League of Legends, how will you survive?

[Jenvas1306]

I really hate how they deal with the female champions. yes, sex sells, but is that all they got for female players? after all that controversy, they dont even try it with something different?

and never new maps.. just revamps

 

[Call me Baz]

Happily, the business model of releasing a new champion every 2 weeks actually stopped, champions taking 3-4 weeks for consistency now, if even that frequently. They took too long to do that though.

I will say, I rather like that TT is getting a slight rework, I haven't had any discussions with friends about whether these new items and the like are going to help bring some unplayed champions in the current meta (across all game types) into a useful place now, especially with the whole "anti-bruiser" tweaks made in it.

But if it lost about 40 champions and could rework some of the interesting skills into the remaining champions, it wouldn't be hit all that hard. I found it easier to think "Oh i'm going to play X today" back before I had like 80 choices.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

So what will happen to League of Legends in one or two years from now?

I think that they will either :
A. Rethink their economic system

Their economic system works wonders if you haven't noticed yet. I mean, I've been playing LoL for about a year now and I can tell you that the quality of the game has risen dramatically and that doesn't happen unless you're seeing a large profit.

or
B. Roll over and die, with a bloated champion pool

Considering Riot has almost tripled its champ pool since the game has been released and they haven't had any issues at all, I'm gonna also doubt this one.

League of Legends pops out every two weeks (or so) a new champion with a skin bundle, which is very good for their wallets.
The problem occurs that over time, how are they going to keep their game "balanced" when every other week a new guy has to sell to make profit and at same time not wreck the "balance" of the game. Only hick up is if the new guy doesn't "face roll" or is Under Power (see Yorick on release day) he will not sell well and will keep a bad reputation even after several buffs.

See Skarner, Leona, Hecarim and Nocturne. All of these guys were either considered to be bad picks or were considered weak upon release day, especially Skarner, who was regarded as "worse than Yorick". Now? Well Leona is one of the most common support tanks in the game and Skarner, Hecarim and Nocturne are all considered to be top tier jungelers. The Meta shifts, certain champions become more and more popular as time goes on, and there are reasons why Yorick remains in the dust. Heck, you might see this again with Syndra since they just gave her a huge buff.

So they are pretty much obliged to morph their balanced system around the new guys, very good first week, after BRING IN THE NERF HAMMER.

No, that "very good first week" is just the lol community doing their biweekly rounds of complaining about new champions. I have yet to see a champion who I would consider OP. I didn't think Darius was OP, I didn't think Diana was op and I most certainly don't believe Rengar or Kha'Zix is op. They all have their weaknesses to exploit, the problem is that the community does a bad job of realizing this.
[/quote]

 

[maddawg IAJI]

I really hate how they deal with the female champions. yes, sex sells, but is that all they got for female players? after all that controversy, they dont even try it with something different?

and never new maps.. just revamps

Dominion?.......And what do you mean sexualized female champions, have you not seen Shyvana, Riven, any of the yordle champs or Diana?

I admit, they had their problems, but according to Riot, they did it because certain models weren't easily distinguishable from one another.

 

[Fappy]

I really hate how they deal with the female champions. yes, sex sells, but is that all they got for female players? after all that controversy, they dont even try it with something different?

and never new maps.. just revamps

Dominion?.......And what do you mean sexualized female champions, have you not seen Shyvana, Riven, any of the yordle champs or Diana?

I admit, they had their problems, but according to Riot, they did it because certain models weren't easily distinguishable from one another.

They do have their fair share of modest female champs (I play Diana, Shyvana and Akali), I'll give you that. However, I do think they go a bit overboard on the sexualization of some champs. Especially in the splash art.

Morgana's new splash art makes me cry inside. It's so... silly. Good thing I play Sinful Succulence and Blade Mistress ;P

EDIT: Miss Fortune's new art is one of the worst offenders.

 

[Naeras]

I wouldn't say the highest winrate is grounds for nerfing, infact I'd say that is incredibly poor grounds.

If you actually had something concrete other than a stat that would be different.

You know that balancing around winrates and effectiveness is how balancing actually works from a competitive point of view, right? Ideally you want all champions to have a winrate as close to 50% as possible to ensure as much variety and strategical choice as possible.* If someone is being picked very often and wins a majority of those games, you can either wait for the metagame to change(which may or may not favor that champion anymore), or you change the champion in some way. If things got nerfed simply by popular demand, then... well, if you've ever played WoW, you know what I mean.

As it is, Ezreal is probably the best rounded AD carry in the game, as he's got great mobility, burst damage and poking throughout the entire game. I'm not sure exactly what to change on him as I'm not good enough to make serious comments on the topic of balance, though. Then again, that's why competitive players are the ones you ask for feedback in regards of balance, and not the other 99.9% of the playerbase.

*This is, of course, not actually possible because there will always be niche champions that only really function as counterpicks.

Her passive fuels her ult, which is why I said she's nothing but a walking ultimate. My objection was saying that Akali is easy mode compared to Katarina which simply isn't true.

It's actually the other way around. Her ultimate can help you secure a kill, which lets you get off a reset, which again greatly increases the likelihood of you getting another kill, and so on. Getting off more than one ultimate is not realistic, nor is it usually necessary to use it by the point you've gotten three resets.
Anyways, bleh. I just get ticked off whenever people claim the only thing Kat has going for her is the ult, when the ult isn't even her best asset. I agree that the Akali comparison doesn't make much sense, though.

 

[attackshark]

leave the competitive scene to the DOTA players.

 

[The Wykydtron]

-Snip-

Shutting down a Kat ult is still one of my favorite things to do in this game XD

Nah, the best is when you pull Nunu out of Absolute Zero. Take that you dick! No perma-slows and massive damage for you sir! I find Diana's Moonfall to be the coolest way to break channels, it's sort of a mini knockup as well as a pull back.

I really like Diana's combo. She reminds me of Fizz where you get hit by one thing and you're probably dead if she decides to follow up regardless of health. Except you actually need to have skill to oneshot someone with Diana.

Only kidding!

[sub]Mostly[/sub]

[sub][sub]Fizz is just so cheap[/sub][/sub]

 

[Lyri]

You know that balancing around winrates and effectiveness is how balancing actually works from a competitive point of view, right? Ideally you want all champions to have a winrate as close to 50% as possible to ensure as much variety and strategical choice as possible.* If someone is being picked very often and wins a majority of those games, you can either wait for the metagame to change(which may or may not favor that champion anymore), or you change the champion in some way. If things got nerfed simply by popular demand, then... well, if you've ever played WoW, you know what I mean

No, not really.
Some heroes just won't be picked up at all because of their fantastic skill set. Riot did this a long time ago with Xin, they gave him a nerf and slight tweak because he was winning a lot of public games despite never being picked in a competitive game, ever.

Some heroes just have core mechanics that are agueably better than other heroes and gives them greater ability.
Riot has always had a hard on for heroes who can insta-gap close, it stands to reason that Ezreal with his two blinks is becoming a staple choice for carry.

As it is, Ezreal is probably the best rounded AD carry in the game, as he's got great mobility, burst damage and poking throughout the entire game. I'm not sure exactly what to change on him as I'm not good enough to make serious comments on the topic of balance, though. Then again, that's why competitive players are the ones you ask for feedback in regards of balance, and not the other 99.9% of the playerbase.

*This is, of course, not actually possible because there will always be niche champions that only really function as counterpicks.

Times have changed them, when I played Ezreal was always untouched and heroes like Caitlyn and trist were the go to guys for ranged carry.

It's actually the other way around. Her ultimate can help you secure a kill, which lets you get off a reset, which again greatly increases the likelihood of you getting another kill, and so on. Getting off more than one ultimate is not realistic, nor is it usually necessary to use it by the point you've gotten three resets.
Anyways, bleh. I just get ticked off whenever people claim the only thing Kat has going for her is the ult, when the ult isn't even her best asset. I agree that the Akali comparison doesn't make much sense, though.

Then what is her best ability because frankly it is her ultimate.

If you took that away from her she would be completely worthless, the only reason to have her is to clean up a fight once the stuns have been used.

 

[Naeras]

No, not really.
Some heroes just won't be picked up at all because of their fantastic skill set. Riot did this a long time ago with Xin, they gave him a nerf and slight tweak because he was winning a lot of public games despite never being picked in a competitive game, ever.

That was my point, yes, and it's exactly why balancing around popular demand is a bad idea. The majority of the whiners aren't actually any good at the game, and thus not the people you should be balancing around. As someone who's partially responsible for the "public balance discussion forum"(read: the venting room for raging mid-level players) on the biggest Company of Heroes-site, I know how bad an idea it usually is to change something because of what a lot of low-mid-level players perceive as an imbalance. The problem is 99% of the time just that they're playing wrong, which I assume was the deal with Xin: pubbies not knowing how to deal with him.

Some heroes just have core mechanics that are agueably better than other heroes and gives them greater ability.
Riot has always had a hard on for heroes who can insta-gap close, it stands to reason that Ezreal with his two blinks is becoming a staple choice for carry.

Absolutely true. The rest of his toolset is also extremely effective, however, so it's not merely the blink.

Times have changed them, when I played Ezreal was always untouched and heroes like Caitlyn and trist were the go to guys for ranged carry.

Yup, metagames change. That's why competitive winrates is just as important to look at as pick/ban-rates are. If a champion is picked/banned most competitive games, and wins the majority of the games said champion picked in, there is reason for concern.

Then what is her best ability because frankly it is her ultimate.

If you took that away from her she would be completely worthless, the only reason to have her is to clean up a fight once the stuns have been used.

From what I interpreted from the last paragraph you're not playing anymore, thus you might not be aware that she doesn't rely as much on her ult anymore as it got nerfed. Her Q-E-W-combo plays a way bigger role now, and she's still considered a top-tier pick even despite her crappy laning phase.
Her "best ability" is the ability to use her ridiculous burst at least twice in any decent teamfight, thus her passive is her most important tool by far. The ult helps, but it's not anywhere close to being what defines her.

 

[yaydod]

So what will happen to League of Legends in one or two years from now?

I think that they will either :
A. Rethink their economic system

Their economic system works wonders if you haven't noticed yet. I mean, I've been playing LoL for about a year now and I can tell you that the quality of the game has risen dramatically and that doesn't happen unless you're seeing a large profit.

or
B. Roll over and die, with a bloated champion pool

Considering Riot has almost tripled its champ pool since the game has been released and they haven't had any issues at all, I'm gonna also doubt this one.

Well what i meant is that LoL roster is getting more and more "dull" but the biggest problem is that there is only one way to play the game, by that i mean the obligatory 1-1-2 jungle.

They tried to fix this but it still stays the most effective way sadly, and no matter how many champions they add, if they don't fix this, it might not go so well in the future.

Also yes they tripled the amount of champions but will it still be manageable in two years with 50 more? Especially with their "burden of knowledge" philosophy.

League of Legends pops out every two weeks (or so) a new champion with a skin bundle, which is very good for their wallets.
The problem occurs that over time, how are they going to keep their game "balanced" when every other week a new guy has to sell to make profit and at same time not wreck the "balance" of the game. Only hick up is if the new guy doesn't "face roll" or is Under Power (see Yorick on release day) he will not sell well and will keep a bad reputation even after several buffs.

See Skarner, Leona, Hecarim and Nocturne. All of these guys were either considered to be bad picks or were considered weak upon release day, especially Skarner, who was regarded as "worse than Yorick". Now? Well Leona is one of the most common support tanks in the game and Skarner, Hecarim and Nocturne are all considered to be top tier jungelers. The Meta shifts, certain champions become more and more popular as time goes on, and there are reasons why Yorick remains in the dust. Heck, you might see this again with Syndra since they just gave her a huge buff.

No, i am sorry but Nocturne on release was OP, skarner too, but it is true that Hecarim and Leona were balanced but Yorick was totally Under Powered on release day, so badly i think they did a mid week patch to buff him.

So they are pretty much obliged to morph their balanced system around the new guys, very good first week, after BRING IN THE NERF HAMMER.

No, that "very good first week" is just the lol community doing their biweekly rounds of complaining about new champions. I have yet to see a champion who I would consider OP. I didn't think Darius was OP, I didn't think Diana was op and I most certainly don't believe Rengar or Kha'Zix is op. They all have their weaknesses to exploit, the problem is that the community does a bad job of realizing this.

Well the thing is that they wont release any weak champions because they don't sell, that is why they almost never release any support or tank.


My biggest problem with LoL is that i started playing during the beta, the game was highly mobile etc.. but over 2 years the game got stagnant and starts to try to move an unmovable thing( hence the 1-1-2 jungle).
The game got dull in my eyes, even the competitive play, most games are completely played out around the 20mins mark, and before that you must farm and nothing else since if you gank, they can just flash under their tower, and even if you kill them, you lost their gold worth in last hits.
So this one more reason why i think LoL needs to change fundamentally if they want to survive the test of time.

P.S: It has been several months that i stopped playing LoL but i played a ton of games (If i remember right i had 1115 wins for 750 lost) but now i am fully on Dota2 and in my eyes the game is so much more dynamic (Supports can do more stuff than just keep the carry alive during laning phase )

 

[miketehmage]

I think most players have already given up on the idea of perfect game balance. There are champs that are more powerful and champs that are less powerful and most people come to accept that. The only real balance issue is that every new champ comes out super strong. But they just get banned in ranked games anyway, so no big deal.

 

[L0dest0ne]

LoL is the most played multiplayer game on the planet. Riot would almost have to literally stop making the game for it to die.

 

[Pebkio]

I agree to the point that they have too many champs so that they can't really pay attention to all of them. Everyone is all about nerfing Rengar and how Zyra was hotfixed and yada yada blah blah. Meanwhile, they've forgotten about first gen champions nearly altogether.

Okay, so I'm a little upset about what they did to Karthus. The last nerf was not needed. Then they just left him in the ditch while they've been releasing champs that has put his "overpowered" moves to shame.

...AND they never fixed Heimerdinger's passive, even though it's entirely defensive.

Fiddlesticks having a stun CC that lasts for 3 seconds with a low cooldown isn't getting looked at...

It's because they're all too busy with the new champs that keep coming out and having to immediately fix them once they're found to be OP. It's a usual occurrence it seems.

We've released a NEW CHAMPION! You get a new champion! And you get a new champion!
*one week later*
So... yeah, we have to fix our new champion...

Shutting down a Kat ult is still one of my favorite things to do in this game XD

Agreed. I think this is the real point of the thread, in fact: It's really fun to shut down Kat's ult.

 

[Rednog]

I really want this damn Elise person. Wondered when a spider person would be released, you'd think spiders would be the one of the earliest things to come out of the Idea Bucket.

Just want to point out that they indeed did have a spider champion early in the League's life, but she got scrapped. Her name was Priscilla.

Spoiler

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Priscilla

There hasn't been an 'overpowered' champion on release in a while, the last one being Zyra and she was hotfixed rather than nerfed - her power was unintentional.

Rengar was an absolute beast, pretty much everything about him is getting nerfed.

Technically what the other guy said was right, Rengar "on release" was pretty bad, his pounce put him behind people, and pretty much left you trailing behind unless you threw your boa, and his W's animation caused you to have to stay in place. He became a monster when they altered those abilities. Tbh I think they're going to reconsider Rengar because he really won't fit in the jungle after this nerf. The guy's sustain was already garbage and now they're making his sustain even worse and his bonetooth necklace pretty much like every other stack on kill item (leviathan, soul stealer, etc)...basically a "never buy this item".

 

[Lyri]

That was my point, yes, and it's exactly why balancing around popular demand is a bad idea. The majority of the whiners aren't actually any good at the game, and thus not the people you should be balancing around. As someone who's partially responsible for the "public balance discussion forum"(read: the venting room for raging mid-level players) on the biggest Company of Heroes-site, I know how bad an idea it usually is to change something because of what a lot of low-mid-level players perceive as an imbalance. The problem is 99% of the time just that they're playing wrong, which I assume was the deal with Xin: pubbies not knowing how to deal with him.

Ok lets bring some DotA in on this.

I wasn't talking about banning by popular demand but more by necessity but the popular demand is the method Riot really employs.
What is the reason behind Ezreals nerf first of all? I'm expecting something good here, because from the sounds of it he hasn't changed at all since I was last playing him.

My justification for such nerfing is related to a hero in DotA Lycanthorpe: Lycan was a hero who could jungle extremely efficiently, faster and harder than any other hero in the game and was an absolute monster if you left him unchecked for 20 minutes.
Not only would he solo Roshan (baron but you get an extra life) within those minutes he would also be able to freely contest any hero at that point based on income of his jungle vs your lane.
He was B& and picked even in pro games, where they knew exactly how to deal with him but they just didn't want too.

He was changed recently and he has no dropped from tier 1 to tier 4 quite arguably. The change?
The wolves he could summon now half hp - this has crushed his jungling and he isn't that strong of a laner in the first place.
There is a reason to nerf a hero, so what is Ez's for?

Yup, metagames change. That's why competitive winrates is just as important to look at as pick/ban-rates are. If a champion is picked/banned most competitive games, and wins the majority of the games said champion picked in, there is reason for concern.

Again that really depends, hence my point about mechanics. I can't see any reason to adjust Ezreal beyond stripping that second blink from him.

From what I interpreted from the last paragraph you're not playing anymore, thus you might not be aware that she doesn't rely as much on her ult anymore as it got nerfed. Her Q-E-W-combo plays a way bigger role now, and she's still considered a top-tier pick even despite her crappy laning phase.
Her "best ability" is the ability to use her ridiculous burst at least twice in any decent teamfight, thus her passive is her most important tool by far. The ult helps, but it's not anywhere close to being what defines her.

Yeah I haven't kept up at all, I'm into the DotA scene so you'll have to expain the Ez sitch a bit better for me.
Ez has never been special at all, him suddenly winning more only seems logical to me because of his escapes.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

So what will happen to League of Legends in one or two years from now?

I think that they will either :
A. Rethink their economic system

Their economic system works wonders if you haven't noticed yet. I mean, I've been playing LoL for about a year now and I can tell you that the quality of the game has risen dramatically and that doesn't happen unless you're seeing a large profit.

or
B. Roll over and die, with a bloated champion pool

Considering Riot has almost tripled its champ pool since the game has been released and they haven't had any issues at all, I'm gonna also doubt this one.

Well what i meant is that LoL roster is getting more and more "dull" but the biggest problem is that there is only one way to play the game, by that i mean the obligatory 1-1-2 jungle.

No, that's not the way to play the game. That's the meta and even then, that's only the meta in North America. Prior to that, it was a 1-1-2 lane with AD carries in the mid lane and no jungelers. Supports would roam and the jungeler would control the objectives. Even the common champions have changed dramatically, when I first joined, Vlad, Ezreal and Shen were considered troll picks. Eve was OP and the most common AD carries were Caitlyn, Ashe and Vayne. Things change. The Meta shifts. Now you're seeing people place tanks down in the support lane, you're seeing Sona more often, you're seeing Blitz more often, etc etc. LoL is not a static game with a static way to play.

They tried to fix this but it still stays the most effective way sadly, and no matter how many champions they add, if they don't fix this, it might not go so well in the future.

What do they need to fix? This is something created by the community.

League of Legends pops out every two weeks (or so) a new champion with a skin bundle, which is very good for their wallets.
The problem occurs that over time, how are they going to keep their game "balanced" when every other week a new guy has to sell to make profit and at same time not wreck the "balance" of the game. Only hick up is if the new guy doesn't "face roll" or is Under Power (see Yorick on release day) he will not sell well and will keep a bad reputation even after several buffs.

See Skarner, Leona, Hecarim and Nocturne. All of these guys were either considered to be bad picks or were considered weak upon release day, especially Skarner, who was regarded as "worse than Yorick". Now? Well Leona is one of the most common support tanks in the game and Skarner, Hecarim and Nocturne are all considered to be top tier jungelers. The Meta shifts, certain champions become more and more popular as time goes on, and there are reasons why Yorick remains in the dust. Heck, you might see this again with Syndra since they just gave her a huge buff.

No, i am sorry but Nocturne on release was OP, skarner too, but it is true that Hecarim and Leona were balanced but Yorick was totally Under Powered on release day, so badly i think they did a mid week patch to buff him.

What game were you playing? Skarner was worthless after his release. His jungle was lackluster and his damage output was pathetic and....look, just go watch a few first impression videos on Youtube. As for Nocturne, he was considered a pub-stomper by many and had no real competitive value. When they started building him like a bruiser though, people found he worked much better.

So they are pretty much obliged to morph their balanced system around the new guys, very good first week, after BRING IN THE NERF HAMMER.

No, that "very good first week" is just the lol community doing their biweekly rounds of complaining about new champions. I have yet to see a champion who I would consider OP. I didn't think Darius was OP, I didn't think Diana was op and I most certainly don't believe Rengar or Kha'Zix is op. They all have their weaknesses to exploit, the problem is that the community does a bad job of realizing this.

Well the thing is that they wont release any weak champions because they don't sell, that is why they almost never release any support or tank.

*Cough! COUGH* SYNDRA! VIKTOR! SEJUANI! * Cough* oh my, I need to get that checked out.

My biggest problem with LoL is that i started playing during the beta, the game was highly mobile etc.. but over 2 years the game got stagnant and starts to try to move an unmovable thing( hence the 1-1-2 jungle).

Then you of all people should know that the game has not stayed the same. That LoL has shifted its roles tremendously, that certain champions have fallen out of favor in certain positions, only to become godly in another one (Warwick as a solo laner, TF as a Ap Carry, Diana from the jungle to the AP mid. etc etc.) The game's meta is a creation of the community, not the creators and not every single meta follows this pattern. For example, lately, shifting lanes has become fairly common and certain champions are more popular in other metas (Gragas is much more popular in the EU meta, while Fiddlesticks is more popular in the NA.)

The game got dull in my eyes, even the competitive play, most games are completely played out around the 20mins mark, and before that you must farm and nothing else

If you're in a lane. And even then, harrassing and poking are major aspects to the laning phase.

since if you gank, they can just flash under their tower, and even if you kill them, you lost their gold worth in last hits.

....Ya...but their out of lane now, which means you can free farm. The better question is, why were they so hell bent on getting cs, that they didn't even bother aiming for you. Not only that, but you'd have to be down quite a bit in CS if they have 300-400gold advantage since the average minion gives around 22-16 gold per kill depending on if you kill a caster minion or a melee minion. I.E. you'd have to be really, really, really bad at last hitting if you're down by that much without any deaths. Lastly, ya, they can flash, but they can't do it again for nearly 3 minutes...so.....what's to stop the jungeler from coming back once they've pushed the lane and even then, Crowd Control exists for a reason.

P.S: It has been several months that i stopped playing LoL but i played a ton of games (If i remember right i had 1115 wins for 750 lost) but now i am fully on Dota2 and in my eyes the game is so much more dynamic (Supports can do more stuff than just keep the carry alive during laning phase )

If you've missed the last couple months, I'm afraid to tell ya that kill lane comps are much more prevelant in bot lane today (A "Support" with hard cc, damage amplifying or damage mitigating abilities and a strong poke or heal. These are mostly combined with AD carries like Corki, Ezreal and Graves, who also have damage amplifying abilities and strong poke.) http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&league=ranked&type=bottom-lane-synergy&range=daily

As you can see here, you'll notice common Janna, Ashe and Soraka see a lot less action then they did a few months back....I guess you could say that the meta shifted.

 

[Naeras]

Ok lets bring some DotA in on this.

I wasn't talking about banning by popular demand but more by necessity but the popular demand is the method Riot really employs.

Which is still a bad idea. However, the voices to nerf Ez is, as far as I know, mainly coming from the higher level players rather than the masses.

What is the reason behind Ezreals nerf first of all? I'm expecting something good here, because from the sounds of it he hasn't changed at all since I was last playing him.

From what I understand, Ez being so strong right now is several factors combined: his great pokes, his mobility, and his burst. In the current aggressive bot-lane metagame(Taric, Leona, Alistar, Blitzcrank etc as supports), he does incredibly well as his supports can get off a stun, and he can easily follow up with his burst. The key here is that he can do this even from a defensive position thanks to his blink, and with his poking capabilities being so great, he can apply pressure without putting himself at risk, and only go in when it's guaranteed to secure a kill. It also, obviously, gives him an additional escape. These strengths also translate very well from the laning phase into teamfights, because he can apply all those strengths there as well. No other champion does this as well as Ez, which makes him an incredibly safe and effective pick.
This also makes nerfing him a bit tricky, because it's a combination of these things that currently make him so powerful, not one glaring problem. Thus I have no idea exactly what they'll nerf. Then again, I am no expert on that game.

My justification for such nerfing is related to a hero in DotA Lycanthorpe: Lycan was a hero who could jungle extremely efficiently, faster and harder than any other hero in the game and was an absolute monster if you left him unchecked for 20 minutes.
Not only would he solo Roshan (baron but you get an extra life) within those minutes he would also be able to freely contest any hero at that point based on income of his jungle vs your lane.
He was B& and picked even in pro games, where they knew exactly how to deal with him but they just didn't want too.

He was changed recently and he has no dropped from tier 1 to tier 4 quite arguably. The change?
The wolves he could summon now half hp - this has crushed his jungling and he isn't that strong of a laner in the first place.

Lycan being competitively picked/banned is a good way to judge whether or not the nerf is justified, though, even though he completely hinged on a single mechanic. Also, if it put him down to T4, the nerf was probably too harsh as well. Making someone viable, but not overpowered, should be the goal of rebalancing.

Again that really depends, hence my point about mechanics. I can't see any reason to adjust Ezreal beyond stripping that second blink from him.

Err, second blink? Was his teleport usable twice at some point? ô.o
If by the "second blink" you're just referring to his built-in non-flash blink, I don't see it being removed, especially as five out of the six other high-tier carries have some kind of mobility option as well.

Yeah I haven't kept up at all, I'm into the DotA scene so you'll have to expain the Ez sitch a bit better for me.
Ez has never been special at all, him suddenly winning more only seems logical to me because of his escapes.

Like I said, I'm not exactly why or what makes Ez so strong right now, or what it would be reasonable to nerf. However, with his winrates, I don't see why nerfing him would be as ridiculous as you tried to make it sound with your first post.

 

[DazZ.]

I do that as Veigar all the time

Not stealthed and then not needing to run away from the other 4 because you're tanky enough to just take their damage. The burst wasn't the problem.

 

[Zyst]

I got way too suffocated with the Meta game in LoL, every game was pretty much ADC and support bot, ap mid top duellist and jungle. Don't get me wrong, I love LoL and I find it very fun, with my mate we were sitting at the 1850-1950 ELO range which fluctuated with win/loss streaks. However, in the end I was just suffocated. In DotA I don't really have that problem, I've played that game on and off for many years now and I still find it incredibly fun, today we ran a captains mode game where we went 1 top 1 mid trilane bot, then one pretty standard game with 2 top 1 mid 1 jung 1 bot as Radiant and one incredibly weird game where we had 3 heavy carries. Overall it was really fun, and I find myself having that feeling less and less with LoL, the challenge required is also quite different. I'm sure I'll be able to come back to LoL in a couple of months and it'll feel good again for a couple of months then I'll quit again, but I never have that problem with DotA so meh.

Smite is also quite fun! I dunno why so many people discredit it such. Also Ao Kuang is the shit, blue dragon throwing tornadoes and shit.