JRPGs... and how to fix them

[inpachi]

I have played Oblivion and HATED IT! I have played some of Blizzards games like Diablo and stuff.. I could stand it to a point.. And name a few Bioware games i cant think of any off the top of my head..

I hated Oblivion too, i call bethesda game exploration game not RPG
Diablo is an Hack and slahs not a RPG eighter
Bioware RPG:
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 (Not Baldur's Gate Allliance, they arent RPG eighter and not made by Bioware)
NEverWinter Night's
Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic
Jade Empire
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Dragon Age Origins

I liked Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate 1 i have it on the ps2 haha! Haven't played the rest..

 

[Ultress]

I adore JRPGs but they have a couple things thay could fix

A fully explorable world map, not this select locations from a list bull-crap.Tales of Vesperia had a great world map that helped the game fell less linear. It's fun to go around finding new locations you shouldn't be finding and getting cool items.

Also if you absolutely want to have random encounters implement a system where you can avoid them. Otherwise making the enemy encounters visible ala Tales of or Persona 3/4.

NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOO!!!! maybe its because i have never played ANY good Free Roaming JRPG.. and the only good JRPGS i have ever played were FF6 and 9.. Golden sun.. I doubt thats a JRPG tho.. Just barely are you able to classify it by that.. It reminds me more of zelda than a Jrpg.. BUT ANYWAYS NOO NO NO NO NONO NONONONONONONONONONN NOOOOOOO!

Just to clarify my self I want to go back to the traditional world map like FF6 not the map like Last Remnant where I'm choosing locations off a list.Also a simple no would suffice,no need for the dramatics.

 

[wolfy098]

I love JRPGs to death, but they're just so generic, I[Capitals] mistook one game for another, (Lost Odyssey + Last Remnant,)

no one really cared(Comma here?) for one JRPG(or "as it" or "as they are") is very similar to another, and those mistakes happen frequently.
[WTF are you trying to say there?]

What are someways that they could make them better.

In my oppinion(one p) they just need less cliche storylines

Spoiler: this happens everywhere

A new and innovative battle system that doesn't break the flow (of the game)gaming

Spoiler

You have no idea how hard that is

,
more realistic social and building structures and people with normal reactions (less melodrama)

Spoiler

Then go talk to people, Or play a WRPG, the games aren't meant to have "normal" relationships

getting pissed if you steal their shit, maybe some more freedom, if you give me a Continent i want to see it. (but not the WRPG / MMO sized.)

Spoiler

this is more of a WRPG style of game

Oh and i want to dress normally, unless at some point in history that was a fashion trend, i don't think 7 belts, 12 ribbons and more lace than a dominatrix is a realistic clothing choice.

Spoiler

They aren't meant to be normal, which game lets you wear that much lace anyway!
Also real styles of clothing are more of a WRPG thing most JRPG's are Fantasy games so the weird clothes are to be expected

So what do you think they should do to fix JRPGs... without turning it into a WRPG.

Spoiler

The points you have just mentioned make me firmly believe you're actually a WRPG fan who thinks he's into JRPG's instead...

 

[Talvrae]

I have played Oblivion and HATED IT! I have played some of Blizzards games like Diablo and stuff.. I could stand it to a point.. And name a few Bioware games i cant think of any off the top of my head..

I hated Oblivion too, i call bethesda game exploration game not RPG
Diablo is an Hack and slahs not a RPG eighter
Bioware RPG:
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 (Not Baldur's Gate Allliance, they arent RPG eighter and not made by Bioware)
NEverWinter Night's
Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic
Jade Empire
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Dragon Age Origins

I liked Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate 1 i have it on the ps2 haha! Haven't played the rest..

Baldur's Gate on PS2 is Baldur'S Gate Alliance, it wasnt made by Bioware and is an Hack & Slash

 

[Hunter.Wolf]

I love JRPGs to death, but they're just so generic, i mistook one game for another (Lost Odyssey + Last Remnant,) and no one really cared for one JRPG is very similar to another, and those mistakes happen frequently.

What are someways that they could make them better.

In my oppinion they just need less cliche storylines, a new and innovative battle system that doesn't break the flow gaming, more realistic social and building structures and people with normal reactions (less melodrama) and getting pissed if you steal their shit, maybe some more freedom, if you give me a Continent i want to see it. (but not the WRPG / MMO sized.) Oh and i want to dress normally, unless at some point in history that was a fashion trend, i don't think 7 belts, 12 ribbons and more lace than a dominatrix is a realistic clothing choice.

So what do you think they should do to fix JRPGs... without turning it into a WRPG.

Like many have said, they don't need fixing ... specially the things you mentioned, you probably need to be playing a different genre .. specially if you can't spot the differences between different JRPG games .. that a sign this genre isn't for you.

As for being generic ... WRPG are equally generic ... but no one is complaining ... and yeah .. i'm not that much into WRPGs (eventhough i did enjoy Mass Effect because of the Sci-Fi theme and the fact that combat is action-oriented).

To show what i mean here are some of my fav JRPGs.

-Final Fantasy 8 (Along with most of the Final Fantasy series)
-Final Fantasy Tactics
-Vagrant Story
-Persona
-Kingdom Hearts
-Star Ocean: Till the end of time
-Front Mission
-Chrono Trigger/Cross
-Odin Sphere
-Disgaea
-Radiata Stories
-Valkyria Chronicles
-Demon's Souls

None of them is generic or alike in my eyes .. each and everyone of them represents a different style of JRPG and very fresh experience.

Each one has different mechanics, different approach to story telling and varied casts of characters .. but naturally they all must also share some mechanics and themes since they are all JRPGs .. that's not being generic .. that's being in a "genre" .. it's like people one day start complaining that action movies involve action or murder mysteries involve a murder case .. if you don't like somethings about a "genre" then like i said above ... then it might not be for you.

I adore JRPGs but they have a couple things that if they changed I wouldn't complaing.

A fully explorable world map, not this select locations from a list bull-crap.Tales of Vesperia had a great world map that helped the game fell less linear. It's fun to go around finding new locations you shouldn't be finding and getting cool items.

Also if you absolutely want to have random encounters implement a system where you can avoid them. Otherwise making the enemy encounters visible ala Tales of or Persona 3/4.

Wow, were have you been ... Full world maps has been done to death in the past generation of RPGs (FF7, FF8, FF9) and many other JRPGs on the PS2 ... before developers realized that this FAKE sense of freedom dilutes the experience and makes players wander aimlessly for hours .. that's why most RPGs nowadays opt for a more streamlined approach .. you still get side-quests and exploration but in a more directed way .. don't get me wrong .. i like exploration too but i do think it's better to streamline things (because creating a huge world map that actually has lots of things to do and explore can be very taxing in this generation .. they almost always end up too empty and bland).

As for exploration ... i'm enjoying how Demon's Souls did it ... although it is a hybrid between JRPGs and WRPGs and action games it still retains a great sense of exploration that doesn't dilute the experience (by making you wander aimlessly) and rewards those who dare venture into uncharted places.

As for random encounters .. they are something of the past .. most JRPG have ditched them in favor of allowing you to choose when to fight and when not to (Chrono Cross was a one of the first JRPGs to do this)

Just dont have the same character archetypes over and over again in every game. Add something different, ANYTHING different.

WRPGs are littered with Stereotypes too .. even more than JRPGs ... but whatever .. character arctypes appearing in more than one JRPG is natural cause they share the same themes and origins ... want something different maybe go play another genre until you get bored of its stereotypes then come back to JRPGs latter ... or maybe you just don't seem to have played enough JRPG .. go seek some of the under-appreciated but impressive RPGs like (Vagrant Story) or (Final Fantasy Tactics).

 

[More Fun To Compute]

As for being generic ... WRPG are equally generic ... but no one is complaining ...

I should start a new thread every week complaining how WRPGs are broken and how they are stale and uninspiring. I'm sure that would go down well. (but I could probably do it for a month or two without bullshitting)

 

[Mushroomfreak111]

Oh and i want to dress normally, unless at some point in history that was a fashion trend, i don't think 7 belts, 12 ribbons and more lace than a dominatrix is a realistic clothing choice.

I get that your overdoing it to make a point, so I'll just scale it down in my mind^^. That kind of clothing is quite popular in Japan (and slowly getting more popular in the rest of the world too). Depending on exactly what you are thinking of it could have a number of names tho, but let me just say i adore that clothing style! The hairdues tend to be overdone, and some outfits take it too far, but mostly i like those outfits (especially ribbons!) and I'm glad I get games with them =3

If you look in anime/manga you'll find stereotype characters and one of the many standard plots, no doubt! But if you then take a look at any western series/movies and such you'll see the same. It's like that with games. All games follow a certain stereotype (granted, there is the ocational breakout, and we love them for it), it's the slight variation that make games unique from each other.

This said, I'm not a huge JRPG fan, I just like the clothes and anime =3. TES IV: Oblivion is my favorite game...

 

[Ultress]

I adore JRPGs but they have a couple things that if they changed I wouldn't complaing.

A fully explorable world map, not this select locations from a list bull-crap.Tales of Vesperia had a great world map that helped the game fell less linear. It's fun to go around finding new locations you shouldn't be finding and getting cool items.

Also if you absolutely want to have random encounters implement a system where you can avoid them. Otherwise making the enemy encounters visible ala Tales of or Persona 3/4.

Wow, were have you been ... Full world maps has been done to death in the past generation of RPGs (FF7, FF8, FF9) and many other JRPGs on the PS2 ... before developers realized that this FAKE sense of freedom dilutes the experience and makes players wander aimlessly for hours .. that's why most RPGs nowadays opt for a more streamlined approach .. you still get side-quests and exploration but in a more directed way .. don't get me wrong .. i like exploration too but i do think it's better to streamline things (because creating a huge world map that actually has lots of things to do and explore can be very taxing in this generation .. they almost always end up too empty and bland).

As for exploration ... i'm enjoying how Demon's Souls did it ... although it is a hybrid between JRPGs and WRPGs and action games it still retains a great sense of exploration that doesn't dilute the experience (by making you wander aimlessly) and rewards those who dare venture into uncharted places.

As for random encounters .. they are something of the past .. most JRPG have ditched them in favor of allowing you to choose when to fight and when not to (Chrono Cross was a one of the first JRPGs to do this)

I'm saying on the map part that I enjoy that "FAKE" sense of freedom that was so common in older JRPGs. The whole select a location thing just bugs me but maybe I just need to get over it.

Also a good number of JRPGs have ditched random encounters as you said but a good few haven't such as Lost Odyssey and Enchanted Arms.

 

[Talvrae]

cheack it out by the way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbwTnQxOoLs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHdgeG09sw&feature=response_watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91-IPTIKdBg&feature=response_watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiR3mtetfc&feature=response_watch

 

[antigodoflife]

In my opinion they just need less cliche storylines, a new and innovative battle system that doesn't break the flow gaming

In other words, you don't want to play a JRPG? Well that's easy - don't. Problem solved.

more realistic social and building structures

Almost all JRPG's have futuristic elements in them. What? Sid's flying ship is too unrealistic for you? Unless you can provide a good reason as to why a fantasy game(usually with demons and dragons, mind you) needs to be realistic in any way, then you need to just accept it and move on.

if you give me a Continent i want to see it.

I can agree with this. However, I do like travel points. Don't make a game 80+ hours if 20 of them are spent running across the fields.

Oh and i want to dress normally, unless at some point in history that was a fashion trend, i don't think 7 belts, 12 ribbons and more lace than a dominatrix is a realistic clothing choice.

So what do you think they should do to fix JRPGs... without turning it into a WRPG.

So, to recap what you just said, you don't like dressing in Japanese-styled clothing and you want to wear western clothes, AND you do not want your JRPG to be like a WRPG. I'm sorry, I am a little confused at this one. That's like saying you want Halo to be an FPS with an over-the-shoulder camera and only driving missions. Main point here is if you like JRPG's, then you like turn-based combat, big boobs, blue hair, and strange fantasy worlds. If you prefer castles, so-called realism(still with dragons though...), and hack-and-slash combat, then you like WRPG's. Don't try to mix and match, they are separate for a reason, so let's leave them that way.

1.) No, I want to play JRPGs, I enjoy them and their stories, but when the amnesiac is sent as the chosen one to stop the gods destroying the world for the 15th time, it becomes a bit lackluster and well, monotonous and I want to see some variety once in a while.

For starters it's Cid, and secondly i like their steam punk alternate reality like all JRG fans, I accept the fantasy in them and the monsters, demons, aliens, magicians what have you, to go with it, I just don't like the whole one inn, one pub, one shop (to later become 3 venders and a shop) and everyone accepting the fact you stole their 2000gcs (game currencies.)

3.) This is the only part in WRPGs I like to be honest, I?d just like to be able to go off story for a while and have a look around, I reckon a JRPG would be perfect for the CryEngine, just so you can look at the pretty scenery that really only ever gets noticed during the CGI cinematic.

4.)No, some JRPGs have a good idea of clothing, the majority just goes over the top (this part is really more nit picking than anything) but I would love to see a town where the women wore clothes similar to Yuna from FFX... I never said I wanted my JRPG to wear clothes of a WRPG, i would like them to wear more Japanese traditional clothing, or Arabic traditional clothing for more desert areas, or some mermaid or Hawaiian get up for the beachy areas, etc. And maybe realistic sized boobs would make me like female JRPG charaters a little more, as well as a decent voice.



@wolfy098 - nice video, i laughed and agreed a lot.

 

[outcast_within]

Stop fixing shit that ain't broke. Lost oddessey, eternal sonata, Last remnant. All games i enjoyed. If you want to play w-rpg go play those.

 

[Stabby Joe]

I think its the style mainly, its far too repetitive. The protagonist is a she-boy, with a group made up on girly girl, manly girl, manly man, cyborg or anthropomorphic creature out to save the world from giant evil knight who's probably working for even bigger evil Lovecraft rip off.

And they all look like reject animes.

 

[antigodoflife]

I adore JRPGs but they have a couple things that if they changed I wouldn't complaing.

A fully explorable world map, not this select locations from a list bull-crap.Tales of Vesperia had a great world map that helped the game fell less linear. It's fun to go around finding new locations you shouldn't be finding and getting cool items.

Also if you absolutely want to have random encounters implement a system where you can avoid them. Otherwise making the enemy encounters visible ala Tales of or Persona 3/4.

Wow, were have you been ... Full world maps has been done to death in the past generation of RPGs (FF7, FF8, FF9) and many other JRPGs on the PS2 ... before developers realized that this FAKE sense of freedom dilutes the experience and makes players wander aimlessly for hours .. that's why most RPGs nowadays opt for a more streamlined approach .. you still get side-quests and exploration but in a more directed way .. don't get me wrong .. i like exploration too but i do think it's better to streamline things (because creating a huge world map that actually has lots of things to do and explore can be very taxing in this generation .. they almost always end up too empty and bland).

As for exploration ... i'm enjoying how Demon's Souls did it ... although it is a hybrid between JRPGs and WRPGs and action games it still retains a great sense of exploration that doesn't dilute the experience (by making you wander aimlessly) and rewards those who dare venture into uncharted places.

As for random encounters .. they are something of the past .. most JRPG have ditched them in favor of allowing you to choose when to fight and when not to (Chrono Cross was a one of the first JRPGs to do this)

I'm saying on the map part that I enjoy that "FAKE" sense of freedom that was so common in older JRPGs. The whole select a location thing just bugs me but maybe I just need to get over it.

Also a good number of JRPGs have ditched random encounters as you said but a good few haven't such as Lost Odyssey and Enchanted Arms.

Yeah i don't mean 'World Maps' like Final Fantasy did it for their first 9 chapters, i mean like -cringes- Fallout 3, Sacred did it well by utting side quests EVERYWHERE, so you're more eager to look around random places, and the horribly names Demon's Souls sound like they did a good job as well.

As for fighting, I don't like being sent to a battle field to fight (either random battle or run into the enemy to begin the fight,) i think the only games to this well are the Baton Kaitos games, I do enjoy Zelda's technique and I would like to see it done with strategy (to make it JRPG - need skills and spells etc), and numbers, kind of going into Dragon Age territory but a little more behind the shoulder view. I also enjoyed the battalions of Last Remnant, but I don?t think LR fully captured the kinds of strategy they could of done, and RTS-esque separation would have been pretty helpful to get those flanks and rear attacks into gear.

Lost Odyssey is somehow after all i've written one of my all time favourite games mainly because of the story, although cliched, strangely paced (can't shop til disc 2), and melodramatically acted, as for Enchanted Arms, it's one of the worst games i've ever played. Tales - although i'm not a fan of the graphics - are a fantastic series.

 

[rdaleric]

They don't need fixing. Well, aside from stuff like this:


I hate it when my JRPGs get preachy, teaching me life lessons.

This. I'm sick of vaguely hippy-ish "people of the world unite" crap.

although Unskippable would not be as good without the overlong cinematics with tortured metaphores

 

[persona J]

here's an idea, get them to stop changing them, eveerytime they try they get worse, keep the turnbased battle sytem and leave the real time action for the action games.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

They don't need fixing. Well, aside from stuff like this:


I hate it when my JRPGs get preachy, teaching me life lessons.

This. I'm sick of vaguely hippy-ish "people of the world unite" crap.

although Unskippable would not be as good without the overlong cinematics with tortured metaphores

Just so you know. I chose THE WORST OFFENDER with that video. Eternal Sonata is the pinnacle of the shit mountain in terms of faux-philosophical bullshit. I mean, just listen to those people in the credits.

But I still like Lost Odyssey AS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF STORYTELLING (Fuck off, Bioware and Valve) for this:

 

[Plurralbles]

wow, I never realized how similar they are to someone who's never played it but as someone who hasn't, I can see how it's really easy to confuse the two.

But hte problem is, is that JRPG's and any genre at all, can't be "fixed".

Some games justdo things better and accomplish something great. A "fixed" JRPG wouldn't be a JRPG at all to a lot of people.

I just imagined an idea getting its balls snipped. ("fixed")

 

[kiwisushi]

there is only one change I want to see, more developed onto the next gen consoles. I am tired of looking at my 60mm square dual screens to play them! I'm not sure if it is just PAL region getting hardly any or what.

 

[Amnestic]

Hey, while we're talking about cliche, why don't we look at Bioware, one of (if not the) the biggest WRPG games designers ever?

Spoiler

Yeah. No cliché's in this genre. No sir.

Edit: Spoiler tags are shrinking it. Right Click->View Image for readable image.