Just trying to save the world

[goodman528]

I'm talking about a resource based economy [http://www.thevenusproject.com/resource_eco.htm].

I've seen both of the Zeitgeist films as well. It's good entertainment, but not good documentary.

Resource based economy assumes:
1) infinite resources
2) people are nice and are content with just having what they need and "want"

Capitalism assumes:
1) finite resources
2) people are all dickhead and will shaft each other at the first opportunity, if the profit incentives are good enough.

In reality:
People measure their success not in absolute term, i.e. what they actually have compared to what they need and want.
People actually measure their success in relative terms, i.e. what they have that other people around them do not have.

Now do you understand why capitalism is a much better system than anything else anybody has ever come up with?

 

[Girog]

Mind you, this change would have to take place over hundreds of years. It wouldn't be a "BAM no more money! Have a party!" change. It would be more of a "Let's give you national health care. Let's combine some countries. Now let's have free education for everyone. Now we're going to turn more jobs into volunteer." This would go on until, finally, "Let's take away the last thing, money, and perfect."

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

No offense to OP, but it sounds like this would lead to the complete and utter stagnation of humanity.

 

[Zeke the Freak]

Seriously, if I WERE president *wink* or were able to decide what government we had, I would turn it into a *temporary* dictatorship. Now I know what your thinkin "Oh soon-to-be-president Zeke, isnt dictarorship bad?!" We'll our (America's) economy is so fucked BY the people, that we need to take power away from them just to set shit straight. A temporary displacement of rights, if you will. Did you hear about the new bill that Obama signed?!?! Gas prices are expected to rise up to $5-6 a gallon!!!! He banned drilling in 1 mil acres of the most oil rich feilds in the country (or something like that, I just couldnt stop thinking about how glad I am that people elected an asshole to lead our country cos he's black. bra-fucking-vo) all because of environmentalist bastards. Once shit gets straightened out, Ill recommision the democracy and give up my place as leader. BOOM! My plan has potential. Remember kids, a vote for Zeke is a vote for awsome.

 

[Aramax]

No. We will never reach a post-scarcity society if we attempt to go down roads like this.

So, how exactly are we going to reach a post-scarcity society?

No offense to OP, but it sounds like this would lead to the complete and utter stagnation of humanity.

Fair enough. So what can we do to prevent all those social disasters from worsening? We just stand there and do nothing... is that what you're suggesting?

I'm not saying it would be perfect, I'm saying it would be a lot better then anything else that we have right now and that we should start planning the demise of those economical systems that have failed us all before it's too late and get thrown back into the darker ages.

Don't be a zombie.

Mind you, this change would have to take place over hundreds of years. It wouldn't be a "BAM no more money! Have a party!" change. It would be more of a "Let's give you national health care. Let's combine some countries. Now let's have free education for everyone. Now we're going to turn more jobs into volunteer." This would go on until, finally, "Let's take away the last thing, money, and perfect."

Exactly.

 

[Zeke the Freak]

Dont be a zombie.

NO! WE NEED MORE ZOMB-oh you dont mean what I think you mean do you?

My real point is that you seem to have the tendency to latch on to a word *or rather insult* you use it as many times as you can as to drill it into us that we are, in fact, pessimistic zombies.
2 can play that game.
dont be a communist...

 

[hxcfreak]

lol that whole plan bullshit as long as there are people there will be some greedy bastard who wants more creates a dictatorship and does whatever the hell he wants its just human nature

 

[Aramax]

Dont be a zombie.

NO! WE NEED MORE ZOMB-oh you dont mean what I think you mean do you?

My real point is that you seem to have the tendency to latch on to a word *or rather insult* you use it as many times as you can as to drill it into us that we are, in fact, pessimistic zombies.
2 can play that game.
dont be a communist...

I love you big time.

=D

You got this aura of epicness whenever you make a post... you should try and make some vlog or something. I would definitely vote for that.

 

[zacaron]

I have always been confused about why countrys spend trillions yearly on military to get oil... when it would be cheaper to buy it.
but like they say, the last drop of oil will be used by a tank.

 

[Dogmeat T Dingo]

No. Sorry, but a resource based economy would fail.

First of all, it's not just "in the event" of mass laziness, there WILL be mass laziness. If you cater for people's needs without the need for them to work, they WON'T WORK. I'm not saying that in a derogatory way to a minority, heck *I* wouldn't work if I didn't need to. Nobody would, that's the point. We have countless examples of people not working because it's easier to mooch off of society.

Second, your contingency plan to make robots do all the work would fail, because we don't have the technology to make robots do everything. I'm usually quite a technophile but even I have to admit that many of the jobs humans do can't be filled by machines. Even things like office work can't be done by robots, you may be able to fill SOME simple manufacturing tasks with robots but anything that requires decision making or analytical thought? You need people. And even if we had the technology, programming all these robots to fill every niche in the workforce would be far too monstrous a task for a people who have no incentive to do the job anyway. And even THEN, even if we somehow got them all up and running, they would be so smart by necessity that THEY would start to question the value of work.

I understand how you feel disenfranchised with capitalism, it's a shit system. Few people will claim that it's fair, or just, or anything like that. It puts a dollar value on every person, punishes hard workers with shit kicker salaries and rewards people for corruption, greed and sometimes plain luck with millions. But capitalism has the best track record, it's not fair but it works, so until we can find a better system this is the one I'll stand behind.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

No. We will never reach a post-scarcity society if we attempt to go down roads like this.

So, how exactly are we going to reach a post-scarcity society?

No offense to OP, but it sounds like this would lead to the complete and utter stagnation of humanity.

Fair enough. So what can we do to prevent all those social disasters from worsening? We just stand there and do nothing... is that what you're suggesting?

I'm not saying it would be perfect, i'm saying it would be a lot better then anything else that we have right now and that we should start planning the demise of those economical systems that have failled us all before it's too late and get thrown back into the darker ages.

Dont be a zombie.

Mind you, this change would have to take place over hundreds of years. It wouldn't be a "BAM no more money! Have a party!" change. It would be more of a "Let's give you national health care. Let's combine some countries. Now let's have free education for everyone. Now we're going to turn more jobs into volunteer." This would go on until, finally, "Let's take away the last thing, money, and perfect."

Exactly.

A human with no adversarial strife will turn its destructive tendencies to itself.
Sorry, OP, but the idea of "perfect society" that you've latched onto is anything but.

 

[BrEnNo1023]

Um...I like money? Let's face it, we need money or some kind of currency.

Likewise, so if you don't want your money please mail all of to me and Prime then.

i'll be in that too. i mean, to cut a very long story short, a change this radical is like telling us to return to the trees. if you feel the need to go agrarian, create your own country somewhere there isn't already one (oh, i forgot, you need money to do that, how are you going to get there? walking doesn't cost any money...). im' not trying to sound rude by blindly shooting down a theory, that, with billions of people supporting it, would DEFINITELY WORK!!! but it's just that people are people, so it'll never happen.

unless you kill every capitalist soul in the world. but that wouldn't go down so well methinks...

 

[Aramax]

Unless you kill every capitalist soul in the world. but that wouldn't go down so well methinks...

I think they're doing a pretty good job at that themselves. I will do what I always do; Talk about change while those who remain anchored in the past just dissolve with time. Poetic, isn't it?

 

[Zeke the Freak]

Dont be a zombie.

NO! WE NEED MORE ZOMB-oh you dont mean what I think you mean do you?

My real point is that you seem to have the tendency to latch on to a word *or rather insult* you use it as many times as you can as to drill it into us that we are, in fact, pessimistic zombies.
2 can play that game.
dont be a communist...

I love you big time.

=D

You got this aura of epicness whenever you make a post... you should try and make some vlog or something. I would definitly vote for that.

thanks!

yet still nobody even responds to my ad campaign.
I mean seriously, what could be wrong with Dictatorship, Zombification and prostitution?
Oh did I mention prostitution yet?
Well yeah Im bringing it back.

TAKE THAT MORALS!

Remember, kids, a vote for Zeke is a vote for whoring, post-apocolyptic awsome!

 

[munkyforce]

1)If you can name me 100 totally different products ( Not just the same product of a different type, brand, build or company ) that are still currently used today. I will declare you a god. You dont even how much useless repetitive useless crap you got lying in your appartment. Things that you could easily live without because you already got a better version of it somewhere else in a drawer.

Soap, deodorant, water, motor vehicle lubricant, sexual lubricant, condoms, asthma medicine, heart medicine, pain killers, shoes, razor blades, asphalt, concrete, timber, furniture, traffic lights, DVDs, DVD player, television, telephone, computer, modem, glass, plate, pan, knife, fork, spoon, automobile, heater, stove, tobacco, alcohol, bandage, pants, shirt, newspaper, food, lighter, cup, bath, water heater, paint, lighting, turf, fertiliser, musical instrument, clock, calender, socks, toilet, tiles, paper, writing implement, book, exercise equipment, camera, photographic paper, pesticide, acid, firearm, ammunition, kettle, lock, fencing, hammer, nails, screwdriver, screws, spanner, drill, rubbish bin, street sign, map, satellite, explosives, ventilator, plastic bag, copper wiring, jewelry, steel girder, elevator, door knob, security system, mop, vacuum cleaner, washing machine, clothes line, peg, safe, bucket, slide rule, eraser, scales, thermometer, shelter, bedding, crane, bulldozer, aircraft.

Right there's your 100.

But seriously you didn't answer my original question. How does a resource based economy decide what to produce, given the varying tastes of individuals? Or are you saying that there will really be no choice in regards to taste e.g. you can have any colour you want as long as it's black.

 

[Aramax]

...100 totally different products...

Soap, deodorant, water, motor vehicle lubricant, sexual lubricant, condoms, asthma medicine, heart medicine, pain killers, shoes, razor blades, asphalt, concrete, timber, furniture, traffic lights, DVDs, DVD player, television, telephone, computer, modem, glass, plate, pan, knife, fork, spoon, automobile, heater, stove, tobacco, alcohol, bandage, pants, shirt, newspaper, food, lighter, cup, bath, water heater, paint, lighting, turf, fertiliser, musical instrument, clock, calender, socks, toilet, tiles, paper, writing implement, book, exercise equipment, camera, photographic paper, pesticide, acid, firearm, ammunition, kettle, lock, fencing, hammer, nails, screwdriver, screws, spanner, drill, rubbish bin, street sign, map, satellite, explosives, ventilator, plastic bag, copper wiring, jewelry, steel girder, elevator, door knob, security system, mop, vacuum cleaner, washing machine, clothes line, peg, safe, bucket, slide rule, eraser, scales, thermometer, shelter, bedding, crane, bulldozer, aircraft.

Right there's your 100.

But seriously you didn't answer my original question. How does a resource based economy decide what to produce, given the varying tastes of individuals? Or are you saying that there will really be no choice in regards to taste e.g. you can have any colour you want as long as it's black.

Most of them are the exact same thing that are used differently and appear to be different product. Fail.

Water is not a product, only a capitalist would think like that.

What i'm trying to point at is the fact that the question is so trivial that there are no answer. I can only tell you this much; There will be a lot less products but everything is going to become a lot more practical because there wont be any need to make life complicated like a capitalist system used to.

There will be a wider variety of colors and motifs for everything you need because frankly this will become the only thing left to bother with.

 

[BrEnNo1023]

Water is not a product, only a capitalist would think like that.

well, we pay for water. bottled water. we buy spring water in bulk for office water dispensers. water bills. . . water has BECOME a product due to capitalism. it sucks, but it's the way things are, in western society, anyway. i'm not completely sure about the communist way of doing things because our capitalist education system (the one we pay for) doesn't teach us all that stuff...and for reasons such as this entire topic.

 

[Aramax]

Well, we pay for water. bottled water. we buy spring water in bulk for office water dispensers. water bills. . . water has BECOME a product due to capitalism. it sucks, but it's the way things are, in western society, anyway. i'm not completely sure about the communist way of doing things because our capitalist education system (the one we pay for) doesn't teach us all that stuff...and for reasons such as this entire topic.

Can't wait to pay for the air I breathe.

 

[JWAN]

so, can you find me an example of communism working?

Russia - fail
China - fail
Vietnam - fail
North Korea - fail
Cambodia - fail
Cuba - fail
Poland-fail
Czechoslovakia-fail

what about socialism?

Germany - fail
Italy - fail
France - fail
Japan - fail (until they went back to NOT doing stupid crap with money("The Lost Decade")
Hungry - fail
Turkey - Delicious but also a fail
Canada - fail
Dominican Republic - fail
Mexico - fail

The list goes on, feel free to add to it I know I left some out, my bad I have economics homework.

BREAK DOWN THE WORD COMMUNISM ("commune" what does that mean)


stop renaming communism, hasn't it killed enough people? It made Nazi Germany look like a bunch of armatures.

This is nothing like communism? what? because YOU say so? So If I tell you McDonald's on the east side of town is different than the west side of town it IS different because i say so?

Of course this all depends on your defeniton of fail, if you want to live in a mud hut and eat tree roots go ahead.

I'm going to stick with capitalism

 

[Aramax]

so, can you find me an example of communism working?

Russia - fail
China - fail
Vietnam - fail
North Korea - fail
Cambodia - fail
Cuba - fail
Poland-fail
Czechoslovakia-fail

what about socialism?

Germany - fail
Italy - fail
France - fail
Japan - fail (until they went back to NOT doing stupid crap with money("The Lost Decade")
Hungry - fail
Turkey - Delicious but also a fail
Canada - fail
Dominican Republic - fail
Mexico - fail

The list goes on, feel free to add to it I know I left some out, my bad I have economics homework.

BREAK DOWN THE WORD COMMUNISM ("commune" what does that mean)


stop renaming communism, hasn't it killed enough people? It made Nazi Germany look like a bunch of armatures.

This is nothing like communism? what? because YOU say so? So If I tell you McDonald's on the east side of town is different than the west side of town it IS different because i say so?

Of course this all depends on your defeniton of fail, if you want to live in a mud hut and eat tree roots go ahead.

I'm going to stick with capitalism

All of those system would work if everyone on this planet would back them but, since those system need money to work, there is greed and greed is at the base of all those systems failure. Capitalism will fall victim to this eventually.

A resource-based economy wouldn't have this flaw.