JRPGs... and how to fix them

[Hunter.Wolf]

1.) No, I want to play JRPGs, I enjoy them and their stories, but when the amnesiac is sent as the chosen one to stop the gods destroying the world for the 15th time, it becomes a bit lackluster and well, monotonous and I want to see some variety once in a while.

For starters it's Cid, and secondly i like their steam punk alternate reality like all JRG fans, I accept the fantasy in them and the monsters, demons, aliens, magicians what have you, to go with it, I just don't like the whole one inn, one pub, one shop (to later become 3 venders and a shop) and everyone accepting the fact you stole their 2000gcs (game currencies.)

3.) This is the only part in WRPGs I like to be honest, I?d just like to be able to go off story for a while and have a look around, I reckon a JRPG would be perfect for the CryEngine, just so you can look at the pretty scenery that really only ever gets noticed during the CGI cinematic.

4.)No, some JRPGs have a good idea of clothing, the majority just goes over the top (this part is really more nit picking than anything) but I would love to see a town where the women wore clothes similar to Yuna from FFX... I never said I wanted my JRPG to wear clothes of a WRPG, i would like them to wear more Japanese traditional clothing, or Arabic traditional clothing for more desert areas, or some mermaid or Hawaiian get up for the beachy areas, etc. And maybe realistic sized boobs would make me like female JRPG charaters a little more, as well as a decent voice.

1-Then you haven't played enough JRGPs, The Front Mission series has excellent stories ... the Chrono Trigger series also does ... Radiata Stories had a very interesting twist in its story ... Persona series stories are very imaginative and creative, Valkyria Chronicles has a very interesting take on WW2 .... need i keep going.

2-FF7, FF8, FF9 did have entire continents to explore, they were over-head but still that were very interesting to explore the first time around ... but JRPGs developers found that too much exploration dilutes the story (which is the focus of JRPGs) and that making a lively fully detailed world with that size and integrating it into the story is very taxing since they have many other aspects to focus on (battle system, cut-scenes, .. etc etc)

3-Again .. you seem to haven't played enough JRGPs, FF12 had excellent sense of fashion that fitted each area and race with unique and interesting but appropriate clothing, most of the other JRPG i mentioned in my faves had similar good tatse of fashion .. similarly FF8 had a very nice and modest fashion design for ALL its characters (well ... except Ultimicia .. but she is an evil witch .. so the crazy look fitted her)

Only some of the games made by Tetusa Nomura feature excessive use of belts, zippers and buckles ... but one guy and his famous games don't represent the entire genre of JRPGs .. not even close.

I see that you are generalizing too much here .. not all JRPGs has generic stories or crazy nonsensical fashion or big boobed women ... that's the stereotypical idea those who don't play enough JRPG get from the outside ... once you delve and experience enough JRPGs you will see that such biased claims are far from the truth.

I'm saying on the map part that I enjoy that "FAKE" sense of freedom that was so common in older JRPGs. The whole select a location thing just bugs me but maybe I just need to get over it.

Also a good number of JRPGs have ditched random encounters as you said but a good few haven't such as Lost Odyssey and Enchanted Arms.

I did enjoy it too, but after hours of wandering around without finding anything worthwhile it got tiresome and the map becomes a chore to cross without any sort of vehicle ... i now learned to get over it .. specially after playing old JRPGs like (Final Fantasy Tactics) and (Front Mission) which had that select-a location-to-got-to approach that later got spread into this gen of JRPGs (yeah those two games are pretty much the origin of this mechanic in JRPGs).

That said, if they were able to create a world map that really is interesting and bursting with life i'd give it a try (maybe that can be the result of a hybrid between sand-box western games and JRPGs).

As for random encounters .. even if there are a couple of JRPG games still using this archaic mechanic the genre as a whole have thankfully dropped it.

 

[Talvrae]

Hey, while we're talking about cliche, why don't we look at Bioware, one of (if not the) the biggest WRPG games designers ever?

Spoiler

Yeah. No cliché's in this genre. No sir.

Edit: Spoiler tags are shrinking it. Right Click->View Image for readable image.

Simply want to say that most of thouse have been avoided in ME 2

 

[CmdrGoob]

They don't need fixing. Well, aside from stuff like this:


I hate it when my JRPGs get preachy, teaching me life lessons.

My god, that is awful.

Yes, this style of unsubtle, preachy, lame, long winded, self-indulgent, pretentious writing is far too prevalent in JRPGs. It's so bad. Certainly the top thing that could be 'fixed'* in JRPGs IMO. I would also prefer if they did more in the way of interactive storytelling, doing stories with no interactivity using an interactivite medium is so much less interesting than using the medium's potential for interactivity to get the player involved in what's happening.

*not that I think JRPGs need to change or be fixed, if people like them as is there's no reason for them not to continue as is even though I don't really like the genre as it is now.

 

[LeonLethality]

JRPGs are just fine, change will ruin the genre. There are plenty of different types of JRPGs and you saying they are all the same means you really haven't played very many.

Go play Fire Emblem and then go play Golden Sun and THEN go play Tales of the abyss and only then you can try telling me they are all the same.

if you are looking for something new in a jrpg try ones you have not tried before, you looking for real time combat? try star ocean or the tales of series or even dark cloud. You looking for a great story? I point at Final Fantasy Tactics and say "play this. Now!" to anyone who wants a great memorable story. I could go on but I think my point has been made.

 

[Talvrae]

Since when Fire Emblem is a JRPG? It's a typical tactics game

 

[LeonLethality]

Since when Fire Emblem is a JRPG? It's a typical tactics game

So was Final Fantasy Tactics, but they are also JRPGs, just with a different style of combat. See? they have diversity!

 

[Amnestic]

Hey, while we're talking about cliche, why don't we look at Bioware, one of (if not the) the biggest WRPG games designers ever?

Spoiler

Yeah. No cliché's in this genre. No sir.

Edit: Spoiler tags are shrinking it. Right Click->View Image for readable image.

Simply want to say that most of thouse have been avoided in ME 2

Not really. Let's go through them in order:

"You hail from humble origins." - Okay, no. Sequel and it was avoided in ME1. +0
"A devestating battle sends your quiet life out of balance." - Normandy gets fucked over by the Collectors. +1
"The attack leaves you alone with two companions, of magical and martial prowess." - You get Jacob and Miranda. +1
"Undaunted by the attack, you recover and are swiftly invited to join an elite order that places you in a position of power or authority over the rest of humanity." - Inducted into Cerberus, given a top secret mission to save the entire galaxy. +1
"You discover that you have to travel to four main locations to save the world/galaxy." - Horizon, Collector Ship, Reaper IFF, Colector Base. +1
"With your mission well under way, your every effort isthwarted by an evil or sinister organisation." - Yeah, you don't really save any colonists and the Collector's attack the Normandy twice when you're not ready. +1
"At some point you fall asleep and there is a dream sequence." - Not in this game, though one of the side missions has a Prothean beacon. +0
"Further along in your journeys, you discover the ruins of a sprawling, ancient civilisation." - Quarian ruins on Haestrom, along with the motherfucking dead Reaper you walk around in. +1

Final score: 6/8.

Edit: Just to say, I love Bioware games. I do. I have yet to be disappointed by any of the ones I've played (and I've played most of them). Just that people deriding JRPGs for having clichéd plots - which they do - and saying they should be more like WRPGs which also have clichéd plots is laughable.

And let's not get started on all the Western developed FPS games. "Space marine" anyone?

 

[antigodoflife]

They don't need fixing. Well, aside from stuff like this:


I hate it when my JRPGs get preachy, teaching me life lessons.

This. I'm sick of vaguely hippy-ish "people of the world unite" crap.

although Unskippable would not be as good without the overlong cinematics with tortured metaphores

Just so you know. I chose THE WORST OFFENDER with that video. Eternal Sonata is the pinnacle of the shit mountain in terms of faux-philosophical bullshit. I mean, just listen to those people in the credits.

But I still like Lost Odyssey AS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF STORYTELLING (Fuck off, Bioware and Valve) for this:

oh no don't make me read Hanna's Departure for the second time, first time was horrible to the depression enough, it's so powerful and sad

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

They don't need fixing. Well, aside from stuff like this:


I hate it when my JRPGs get preachy, teaching me life lessons.

This. I'm sick of vaguely hippy-ish "people of the world unite" crap.

although Unskippable would not be as good without the overlong cinematics with tortured metaphores

Just so you know. I chose THE WORST OFFENDER with that video. Eternal Sonata is the pinnacle of the shit mountain in terms of faux-philosophical bullshit. I mean, just listen to those people in the credits.

But I still like Lost Odyssey AS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF STORYTELLING (Fuck off, Bioware and Valve) for this:

oh no don't make me read Hanna's Departure for the second time, first time was horrible to the depression enough, it's so powerful and sad

Yeah, well...TAKE THAT!

 

[Doug]

FIRE!

Ok, maybe not. Make them better by... doing whatever it is JRPG fans like better?

I don't know, there not my thing. RPGs are my thing, and RPG hybrids (which are still RPGs inspite what whiner fans might say).

 

[CmdrGoob]

Hey, while we're talking about cliche, why don't we look at Bioware, one of (if not the) the biggest WRPG games designers ever?

Spoiler

Yeah. No cliché's in this genre. No sir.

Edit: Spoiler tags are shrinking it. Right Click->View Image for readable image.

Heh, if that's the worst cliches get in WRPGs, no wonder people don't complain as much about cliches in WRPGs because that's pretty weaksauce...

Oh no, slightly over half of all bioware franchises have a character that starts from a humble background! All their games have an evil or sinister organization that hinders your progress, OMG!

 

[spinFX]

I have played Oblivion and HATED IT! I have played some of Blizzards games like Diablo and stuff.. I could stand it to a point.. And name a few Bioware games i cant think of any off the top of my head..

I hated Oblivion too, i call bethesda game exploration game not RPG
Diablo is an Hack and slahs not a RPG eighter
Bioware RPG:
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 (Not Baldur's Gate Allliance, they arent RPG eighter and not made by Bioware)
NEverWinter Night's
Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic
Jade Empire
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Dragon Age Origins

I liked Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate 1 i have it on the ps2 haha! Haven't played the rest..

Wrong Baldur's Gate there buddy. That is Dark Alliance which is a hack and slash. The real Baldur's Gate is on PC, and it's sequel Baldur's Gate II is also on PC.

Sounds like you haven't played any good RPGs. I love FF7 for example, I still don't want to call it an RPG, you don't get to make choices and play your own role. You are scripted and to me that just makes it an adventure/strategy game.

I know most people define RPG as leveling up, random number generators and getting better gear, but to me an RPG is PLAYING A ROLE. CHOICES.

 

[Doug]

They don't need fixing. Well, aside from stuff like this:


I hate it when my JRPGs get preachy, teaching me life lessons.

This. I'm sick of vaguely hippy-ish "people of the world unite" crap.

although Unskippable would not be as good without the overlong cinematics with tortured metaphores

Good god! I managed to get 1 minute in before the urge to murder became overwhelming. Please send replacement hamsters.

 

[Souplex]

I don't particularly care for most JRPGs unless they are turn based strategy games like Fire Emblem, however I can safely say that they are good at appealing to their target audience. They don't need fixing in the same way that Twilight doesn't need fixing. We may not like it, but it is not for us.

 

[Doug]

I know most people define RPG as leveling up, random number generators and getting better gear, but to me an RPG is PLAYING A ROLE. CHOICES.

Agreed. To me, JRPGs aren't RPGs, and nor are the old style RPGs. Their adventure games because you are following an adventure.

To me, any game where you get to make choices about your character and how they interact with the other characters in the world is an RPG. So, most of the Bioware ones, Fallout 3, and Oblivion - there are probably more but they aren't springing to my mind yet.

The combat system and graphical point of view (i.e. FPS vs Isometric) is wholy unconnected to what an RPG is. As stats - to me, stats are a means to an end, not the end itself - i.e. I have level 8 charm, so my character can do this, this, and this. If there was a way to do it without stats, that would be fully acceptable.

 

[Doug]

Hey, while we're talking about cliche, why don't we look at Bioware, one of (if not the) the biggest WRPG games designers ever?

Spoiler

Yeah. No cliché's in this genre. No sir.

Edit: Spoiler tags are shrinking it. Right Click->View Image for readable image.

Yep, every single genre is cliched when you look at it. All shades of RPGs the most.

But the indicator is how well they wear their cliches, and if they do something genuinely interesting with it.

In fact, in some cases it's the cliches that are the most identifiable thing about the genre, and if you take them away, you take away the whole soul of the genre.

Which is why I don't agree with the OP being upset about JRPG cliches, as without those cliches, the genre loses it's identifiable features.

Agreed. If you boil down every story to its basics, you'd only find...maybe 10 different types of story. All other stories would be a variant or combination of the base types.

And I don't mind cliches myself, so long as their handled well. I am sick of the 'children saving the world' cliche from JRPGs that I've tried and seem to be common. Correct me if I'm wrong, it just seems to be overly common that the main protognise is a boy under the age of 18.

 

[Terrorist_school_drop-out]

Well considering the OP's opinion and the sugestions currently on other sites and forums, the only way to make JRPGs stop hmm....what's that word......sucking, and making them actually go somewere since the late 90's, is to make them stop beeing JRPGS. Think about it, non turn-based linear combat, huge open-world, choices, no melodrama, NO ANDROGYNOUS TEENAGERS, this people is a full-on Western RPG. I'm sorry but the characteristics I've mentioned above are the things that make JRPGs well....be JRPGS.

 

[Infernostrider]

not to be a ***** or anything, but if i wanted realistic i wouldn't be gaming, watching TV or reading books. i'd be leaving my house (After, ofcourse, breaking it open as it's rusted shut).

however, the realism implied by people getting pissed when you steal their shit, as you so eloquently put it, is something i thoroughly enjoy. Let me steal your console, see how you like it eh? ^_^