L4D 2 demo... what do people think?

[MiracleOfSound]

I never said the demo wasn't as good as a finished product. I merely said what I did and didn't like about it. If you read the OP you'll see this.

Unfortunately even Valve fans can't say anything negative about a Valve game these days without getting blasted with fanboyism.

As for your points on bugs, everything you said is true but surely most bugs can be dedected by extensive playtesting?

Bethesda for example: people couldn't even play The Pitt when they released it. It made my copy of the came crash. That's a pretty damn big bug for something you just paid your good money for. Surely you can understand the frustration of the consumer in this instance?

And I remember laughing to myself playing F3 for the first time, when it entered a game-breaking glitch within the first ten minutes, during the G.O.A.T. exam... Beth obviously hadn't playtested the intro properly.

Thankfully, Valve's games tend to be more bug-free than almost anyone else.

But nowhere in my OP did I mention bugs anyway, that coversation was a tributary.

Demos are meant to be a way to experience the best the game has to offer, so people will then go and buy it.

They should function as well as the finished game.

That.

As for playtesting, you also have to consider how many people can a company really hire to playtest. Then consider how large games are that need to be playtested. Multiply by the number of systems to be tested on. The consoles tend to be straight-forward testing. There should not be any notable different between one 360 and another 360. Same with the PS3, though that does mean that you need teams to test for a 360 and a PS3. Even still, they could have only 50 people playtesting and all 50 could miss that crash. Suddenly you have 100,000+ players playing and the chances of one of them finding that crash is much higher.

If you go PC, that's a whole other hell. Different versions of Windows, types of video cards, sound capabilities, processors, RAM, drivers, etc.... They can only test so much and even a slight difference in the versions of your C++ runtype libraries sitting on your computer could result in a crash. The process of optimizing for any one thing can result in bad performance on another, if the company isn't careful. If something absolutely breaks, it's most likely because whatever you are running wasn't a test machine they had or didn't have the conditions that cause your crash.

I once had to figure out why a program I developed wouldn't work on ONE machine my clients had. The machines should have been the same. Turned out to be as simple as having the wrong version of some library because it hadn't been connected to the internet for Windows updates. Knowing this, I made sure all future versions would properly add those library files necessary. It's is tricky and there are just so many things you have to take account for and it is too easy to miss something.

I see what you're saying.

I've only ever played Morrowind (form Steam), Fallout 1 and Zelda: A Link to the PAst on my PC, so my knowledge of this area is small.

You get used to things just working in one way when you're a consoler! Put the disc in and play. So when it doesn't work it can be confusing.

But having seen the modding that people did to Morrowind, I hope to invest further in PC gaming in a year or two, when I can find the cash.

But what you said about PC play testing was very interesting there, makes you see things from a whole different perspective.

 

[chase211]

I think there is a big disconnect here between the people complaining about the graphics on PC and those forced to play it on the vomit inducing 360. Invest in a PC.

Ignorance must be bliss.

Is it?

I don't know? It looks fine on PC(not top notch, but with everything cranked up I certainly don't have complaints). The game looks jaggie on my 360...bliss? perhaps.

 

[Jonci]

I see what you're saying.

I've only ever played Morrowind (form Steam), Fallout 1 and Zelda: A Link to the PAst on my PC, so my knowledge of this area is small.

You get used to things just working in one way when you're a consoler! Put the disc in and play. So when it doesn't work it can be confusing.

But having seen the modding that people did to Morrowind, I hope to invest further in PC gaming in a year or two, when I can find the cash.

But what you said about PC play testing was very interesting there, makes you see things from a whole different perspective.

Oh yeah, console is nice. I have a good gaming computer, but I always go with console versions. I just trust them more for stability. I do hate missing out on mods, but I had too much trouble in the past with PCs just because I couldn't afford a computer with enough power. I couldn't even play Planetside on my old college laptop just because it would freeze up if there were too many people. These days more companies are focused on consoles anyway, just due to the simplicity of knowing the hardware is a constant. PCs versions are becoming ports of the console development more and more.

 

[Daniel Cygnus]

I've been playing it on my PC (also using it as a handy test to see if I could run the first L4D), and it's pretty fun so far. It doesn't seem too different from the first one, though. I wouldn't say it's essential for me to have RIGHT NOW, but maybe something to get down the line when the price drops.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I think there is a big disconnect here between the people complaining about the graphics on PC and those forced to play it on the vomit inducing 360. Invest in a PC.

Ignorance must be bliss.

Is it?

I don't know? It looks fine on PC(not top notch, but with everything cranked up I certainly don't have complaints). The game looks jaggie on my 360...bliss? perhaps.

What I meant was... not everyone can afford a gaming PC. And platform bashing is ignorant too.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Demos are meant to be a way to experience the best the game has to offer, so people will then go and buy it.

They should function as well as the finished game.

Indeed, and honestly, I'm not sure if the L4D2 demo actually succeeded in that. Afterall, all you get to play is the simplest (read: least effected by all the changes in the game) gameplay mode and only a snippet of that. Versus mode will be the best mode to see how the improvements have affected the L4D formula, because it's the most established and dynamic mode of the original L4D. If we could've only played that little part of The Parish only in Versus, I would've been so much happier with the demo. Still, I extremely enjoy chopping zombies up with a machete.

What I meant was... not everyone can afford a gaming PC. And platform bashing is ignorant too.

That's not bashing, that's stating the facts. We all know that, for example, you won't get the same anti-aliasing on the 360 as you get on the PC, and one of your main complaints is that things look jaggety. Maybe the switch from PC to console isn't kind on the Source engine.

 

[Katana314]

I'm playing PC, and gotta agree with miracleofsound (ALL settings on max and high framerate)

Now don't mistake me; I think he's completely wrong about them needing to upgrade the engine, and games like Ep2 and TF2 are proof of that; you can really create some beautiful and unique-looking environments in Source. L4D2? Not. 90% of the time you're stuck on one horizontal plane with blocky buildings all around you. There's no signs of devastation or even any feeling of 'mood' or art style. It's not directly cartoony, it's not directly realistic, it's not even that 90's horror movie film style L4D1 aimed at. All in all it adds up to nothing at all, making it pretty freaking dull. Plus as he said, the graphics are bad and uninteresting. Even the blood just looks "bigger" without actually looking like something.

People saying testing is difficult are correct. However, Valve has no excuses. They practically have entire departments dedicated to playing and replaying and replaying and replaying and replaying the game OVER and OVER months before release to strenuously find everything, gameplay or bug-wise. Maybe not every company has this, but I have definitely seen games with more polish than this.

LIKE:

THE VIDEO GAME

 

[-Seraph-]

I never played the first L4D, it always looked like it would be fun for about a week and then the novelty would ware off, and I got that same feeling after finishing this demo except it wasn't fun to begin with. While and after playing it I just kept thinking "this is it? this is what people have been drooling over and lauding?". The game felt so dry and vapid, just so average at best.

The gunplay was boring with the weapons feeling flat and dull with no "umph" behind them, and the whole core gameplay surrounding it gets old and stale fast. I don't mind mindless shoot fests, but this game just made it so boring because the enemies aren't fun to fight and just feel flat out stupid. I had not experienced such bland gunplay since CoD4, and it's all so average at best.

I don't normally care about visuals much, but I'm with miracleofsound on this one, they were just dull. I played this on the PC, and my rig can eat Crysis for breakfast so when I cranked up this game to the max, it still looked so dated. The Source engine needs to be retired, it's just not very good anymore. The visuals were just bland and uninteresting, and like like Katana314 siad, it all feels lacking and just down right generic.

I wasn't going to buy L4D2 to begin with, but I thought I would give it a fair chance and play the demo. Now I come out of it even more bored than I was and confused at why these boring and shallow games are so popular, but thats just me.

 

[Rahnzan]

I dont think the new characters have enough personality. Give me some ACCENTS or something. The white suit isn't nearly as much of an asshole as he needs to be, the hic kid isn't nearly gungho enough, coach doesn't sound much at all like any coach I grew up with, and who the heck is the girl? A news reporter right? She should have the most accentless voice on the planet. The original four were smarmy and stereotypically unique with VERY distinct voices. These new four, I cant tell the difference between Nick, Coach and Ellis through the pace this game is at. It's gotta be distinct. They aren't. I'm not saying go over the top, but you CAN do southerner voices and make them charming. Or in the case of Nick, at least intrigueing. They're dull as shit.

Cutting up zombies with a machette though is BEYOND fun. The gameplay is better on the xbox but cutting into zombies is more satisfying on my PC for some reason...

either you havn't played either or your just fucking retarded.
the four are now much more distinct and to be honest, more stereotypical.
and your obviously american because you say rochelle dosn't have an accent but to me it is quite prominent and they are all different and have bigger back stories, wheras the old ones were one liners.

And you obviously cant READ. Yes I'm American. Let me just point something out to you.

"She should have the most accentless voice on the planet." See that word there? Should? Second from the left? What does that tell you? It tells me two things. First it tells me through context that I'm talking about how she has an accent when her background would indicate training in a field that discourages accents. Meaning out of the bunch she should have a very proper speaking dialect. And second, yeah, it pretty much tells me you cant read. Because someone who could read, would pick up on context clues to verify where I was coming from before opening their mouths and assuming I'm stupid because I live on a different plot of land. So yeah, I'm aware she has an accent, if you could read, you'd have known that. "You must be American durpa durp." Speaks volumes about wherever the hell you're from concerning basic English reading courses. Take your prejudice elswhere.

What I was getting at is that Nick Ellis and Coach don't have enough distinction when shouting 'guns' and 'pills' and what not but the girl is the only one with a significant variation of voice, which is kind of moot, because she's the only girl. When she screams Hunter its apparent that it's her because she's the only girl in the party. It's the demo, there's something like 40 lines in the whole thing, of course we're not going to get the witicisms out yet, but damnit I gotta know who's pounced. In the first game you'd get a very distinct verbal que from one of the other characters, you could tell right away that the muttering old voice was bill, that the rash forced voice was Francis and the smoothed out over excited guy was Louis.

This game its like : 'found some guns' 'found some guns' 'found some guns.'

as it happens it was 3 am when i read that and i didn't have my glasses on and as an added bonus i have dyslexia you prick!
and by the way you americans are so pompously up yourselves. i have never heard an american news broadcast in which they are so heavily accented its hard to understand!

Yeah you're 3am excuse doesn't cut it because you got it wrong twice: Let me spell it out for you without the explaination. She's the only discernable accent. Newscasters typically dont have accents. She has one, she doesn't need one. The other guys dont have discernable accents. I have to pick out Coach because he talks slower but nick and ellis are giving me trouble, especially when it seems like Ellis only uses an accent like half the time.

You're saying 'I've never heard a news broadcast in which they are so heavily accented' I'm saying 'THE - SAME - THING.' Not that hers is heavy.

That's swell that you have dyslexia. I recommend you take that into account when you decide to confront someone through literation. Just because you're on the wrong side of your own arguement because of dyslexia doesn't mean you're on the wrong side of your own arguement. Take some time, read a little slower. My aunt's got dyslexia to the point where I believe they should be making a medication for it (and if they do, she definitly needs to take it) but she gets by just fine. Just read things twice.

Not all Americans are pompous pricks. That's a stereotype perpetuated by foreigners who's only cultural run in with us are tourists. And you better bloody believe that your (foreign) tourists aren't any better. Me personally? Hell yeah I'm a pompous prick. I've also got one hell of an ego but that doesn't come from being an American. Having a first amendment to insure the law cant shut me up when I dont like something certainly helps though. You want to call me a pompous prick, that's fine. The rest of America? That's inaccurate.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I'm playing PC, and gotta agree with miracleofsound (ALL settings on max and high framerate)

Now don't mistake me; I think he's completely wrong about them needing to upgrade the engine, and games like Ep2 and TF2 are proof of that; you can really create some beautiful and unique-looking environments in Source. L4D2? Not. 90% of the time you're stuck on one horizontal plane with blocky buildings all around you. There's no signs of devastation or even any feeling of 'mood' or art style. It's not directly cartoony, it's not directly realistic, it's not even that 90's horror movie film style L4D1 aimed at. All in all it adds up to nothing at all, making it pretty freaking dull. Plus as he said, the graphics are bad and uninteresting. Even the blood just looks "bigger" without actually looking like something.

People saying testing is difficult are correct. However, Valve has no excuses. They practically have entire departments dedicated to playing and replaying and replaying and replaying and replaying the game OVER and OVER months before release to strenuously find everything, gameplay or bug-wise. Maybe not every company has this, but I have definitely seen games with more polish than this.

THE VIDEO GAME

Exactly.

The game really does have a dull, uninteresting art style. People are saying graphics don't matter yet at the same time furiously defending the graphics.

Anyone who really needs proof need only load up the game, go up that ramp at look at those hilariously shit flower pots.

Thre is no feeling of being in a living world, just running around a bunch of floaty, blocky polygons.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I never played the first L4D, it always looked like it would be fun for about a week and then the novelty would ware off, and I got that same feeling after finishing this demo except it wasn't fun to begin with. While and after playing it I just kept thinking "this is it? this is what people have been drooling over and lauding?". The game felt so dry and vapid, just so average at best.

The gunplay was boring with the weapons feeling flat and dull with no "umph" behind them, and the whole core gameplay surrounding it gets old and stale fast. I don't mind mindless shoot fests, but this game just made it so boring because the enemies aren't fun to fight and just feel flat out stupid. I had not experienced such bland gunplay since CoD4, and it's all so average at best.

I don't normally care about visuals much, but I'm with miracleofsound on this one, they were just dull. I played this on the PC, and my rig can eat Crysis for breakfast so when I cranked up this game to the max, it still looked so dated. The Source engine needs to be retired, it's just not very good anymore. The visuals were just bland and uninteresting, and like like Katana314 siad, it all feels lacking and just down right generic.

I wasn't going to buy L4D2 to begin with, but I thought I would give it a fair chance and play the demo. Now I come out of it even more bored than I was and confused at why these boring and shallow games are so popular, but thats just me.

It confuses me too, and whats worse is that it will more than likely only have four short levels like the first one. Pure laziness, dressed up as 'innovation' because a few enemies and doors spawn in different places.

I totally agree about the weapons too, they feel anaemic and unsatisfying to use. The sound of them firing against metal is the same audio sample they used in Half Life 2, a game that's five years old. That is lazy programming.

L4D was one of the least value for money games I ever bought, I wouldn't mind but this is the company who gave me one of my top 2 games of all time. I expected better.

 

[chase211]

I think there is a big disconnect here between the people complaining about the graphics on PC and those forced to play it on the vomit inducing 360. Invest in a PC.

Ignorance must be bliss.

Is it?

I don't know? It looks fine on PC(not top notch, but with everything cranked up I certainly don't have complaints). The game looks jaggie on my 360...bliss? perhaps.

What I meant was... not everyone can afford a gaming PC. And platform bashing is ignorant too.

nothing to do with the console, the xbox version of the game is simply not ported well.

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

Just played the demo and I have to admit I wasn't all that impressed.

This is coming from a huge Valve fan, by the way.

The gameplay was nothing new, felt just like the first one with the lights turned on.

Now I know graphics are not the most important part of a game, but man Valve need to either update or replace the Source engine.

The game looks like shit.

The buildings and character models are horrible, angular last gen atrocities that would look more at home in GTA San Andreas than on a 2009 mainstream release.

Objects are blocky and have no shadows, lighting effects look dated and blurry.

The very first vista was a badly implanted endless sea with an almost blank horizon. Half Life 2 had better graphic than this.

Animations and sounds are still very good, and the guns feel about right. The characters seem a bit more interesting than the last bunch too. The music was very cool and jazzy and helped with the setting.

But all in all I found the experience pretty underwhelming and won't be forking out my cash for it.

Especially not after playing Borderlands. Aussie friends, you're not missing all that much.

Anyone love it? Hate it? Feel indifferent to it?

Edit:

I forgot to mention the best thing about it: Mike Patton rocks.

Stop playing the game on a machine that dates back to the 40s and still uses the term computer bugs.

The graphics look great, better than most games I've seen lately. Unless you're using a really old computer, the graphics should look great.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Just played the demo and I have to admit I wasn't all that impressed.

This is coming from a huge Valve fan, by the way.

The gameplay was nothing new, felt just like the first one with the lights turned on.

Now I know graphics are not the most important part of a game, but man Valve need to either update or replace the Source engine.

The game looks like shit.

The buildings and character models are horrible, angular last gen atrocities that would look more at home in GTA San Andreas than on a 2009 mainstream release.

Objects are blocky and have no shadows, lighting effects look dated and blurry.

The very first vista was a badly implanted endless sea with an almost blank horizon. Half Life 2 had better graphic than this.

Animations and sounds are still very good, and the guns feel about right. The characters seem a bit more interesting than the last bunch too. The music was very cool and jazzy and helped with the setting.

But all in all I found the experience pretty underwhelming and won't be forking out my cash for it.

Especially not after playing Borderlands. Aussie friends, you're not missing all that much.

Anyone love it? Hate it? Feel indifferent to it?

Edit:

I forgot to mention the best thing about it: Mike Patton rocks.

Stop playing the game on a machine that dates back to the 40s and still uses the term computer bugs.

The graphics look great, better than most games I've seen lately. Unless you're using a really old computer, the graphics should look great.

You should probably read further into the thread there, Barney.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I think there is a big disconnect here between the people complaining about the graphics on PC and those forced to play it on the vomit inducing 360. Invest in a PC.

Ignorance must be bliss.

Is it?

I don't know? It looks fine on PC(not top notch, but with everything cranked up I certainly don't have complaints). The game looks jaggie on my 360...bliss? perhaps.

What I meant was... not everyone can afford a gaming PC. And platform bashing is ignorant too.

nothing to do with the console, the xbox version of the game is simply not ported well.

So I have heard about Valve's games. HL2 seemed fine for me though, and both episodes played well.

It sucks when ports are substandard, I guess you PC guys must get pretty frustrated with it too.

 

[jboking]

It was Left 4 Dead with some new weapons and aids(defib was a great addition). I liked L4D, I like L4D2. That is pretty much as simple as it gets.

 

[Runding]

I'm a fan of the first one, however is it just me or does the sequel feel a bit too similar to the original? I felt like it's basically L4D with daylight and a bit more dismemberment to the zombies.

I wish they could have increased the number of zombies on screen or other game breaking new mechanics.

I may need to wait for a price drop for this one. We shall see.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I loved every second.
It was gory, fun, and I got to blast at zombies.
Sadly, I do not have the money to spare for it, so I have to pass at this time...sigh.

And I do not know where you're finding issues with the graphics...I played it on the default settings and it still looked markedly better than the first game when I played it on high.

I'll try and explain what I mean.

See how everything is angular?

This game has more right angles than the companion cube factory.

Look at the texture clash between the balcony and the wall below it... they look badly pasted together, it's too obvious. The balcony just floats next to the wall. Nothing seems to fit together well in the world.

The guns are definately better looking than in L4D 1 though. Finding an AK47 was pretty cool.

The character models are kind of blocky and 'gamey'. The survivors look ok, I mainly refer to the infected.

Compare this to say, Dead Space, now almost a year old, as an example of a game that makes good use of the current gen's lighting and graphical power:

The graphics are not the biggest concern anyway, though anyone who says they are not important I would disagree, graphics enhance a player's immerison within a game when done correctly, therefore enhancing thier enjoyment of it.

its an American city, its blocky and the town layout looks like a checker board. want curves in your city? go to Europe.

I live in Europe, have been to 8 European countries and can assure you, we do not have curvy houses.

Except maybe in Barcelona.

 

[Stormz]

I thought it was pretty fun. I don't think it's a game I'd go out and buy right away though. It's a game I will consider buying someday.