review of Age of Ultron though, and a well deserved calling out of Nintendo too.

Wait, wait, wait, MovieBob called out Nintendo? As in, Movie "Biggest Nintendo Fanboy" Bob? The guy who defended Other M MovieBob?

 

[spartenX]

snip

I'm confused, what aspect of her character is being criticized?

Does it even matter? Any movie or character can be run through the Problem-Matic? in order to manufacture something to be outraged by. And this was a guy who went out of his way to suck up to the "progressive" crowd, and got shit on by them anyways:

Spoiler

The out cry about black widow is absolutely unfounded.

On the other hand making a transphobic statement like he did is pretty much patently not cool, and not acceptable.

just a quick question, are we sure that wasn't actually supposed to mean "don't write female characters by just writing them like a guy and then giving them a girls body"? admittedly I have never fully gotten that complaint about writing (i means sure gender differences will cause some differences in how characters may or may not act but its not like your entire character is based on your gender), it is preferable to saying something transphobic.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I wish Movie Bob was still around just to see how the fuck he'd spin this one.

I checked his blog, he hasn't said anything about it yet. Nice review of Age of Ultron though, and a well deserved calling out of Nintendo too.

Wait, wait, wait, MovieBob called out Nintendo? As in, Movie "Biggest Nintendo Fanboy" Bob? The guy who defended Other M MovieBob?

It was still quite gushy, but he did specifically talk about how a lot of things they're doing are bullshit, and they're getting too complacent.

snip

I'm confused, what aspect of her character is being criticized?

Does it even matter? Any movie or character can be run through the Problem-Matic? in order to manufacture something to be outraged by. And this was a guy who went out of his way to suck up to the "progressive" crowd, and got shit on by them anyways:

Spoiler

The out cry about black widow is absolutely unfounded.

On the other hand making a transphobic statement like he did is pretty much patently not cool, and not acceptable.

just a quick question, are we sure that wasn't actually supposed to mean "don't write female characters by just writing them like a guy and then giving them a girls body"? admittedly I have never fully gotten that complaint about writing (i means sure gender differences will cause some differences in how characters may or may not act but its not like your entire character is based on your gender), it is preferable to saying something transphobic.

That might be what he meant in all honesty, but it was also easily interpreted as taking a shot at trans people, even if it was only a joke. He really should have said that what made people mad wasn't the case if he actually meant it as a reference to the fact that biological females lack those parts. There's no weakness when you say that the silly thing you said got taken the wrong way, and that's not what you intended.

 

[JoJo]

But it's anti-feminists who are the arseholes.

Life isn't a Saturday morning cartoon, some feminists acting like pricks on Twitter doesn't automatically make their opponents the good guys.

OT: Probably best to hold back until an official statement comes from the man himself, this is the Internet, he could have deleted his twitter next week and we'd be blaming a different outrage of the day. These things know no political boundaries, a twitter mob is a twitter mob.

 

[Zontar]

But it's anti-feminists who are the arseholes.

Life isn't a Saturday morning cartoon, some feminists acting like pricks on Twitter doesn't automatically make their opponents the good guys.

Although this is true, let's be honest, the negative elements within modern feminism are seem doing something like this at least an order of magnitude more often those anti-feminists, MRAs and Egalitarians combined.

 

[JoJo]

But it's anti-feminists who are the arseholes.

Life isn't a Saturday morning cartoon, some feminists acting like pricks on Twitter doesn't automatically make their opponents the good guys.

Although this is true, let's be honest, the negative elements within modern feminism are seem doing something like this at least an order of magnitude more often those anti-feminists, MRAs and Egalitarians combined.

I don't know about that, look at all the shit that gets constantly thrown at Anita Sarkeesian, haters are going to hate regardless of their ideology.

 

[Zontar]

But it's anti-feminists who are the arseholes.

Life isn't a Saturday morning cartoon, some feminists acting like pricks on Twitter doesn't automatically make their opponents the good guys.

Although this is true, let's be honest, the negative elements within modern feminism are seem doing something like this at least an order of magnitude more often those anti-feminists, MRAs and Egalitarians combined.

I don't know about that, look at all the shit that gets constantly thrown at Anita Sarkeesian, haters are going to hate regardless of their ideology.

Anita is nothing special in any regards, and what I was more talking about was more public instances of harassment and not the online variety which is so ubiquitous that anyone complaining about it is doing so with ulterior motives if it is for a reason other then simply stating that it exists.

 

[Nirallus]

snip

I'm confused, what aspect of her character is being criticized?

Does it even matter? Any movie or character can be run through the Problem-Matic? in order to manufacture something to be outraged by. And this was a guy who went out of his way to suck up to the "progressive" crowd, and got shit on by them anyways:

Spoiler

The out cry about black widow is absolutely unfounded.

On the other hand making a transphobic statement like he did is pretty much patently not cool, and not acceptable.

I'll bite. How is that quip transphobic, let alone unacceptable?

Also for everyone's viewing pleasure, here's another hilarious compilation from Joss' Twitter. Maybe his fall from grace started when he failed to chastise Jeremy Renner for making that slut joke and Chris Evans for laughing at it.

Spoiler

Captcha: "way to go donny!"
Donny is out of his element.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I'll bite. How is that quip transphobic, let alone unacceptable?

Basically it's easily viewed as a shot at trans people. Basically talking about strong woman leads and not having male genitalia. Since not all trans people go in for gender reassignment surgery, it can be seen as a joke at the expense of trans people. Even if he didn't mean it that way that's how I saw it, as did a bunch of other transwomen apparently. If he didn't mean it that way, a clarification wouldn't be amiss.

 

[AwesomeHatMan]

You guys realise he's been getting questions about how to write strong female characters for years and the answer is more or less I write a strong character who is female. As for all the people complaining about his interpretation of the word female maybe he thought the question was referring to the sex...

 

[Zontar]

You guys realise he's been getting questions about how to write strong female characters for years and the answer is more or less I write a strong character who is female. As for all the people complaining about his interpretation of the word female maybe he thought the question was referring to the sex...

Given how people assume the statistically true, most people would probably make that same assumption if asked.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I wish Movie Bob was still around just to see how the fuck he'd spin this one.

I checked his blog, he hasn't said anything about it yet. Nice review of Age of Ultron though, and a well deserved calling out of Nintendo too.

Wait, wait, wait, MovieBob called out Nintendo? As in, Movie "Biggest Nintendo Fanboy" Bob? The guy who defended Other M MovieBob?

It was still quite gushy, but he did specifically talk about how a lot of things they're doing are bullshit, and they're getting too complacent.

snip

I'm confused, what aspect of her character is being criticized?

Does it even matter? Any movie or character can be run through the Problem-Matic? in order to manufacture something to be outraged by. And this was a guy who went out of his way to suck up to the "progressive" crowd, and got shit on by them anyways:

Spoiler

The out cry about black widow is absolutely unfounded.

On the other hand making a transphobic statement like he did is pretty much patently not cool, and not acceptable.

just a quick question, are we sure that wasn't actually supposed to mean "don't write female characters by just writing them like a guy and then giving them a girls body"? admittedly I have never fully gotten that complaint about writing (i means sure gender differences will cause some differences in how characters may or may not act but its not like your entire character is based on your gender), it is preferable to saying something transphobic.

That might be what he meant in all honesty, but it was also easily interpreted as taking a shot at trans people, even if it was only a joke. He really should have said that what made people mad wasn't the case if he actually meant it as a reference to the fact that biological females lack those parts. There's no weakness when you say that the silly thing you said got taken the wrong way, and that's not what you intended.

Except they asked about writing a strong FEMALE lead. Female means they have a vagina. Trans people aren't female, even if they're women. It's a clinical term, applied to people and inanimate objects like seatbelts and wires.

Oh, am I splitting hairs about the terms used in a joke limited to 140 characters to extrapolate a much further-reaching meaning than was ever intended, making me look some insane person? Dear me.

 

[Comic Sans]

I'll bite. How is that quip transphobic, let alone unacceptable?

Basically it's easily viewed as a shot at trans people. Basically talking about strong woman leads and not having male genitalia. Since not all trans people go in for gender reassignment surgery, it can be seen as a joke at the expense of trans people. Even if he didn't mean it that way that's how I saw it, as did a bunch of other transwomen apparently. If he didn't mean it that way, a clarification wouldn't be amiss.

The way I saw it was "Make a strong character who isn't a dude". When it comes to things like Twitter jokes I tend not lash out and accuse people of malice. It's hard to put much tone and nuance into tweets, so it's easy for jokes to feel different than they are supposed to. People are too quick to assume malice or insensitivity into things that were clearly off the cuff comments meant to be quick humorous quips. One can chalk this up to the author not being clear, I put as much onus on the audience to not fly off the handle at the slightest notion of something that could potentially mean something they don't like.

As for Joss being chased off Twitter, the whole situation is appalling. Joss has constantly been a champion for feminism, featuring strong female characters, and the one time he makes a woman who might has some tropes in a movie suddenly is a monster. having seen Age of Ultron, people are making a massive fucking volcano out of a molehill. The rape joke was Tony Stark making a quip saying that he would enact Prima Nocta if he could lift Mjolnir. A misogynistic character making such a joke is not the author supporting rape, it's the character making an off color joke in-character. Surely we've all made racy jokes around friends before, doesn't mean we support rape. The stuff with Black Widow is dramatically overblown as well.

Spoiler

Her comment about being a monster isn't solely about being sterilized. It's that her body was mutilated to help hone her into a more focused, efficient killing machine. That was she raised to be a murderer. You have to take into context what she said and what the flashbacks showed, not just the words at face value. As for her getting kidnapped, she also helped engineer her escape by getting the message out to the Avengers giving her location. A character, even female, getting captured and needing help doesn't suddenly make her weak. We've had 3 movies where she's been shown to be incredibly competent, this is not worth the amount of outrage this is getting. It's like people want her to be a Mary Sue, totally being more amazing than the boys, and when she needs help/has flaws suddenly she's a trash character

The amount of outrage being spurred is absolutely absurd. What has happened to people these days? You cannot say anything without offending someone, and rather than just being offended a scene has to be made. Anyone who says something "offensive" becomes a pariah to be bombarded with hate. It's like people look to be outraged so they can band together and scream. The so called "social justice warriors" are becoming more vile than the things they claim to fight. Patton Oswalt called them the liberal version of the Tea Party, and he hit the nail on the head.

 

[rcs619]

I think the real issue here is the lack of super-powered females in the Avengers franchise.

I like Black Widow, don't get me wrong. She was great in Iron Man 2, Winter Soldier and the first Avengers movie, but it's getting to the point where she's just, running out of things to do. At the end of the day, her and Hawkeye are still just supremely lethal (but very much human) killing machines. They're amazing at fighting other humans, but it's getting harder and harder to have them participate in the main battles. In Age of Ultron they were both kind of relegated to evac'ing civilians while the people with super-powers did the bulk of the major combat.

Even in other movies, not a lot of truly super females. Even Gamora from Guardians is pretty much just a supremely-trained (slightly cybernetically-enhanced) elite soldier. She isn't *really* a superhero. Nowhere on the same league as the big names. I think the closest we've seen a woman come to super-level power has been Lady Syph, and even she's had very, very little to do.

Scarlet Witch is a good first step, since it seems like she's going to be a primary member of the new team. But, it would be nice to bring in more properly-super female heroes. All the build-up to Antman, and the only thing I keep wondering is where the hell is Wasp? Wasp, or Giant Girl, or whatever form she takes is tons of fun and her power-set lets you do all sorts of potentially cool things. With Marvel finally re-acquiring Spider-Man (sort of), it'd be kind of cool to bring in Giant Girl, considering what a fun relationship they've had in the comics.

There's always Squirrel Girl too. I know she's a joke character, but still

 

[dreng3]

I'll bite. How is that quip transphobic, let alone unacceptable?

Basically it's easily viewed as a shot at trans people. Basically talking about strong woman leads and not having male genitalia. Since not all trans people go in for gender reassignment surgery, it can be seen as a joke at the expense of trans people. Even if he didn't mean it that way that's how I saw it, as did a bunch of other transwomen apparently. If he didn't mean it that way, a clarification wouldn't be amiss.

This is by no means meant to be a shot at you, because even though I disagree with pretty much every single post of yours I approve of you explaining your viewpoints without excessive hyperbole or snark, except for an instance or two but that's to be expected. That aside; this is everything wrong with the transrights movement and modern feminism. The immediate assumption that everything is said with the intention of offending someone, that we should always seek out the explanation that makes someone the victim. I personally believe that we should be careful with our words, words are, in my opinion, one of the strongest tools we posses, and so they should be used with care. At this point we have, however, moved beyond the mere care for the use of words or intent, we've become mired in the idea that we should apply Hanlon's Razor in reverse, we should assume malice, even if stupidity was an easier explanation.
My problem isn't with anyone wanting additional protection under the law, easier access to medical and/or psychological treatment, I care nothing for those who desire perfect equality, what I cannot stand are those who lives in a constant stage of outrage, and not justified outrage for we've all tried that, but rather those who takes insult at any little line.
Did Whedon say something stupid? Heck if I know, I even chuckled slightly, but if you take offense you might try and assume that he made a mistake instead of a direct attack.

Edit:
Just realized that this might have been taken the wrong way, though I stated that this was what was wrong with the transrights movement and modern feminism it is also what is wrong with many other movements, perhaps even most of modern society, assuming malice.

 

[Bat Vader]

Why delete the Twitter account? Wouldn't setting it to private do just the same thing and allow him to stay on Twitter?