Joss Whedon deletes twitter account following mass of feminist criticism

[StatusNil]

The SJW's turn on anyone who doesn't do exactly what they like, regardless of his past support, regardless of his experience and talent in the area which they do not possess, and they attack him. They always do.

I must take issue with this characterization. Even a casual perusal of SocJus Warfare shows that they attack plenty of "hers" as well. All it takes is slipping from lockstep on the March of Progress.

OT: Too bad all those blockbots are maintained by the very same horde who have now grown displeased with Mr. Whedon, eh? "Why haven't the REASONABLE people built up an arsenal of tools of censorious zealotry, u gaiz?!"

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I'll bite. How is that quip transphobic, let alone unacceptable?

Basically it's easily viewed as a shot at trans people. Basically talking about strong woman leads and not having male genitalia. Since not all trans people go in for gender reassignment surgery, it can be seen as a joke at the expense of trans people. Even if he didn't mean it that way that's how I saw it, as did a bunch of other transwomen apparently. If he didn't mean it that way, a clarification wouldn't be amiss.

This is by no means meant to be a shot at you, because even though I disagree with pretty much every single post of yours I approve of you explaining your viewpoints without excessive hyperbole or snark, except for an instance or two but that's to be expected. That aside; this is everything wrong with the transrights movement and modern feminism. The immediate assumption that everything is said with the intention of offending someone, that we should always seek out the explanation that makes someone the victim. I personally believe that we should be careful with our words, words are, in my opinion, one of the strongest tools we posses, and so they should be used with care. At this point we have, however, moved beyond the mere care for the use of words or intent, we've become mired in the idea that we should apply Hanlon's Razor in reverse, we should assume malice, even if stupidity was an easier explanation.
My problem isn't with anyone wanting additional protection under the law, easier access to medical and/or psychological treatment, I care nothing for those who desire perfect equality, what I cannot stand are those who lives in a constant stage of outrage, and not justified outrage for we've all tried that, but rather those who takes insult at any little line.
Did Whedon say something stupid? Heck if I know, I even chuckled slightly, but if you take offense you might try and assume that he made a mistake instead of a direct attack.

To be honest in these situations emotions come in first, rationality second, especially where trans people are concerned, and especially on the internet. Now just because something might offend me or my sensibilities on a personal level, that doesn't mean I want to take someone's right to free speech away. Just if something strikes me as offensive then I'm not going to be quiet about it, I have the right to free speech too. On sensitive issues, especially ones related to transgenderism, I'm going to be on the defensive side more often than not, because it's hard enough being myself on a daily basis. I should not be expected to put up with any extra crap someone said out of stupidity. I'm willing to give Joss Whedon the benefit of the doubt, doesn't mean that it didn't strike a perpetually raw nerve for me though.

I don't expect people to just shut up when they offend someone. They have the right to say things as offensive as they want, so long as they're not threatening people, or inciting riots. I don't particularly take the overtly victimized stance so much as over what people say. That being said, one thing that turns me nearly blue in the face, is when people tell me that because I'm offended that I should shut up. I have a perfect right to take exception with something I feel is offensive, as anyone else does. I'm also offended by people who demand censorship every time they're offended.

I said earlier that I'm willing to give Whedon the benefit of the doubt, it still poked me in a bad spot personally. You never know what someone's line is potentially. To me often enough I'll let things go, but damn if the same line doesn't come up constantly to my mind, and a lot of things are excused for poor reasons. This is especially true to me where the trans community is concerned. That aside I don't want people censored, but if they're gonna stand by something that someone was offened by, they shouldn't demand people "get over it." Like wise make weak excuses and justifications to try to invalidate the feelings of someone else on the matter, that's not gonna make you any friends.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Wait...wasn't Whedon, and Oswalt for that matter, quite open in his disdain for #GG?

Christ. There's no winning here is there?

Don't play. For fuck sakes, don't play.

 

[Revolutionary]

All I can do is be amused that joss was doing his best to make nice with these extremists. Oh dear he should have known there's no pleasing those people.

 

[rcs619]

Wait...wasn't Whedon, and Oswalt for that matter, quite open in his disdain for #GG?

Christ. There's no winning here is there?

Don't play. For fuck sakes, don't play.

Pretty much. It's just a thing that these loony fringe people do though. They get so upset that they start eating their own, or lash out against people who may share sympathetic views here and there. The red pillers, MRA types, social-conservatives and white supremacists that make up Gamersgate's extreme far fringe are always fighting with each other too. Any perceived weakness, any deviation from the most extreme positions and they start trying to eat each other to prove who's the most crazy. It's actually pretty amusing sometimes, given how terrible a lot of those people are

At the end of the day though, this whole thing is pretty much a non-issue. It's a bunch of nobodies firing off complaints at a multimillionaire, in regards to the eleventh movie in a multibillion dollar mass media franchise that already has about eleven more movies planned out. Joss Wheden is going to be perfectly fine. Marvel is going to be just fine, and the Avengers are going to keep on going fine too. It's one big non-issue, or it would have been if Wheden would have handled it a little better.

Hopefully this whole mess can at least get us talking about the need for more female supers in the MCU though. Heroines who aren't just elite soldiers who will wind up relegated to the sidelines while the demi-gods go to work fighting the baddies. Scarlet Witch is a good start, but it would be nice to see some of the other properly-super women who also inhabit the setting. I want to see Wasp/Giant Girl turn up so bad D: She's so much fun, and her powers could make for all kinds of really cool set-pieces. She also had a fun relationship with Spider-Man, who marvel kind of sort of owns again, sorta.

 

[VoidWanderer]

'Political Correctness' has no meaning when there are so many variations of political views.

 

[dreng3]

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To be honest in these situations emotions come in first, rationality second, especially where trans people are concerned, and especially on the internet. Now just because something might offend me or my sensibilities on a personal level, that doesn't mean I want to take someone's right to free speech away. Just if something strikes me as offensive then I'm not going to be quiet about it, I have the right to free speech too. On sensitive issues, especially ones related to transgenderism, I'm going to be on the defensive side more often than not, because it's hard enough being myself on a daily basis. I should not be expected to put up with any extra crap someone said out of stupidity. I'm willing to give Joss Whedon the benefit of the doubt, doesn't mean that it didn't strike a perpetually raw nerve for me though.

I don't expect people to just shut up when they offend someone. They have the right to say things as offensive as they want, so long as they're not threatening people, or inciting riots. I don't particularly take the overtly victimized stance so much as over what people say. That being said, one thing that turns me nearly blue in the face, is when people tell me that because I'm offended that I should shut up. I have a perfect right to take exception with something I feel is offensive, as anyone else does. I'm also offended by people who demand censorship every time they're offended.

I said earlier that I'm willing to give Whedon the benefit of the doubt, it still poked me in a bad spot personally. You never know what someone's line is potentially. To me often enough I'll let things go, but damn if the same line doesn't come up constantly to my mind, and a lot of things are excused for poor reasons. This is especially true to me where the trans community is concerned. That aside I don't want people censored, but if they're gonna stand by something that someone was offend by, they shouldn't demand people "get over it." Like wise make weak excuses and justifications to try to invalidate the feelings of someone else on the matter, that's not gonna make you any friends.

Again, this wasn't an attack on you, I merely found your statement to be an excellent example of something I consider an ill plaguing modern society.
I don't want to take freedom of speech from anyone, not even the worst people I can imagine, and believe you me, I can imagine quite a lot. I realize that most of these issues are sensitive, and that yes, emotions do come into play, however I don't think that this is an appropriate excuse for rashly claiming neither transphobia, misogyny, or misandry, in the extreme anything can be justified with emotion, but isn't our ability to detach emotion from an issue one of our greatest strengths as humans?
Now, I argue rather fervently in favour of assuming stupidity rather than malice, but truth be told, I could accept the alternative, if, and this is a big if, it was applied equally across the board, feminists, egalitarians, transpeople, basically anyone, should be ready, willing, and even obligated to call each other on perceived insults.

 

[jklinders]

Well this whole thing reminds me of the tale of the Scorpion and the Turtle. the scorpion stings the turtle halfway across the river when he is helping him across and the turtle asks "why did you do that, now we will both die?" "It is my nature."

the tumbler crowd regardless of their politics are a seething mass of echo chamber fueled hate of anything that does not toe their line. This is going to hurt them. Joss will not stop being a feminist I am certain. I do think he will evaluate what he says better. Maybe he will even know now that not everyone who the tumbler crowd goes after deserves it.

 

[Souther Thorn]

I wish Movie Bob was still around just to see how the fuck he'd spin this one.

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I'm confused, what aspect of her character is being criticized?

For what it's worth, this is from Matt Zoller Seitz's review of Ultron:

The film will do nothing to quell complaints that the superhero genre is sexist: Black Widow is involved in yet another relationship with a male Avenger and burdened with a tragic backstory equating motherhood with womanly fulfillment, and while Scarlet Witch has some pleasingly Carrie-like rampages, she isn't given enough to do.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/avengers-age-of-ultron-2015

I keep track of his youtube and twitter just to see when he's going to pitch a thrombo, and nothing yet.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

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Again, this wasn't an attack on you, I merely found your statement to be an excellent example of something I consider an ill plaguing modern society.
I don't want to take freedom of speech from anyone, not even the worst people I can imagine, and believe you me, I can imagine quite a lot. I realize that most of these issues are sensitive, and that yes, emotions do come into play, however I don't think that this is an appropriate excuse for rashly claiming neither transphobia, misogyny, or misandry, in the extreme anything can be justified with emotion, but isn't our ability to detach emotion from an issue one of our greatest strengths as humans?
Now, I argue rather fervently in favour of assuming stupidity rather than malice, but truth be told, I could accept the alternative, if, and this is a big if, it was applied equally across the board, feminists, egalitarians, transpeople, basically anyone, should be ready, willing, and even obligated to call each other on perceived insults.

I use transphobia more as an example of people not understanding the group, thus being fearful of it, and by extension doing things that, as innocent as they may seem, are still a bit harmful on the whole. In all honesty people who use transphobia, misogyny, misandray, racisim, hompphobia, and etc... To shut down arguments are the ones we need to be truly wary of. When I think something is used in such a manner I'll call it as I see it, even if it was the result of idiocy, or being stupid. Not all such things are done in malice. That still isn't a free pass.

 

[dreng3]

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I use transphobia more as an example of people not understanding the group, thus being fearful of it, and by extension doing things that, as innocent as they may seem, are still a bit harmful on the whole. In all honesty people who use transphobia, misogyny, misandray, racisim, hompphobia, and etc... To shut down arguments are the ones we need to be truly wary of. When I think something is used in such a manner I'll call it as I see it, even if it was the result of idiocy, or being stupid. Not all such things are done in malice. That still isn't a free pass.

But shouldn't we give everyone the benefit of the doubt? Are we really ready to go so far as to risk condemning someone in the court of public opinion because they didn't, or couldn't, consider every aspect of their statement? How likely is it truly that Joss Whedon wanted to offend transpeople? This is not me saying that people should grow thicker skin, or dismissing everything that has, and undoubtedly will, happen to any group, it is a suggestion that we consider both intent and implication. Was there truly any reason to call for the blood of Whedon (dibs on that as a bandname) because he made a stupid remark? Could we not simply ask "I think your statement regarding the genitals of female character were a bit ambiguous, would you care to elaborate?" would that not be better than flying into a rage and threaten a mans life? I think, because you seem a decent person, that we can agree to that. Offense is fine and well, but we need to direct our offense, we need the facts, we cannot simply declare "Whedon has weapons of mass destruction(or weapons of mass offensiveness as it may be)"(a tad inappropriate but I'm exaggerating for effect) and go for the throat.

 

[Random Gamer]

Wait...wasn't Whedon, and Oswalt for that matter, quite open in his disdain for #GG?

Christ. There's no winning here is there?

Oh, there is. And this is what it looks like - at the beginning, when you when you just start winning small.
Of course, winning big would be far more spectacular, but you have to be patient

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Life isn't a Saturday morning cartoon, some feminists acting like pricks on Twitter doesn't automatically make their opponents the good guys.

OT: Probably best to hold back until an official statement comes from the man himself, this is the Internet, he could have deleted his twitter next week and we'd be blaming a different outrage of the day. These things know no political boundaries, a twitter mob is a twitter mob.

Wholly and entirely agreed on both points.

I think the thread title could be alarmingly irresponsible, given that Joss hasn't given his reasons at all. I object to the inference that any criticism from a feminist perspective is somehow without value - "mass of feminist criticism" seems rather clickbait emotive, given how poorly the term and [broad] ideology is understood by most people (it seems).

As for why Joss isn't on Twitter anymore? Until he says, I'm not going to react, no matter what Patton may say. I'm guessing it's a combination of factors. Hell, it could have more to do with his seemingly increasingly contrary position with Marvel Studios.

 

[The Bucket]

I wish Movie Bob was still around just to see how the fuck he'd spin this one.

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I'm confused, what aspect of her character is being criticized?

For what it's worth, this is from Matt Zoller Seitz's review of Ultron:

The film will do nothing to quell complaints that the superhero genre is sexist: Black Widow is involved in yet another relationship with a male Avenger and burdened with a tragic backstory equating motherhood with womanly fulfillment, and while Scarlet Witch has some pleasingly Carrie-like rampages, she isn't given enough to do.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/avengers-age-of-ultron-2015

He's given his opinion on Twitter
http://imgur.com/dGvmixB
Turns out all those accounts with thousands of tweets slamming Whedon are elaborately constructed GG channer sockpuppets, because at this point there is nothing you cant assuage your own doubts by blaming them with.

 

[Zontar]

Twitter is just a pile of hot garbage and needs to die already.

One thing that confuses me about Twitter is how that hasn't already happened. Not because of the quality if its content, but because it has never had a profitable quarter. How the hell are they still in business?

 

[Casual Shinji]

This is why you don't go on Twitter, people.

I could blame the assholes, but what are they gonna do... not be assholes?! I mean, come on.

 

[Zontar]

He's given his opinion on Twitter
http://imgur.com/dGvmixB
Turns out all those accounts with thousands of tweets slamming Whedon are elaborately constructed GG channer sockpuppets, because at this point there is nothing you cant assuage your own doubts by blaming them with.

Wow, "never trust something channer scum are happy about"?

I mean, I know he's probably still upset about loosing his job, and that in some cases that statement could be applied (I rue the day /pol/ gets that clone of the fuhrer to reach maturation) but never? I guess he must not be very familiar with the chans, because they absolutely loved Age of Ultron.

 

[Zontar]

This is why you don't go on Twitter, people.

I could blame the assholes, but what are they gonna do... not be assholes?! I mean, come on.

As a card-carrying asshole I take offence to the comparison to these people. Being an asshole is an art, a master craft which takes years of careful development to truly achieve.