"Leaked" PC Edition of GTA 5 is Actually Malware

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Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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Yopaz said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Yopaz said:
Ultratwinkie said:
JoJo said:
Ultratwinkie said:
The first picture has:

18+ million downloads. Only counting the first few 1,000,000+ numbers. That is more than GTA V sold on day fucking 1. Rockstar lost, on console piracy alone, an additional 1.3 billion dollars. Not counting the used game sales that will inevitably come as well.
Those are views, not downloads. It's quite likely many people would have viewed more than one thread, or viewed the same thread several times in the course of working out which was best to download, and lurkers would be added to the tally too. I don't doubt numbers pirated were stupidly huge but there isn't really a reason to assume 18+ million from what you've posted.
86+ million views.

It would only take 18% of viewers to match what GTA V sold on day 1.

Argument is still valid. Piracy is huge on consoles, and the idea that consoles are safe is patently false. It would take over 82% of people viewing the torrent to not pirate it.

No way 82% would just drop that. Even 10% download rates equal half a billion dollars.
You assume those views are different people, but there are also a lot of replies to those threads. A reply to a post means at least 2 views and if someone is browsing through multiple pages, refreshing the site to see if someone has answered a question or something like that a good deal of those views can be dismissed. Your reasoning is flawed because you count 1 view as 1 person and then make an arbitrary number to determine the rate of how many pirates it based on that. 1 person might make up hundreds of views on each of those threads. Someone with a crappy connection might have refreshed the page a good deal of times.

However your point is valid. Piracy isn't a PC exclusive and your image does provide enough of an indication of that even though the numbers of pirated copies is probably a lot lower than what they indicate.
Yes, and I compensated for that with percents.

If that 86 million was only 10% actually downloading, that still puts 1/3rd of the player base as pirates. We cut the 86 million by 90%.

If it was 20%, half of the players are pirates. We cut the 86 million by 80%.

Anything at or higher than 18% is bad. That's why I wasted the time to explain that and cut it down.
But there's no way of telling anything about how many actually downloaded it from those numbers because we can't assume those numbers to say anything about the number of people who viewed it. We might as well find the number of pirated copies based on how many Xbox 360s have been sold. It is vaguely related, but equally useless in determining the number of people who downloaded it. You have no statistics showing number of downloads and unless you do mentioning numbers for it is bullshit.

Right now I make up about 7 or 8 views depending on if I count before posting this or after posting this. I know you make up quite a bit yourself. I bet you also make up for a number of views on other threads. If there was a discussion or someone trying to help someone on that board 1 person could easily make up 20 views in one threads, maybe 3 or 4 each in the others making the statistics less than 1% if he actually downloaded it. That one person may also have downloaded several versions because he ran into some problems making it work meaning that even the number of downloads isn't necessarily number of people pirating it.

You make assumptions and claim it to be facts, but I suspect your numbers are greatly exaggerated compared to the reality. You have proof that piracy on consoles exist. Don't try to prove that 30% of all console users are pirates, that's pushing your luck.
If you include all consoles around the world then yes that number could be accurate.

If you haven't heard of it before but chipping is a big thing in at least South-East Asia, I've personally been to several gaming boutiques in Malaysia with my uncle where the entire stock is pirated. Its so bad that a legitimate copy of Starcraft 2 was added to the care-package alongside chocolate and honey that was sent over a few years back.

I don't know how bad it is elsewhere although.
 

Erttheking

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And this is why I don't download stuff from websites that aren't official or well known with a good reputation.
 

luvd1

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Like going with a crusty, crack whore and being supriced about getting something nasty.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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Ultratwinkie said:
Are you seriously suggesting that 99% of those views are people with tech support issues?

On a pirate console game that does 99% of the work for you because there is no such thing as installation or even burning?

This isn't PC gaming. This isn't some huge complex thing. Its an easy process that anyone can do with a modded console and a connection to wikihow. Especially since modded consoles are sold in third world countries. One of the biggest is Russia.

So somehow 86 thousand people posted 86 million times in 4 fucking days?

And making up numbers? I posted the fucking picture. Its all right there, fucking count them yourself if you want confirmation. In fact, I rounded down the fucking numbers to give you the benefit of the doubt and still got staggering numbers.


This isn't xboxes sold, this is views on piracy sites. Sites dedicated to theft. That's been passed around by big sites like reddit like wildfire. Are you honestly going to say that only 86,000 people ran into tech support issues on the level to warrant 86 million posts in 4-3 fucking days? Not to mention the sheer number of people downloading at once making downloading multiple copies in 4-3 days almost impossible.

News flash: no one goes to pirate sites for social networking. They go there to specifically break the law.

Seriously, its like you are just dismissing everything in the face of overwhelming numbers. 1% doesn't make any sort of fucking sense, because "tech support" doesn't make sense when talking about console games.

86,000 making 86,000,000 posts in 4-3 days makes no fucking sense. Even at 5% piracy rate, its sketchy. 10% is bad. 20% is even worse.
That's not what I am saying at all. I am simply saying that's something we could assume, just like you assume that 10%, 20% or 30% of those were downloads. One of those links had near 15 000 posts meaning that a good deal of posts were made dismissing your claim that people don't run into technical difficulties. You posted this evidence so don't refute that. The number is nothing compared to the views though.

I'm not saying that no-one pirated it, I'm not saying we should make the comparison to amount of consoles sold nor am I saying we should assume that all those views are made by a small group of people reading or refreshing.

I am saying we shouldn't make assumptions. You want to claim 100 million people have downloaded GTA V then show me download statistics of 100 million people (NOT 100 million downloads) downloading GTA V.

Also you ignored the fact that I mentioned how views work. Refreshing the site, browsing the pages all count as views. Posting counts as more than one view. The number of pirated copies is high, there's no denying that. I still demand that you find a better source than number of views before I'm going to trust your numbers. I am already way past 10 views on this thread alone and that's in less than 2 hours. I am still one person. Views and people isn't the same thing. Stop making that assumption and we agree.
 

Baron Teapot

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Jun 13, 2013
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These people don't deserve to suffer because they wanted to play a game. A lot of them are just dumb kids who don't have an understanding of value or the hard work put into these products. I bet they p[irate because noone has ever told them not to do it.

Backups of DVDs are useful: I've had a number of games end up with their DVDs damaged, tragically preventing me from playing them after paying £39.99 for a legitimate retail copy. I downloaded backup DVDs, burnt them to disc, and was able to resume play (with my own CD-KEY, of course) relatively quickly.

Steam is amazing for this - if something happens to your binaries, you just download them again and get to play in a couple of hours.

I think that piracy is such a problem, in many ways, because it's so easy to carry out. I'm not saying that people need to be policed and monitored online (although we're already watched, with companies purchasing information to sell us ads and who knows what else), but I'd bet that a lot of people don't even consider it much of a crime, for it's taking place on a computer; it's not tangibly real, is it? Breaking into a car or murdering someone involves a physical act of aggression and violence, whereas to pirate you just need to click a couple of times, like you would when downloading any sort of file!

It's further compounded by the notion that "well, I'm just one person, so what does it matter if I pirate one copy?" Unfortunately it's not just one person - it's thousands of people all choosing to break the law, and that leads to higher prices for games and reduces the chances of Rockstar producing another 'Grand Theft Auto'.

Consoles already seem like they're on their way out. Companies certainly expect to lose a percentage of profits to piracy, but as Ultratwinkie put it, there are millions of views on that site. That probably translates to several hundred-thousand unique visits and downloads (at least), and because a game can easily be copied to DVD and then distributed, I doubt all of those downloads will translate to just one copy - people will burn them and give them to their friends and family and so-on.

In order to combat piracy, I would suggest that game developers look further into practical encryption of game assets and so-on. Does anyone remember 'Rage' from Id Software? The game locked some of its content out if you didn't enter a real key. Half-Life and other games require CD-Keys, but these are eventually cracked by hackers, who reverse-engineer parts of the software to determine what sort of algorithms are used to create a key.

Use stronger encryption, and be smarter! People will still pirate the game, but if you make it unplayable without a proper key, then can anybody complain? I say that it's important that it work with a proper key because, as I mentioned, backups are often useful when a game's disc is damaged. Not for piracy purposes, but to replace a damaged copy.

I'd bet that it would be rather easy to encrypt game assets so that you end up with low-quality textures and models if your key isn't correct. These days, publishers seem to be into having an 'always-on' connection to a server that will verify whether your copy is genuine and then allow you access to multi-player and other features. But this does not always work.

Really, why aren't more powerful (and difficult to crack) encryption algorithms and other anti-piracy measures not used in games? Is it something to do with space on a DVD? Problems decoding textures and meshes in real-time? It almost seems entirely worth it, even if you can store less on the disc and need an extra few minutes to load and de-crypt your game assets, especially if it would prevent someone from pirating your game!

Any thoughts? I apologize for the length of this post...
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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Ultratwinkie said:
Again:

Chipped console
Disc or hard drive
game image

done. Its not rocket science. refreshing all that tech support crap makes no sense when its so damn easy.

Piracy sites aren't the escapist. They are not there to talk, they are there to steal. That's it. Only people pirating PC games would even think of tech support.

Burning a disc or running off an external hard drive doesn't require a genius. If it did there wouldn't be any pirated consoles in the third world. There is a reason the third world has these by the truckload.

and downloads = people. This is 4-3 days before release depending on who you ask because the leak popped up at a strange time. The amount of leechers would make multiple copy downloads impossible. No one would have tried multiple downloads.

Refreshing a download page doesn't make it go any faster. On any site.

There is no assumption here. Just basic common sense. These numbers will be huge because the "talking and tech support" explanation you gave don't mean anything.

Those "big views" translated to only 57,000 posts. I went back and counted. So "tech support" and "refreshing" is a bunch of bull. Even then 114,000 "thread views" is paltry. Those "threads" were so small they don't even put a dent in the 86 million. So if it wasn't for the thread, what would someone viewing a pirate site do when looking at the most anticipated game in the last 8 years?

Certainly not need tech support or posting comments. Because those numbers were tiny.
Just show me the download statistics then.

Seriously, I didn't make the assumption that those 86 million views came from 10 people posting or refreshing. I explained that in my last post as an assumption we shouldn't make, just like your assumption that those 86 million views are individual people or downloads.

The picture you posted prove my point that people do comment on those threads. It also showed the number of seeders and leechers at a point (way, way waaaaaay below 100 0000), but it doesn't say anything about total downloads or individual downloads. It would also shock you, but sometimes people download 3 or 4 different torrents because one is running so slowly that they want to try a different one meaning that number might be skewed too.

However, show me the number of downloads rather than views or admit that you're making an assumption you can't actually back up with anything solid. I admit that my line of thinking that it came from refreshing or posting was bullshit. It was intentional bullshit.

Edit: Also, yes pressing F5 doesn't make a site load faster. People still do it whenever a page hasn't loaded after half a minute.
 

CardinalPiggles

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Well let that be a lesson to them I say.

velcthulhu said:
I realize the Escapist likes to stretch the definition of "news" these days, but seriously? Someone distributed a virus disguised as a torrent for a popular thing? That happens -literally- every time there is a popular thing for it to happen to. This is as newsworthy as memes getting posted to reddit, or idiots posting on 4chan. You might as well just post cat videos and call it news.
Don't you think it's useful information to some people? Much more useful than 90% of the news I have ever seen anywhere.

I wouldn't pirate anything anyway, but if I did it would be nice to know if something as malicious as this was going around.

I suggest you might want to simply stay away from the news section if you think it's unworthy of your divine attention. What makes me laugh though, is that you still took the time to write about it.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Aug 22, 2011
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TopazFusion said:
"Grand Theft Malware V"

...when GTA5 gets released on the PC, it's possible it might become the most pirated PC game in history.
Quite possibly, yes.

But I absolutely don't want to see any freeloaders be able to access GTA Online. So... it's highly probable we will have to deal with registration keys, which is cool with me if it keeps the morlocks out.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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Ultratwinkie said:
Yopaz said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Again:

Chipped console
Disc or hard drive
game image

done. Its not rocket science. refreshing all that tech support crap makes no sense when its so damn easy.

Piracy sites aren't the escapist. They are not there to talk, they are there to steal. That's it. Only people pirating PC games would even think of tech support.

Burning a disc or running off an external hard drive doesn't require a genius. If it did there wouldn't be any pirated consoles in the third world. There is a reason the third world has these by the truckload.

and downloads = people. This is 4-3 days before release depending on who you ask because the leak popped up at a strange time. The amount of leechers would make multiple copy downloads impossible. No one would have tried multiple downloads.

Refreshing a download page doesn't make it go any faster. On any site.

There is no assumption here. Just basic common sense. These numbers will be huge because the "talking and tech support" explanation you gave don't mean anything.

Those "big views" translated to only 57,000 posts. I went back and counted. So "tech support" and "refreshing" is a bunch of bull. Even then 114,000 "thread views" is paltry. Those "threads" were so small they don't even put a dent in the 86 million. So if it wasn't for the thread, what would someone viewing a pirate site do when looking at the most anticipated game in the last 8 years?

Certainly not need tech support or posting comments. Because those numbers were tiny.
Just show me the download statistics then.

Seriously, I didn't make the assumption that those 86 million views came from 10 people posting or refreshing. I explained that in my last post as an assumption we shouldn't make, just like your assumption that those 86 million views are individual people or downloads.

The picture you posted prove my point that people do comment on those threads. It also showed the number of seeders and leechers at a point (way, way waaaaaay below 100 0000), but it doesn't say anything about total downloads or individual downloads. It would also shock you, but sometimes people download 3 or 4 different torrents because one is running so slowly that they want to try a different one meaning that number might be skewed too.

However, show me the number of downloads rather than views or admit that you're making an assumption you can't actually back up with anything solid. I admit that my line of thinking that it came from refreshing or posting was bullshit. It was intentional bullshit.

Edit: Also, yes pressing F5 doesn't make a site load faster. People still do it whenever a page hasn't loaded after half a minute.
Why the fuck are you putting so much emphasis on 100 mill?

Also, on that same fucking page it shows leachers being lower than how many times it was downloaded. Which the last portion shows.

Maybe that people stop downloading *gasp* when their download is done?

and people don't try to download 2 fucking games at the same time. Anyone who has steam or even downloads anything big knows why.

Because downloading two whole games at the same damn time fucks with the bandwith. Its as stupid as lighting your dick on fire for male birth control. They also know that downloading games when everyone is downloading takes a lot of time too.

You are assuming that those millions people are technologically challenged in 2013.

and 6 million views for a 15K thread doesn't mean it fucking matters. If no one is posting relative to views, no one gives a rat's ass. They are there to download. The fact out of 86 million only 57,000 are posts proves this. The threads mean nothing.
100 000 = hundred thousand not 100 millions. I didn't even mention the number 100 million in my last post.

Also I am not assuming people are technically challenged, this news article is making that a fair assumption though.

I am saying we shouldn't assume anything. Heck, there are plenty more torrent sites to consider so this isn't the only one that should be considered.

You make assumptions. I ask for proof. Show me some actual proof in your next post that states that about half of GTA V players have pirated it or I'll simply dismiss it.

Also not sure if you know this or not. Different torrents may offer different download speeds it depends on the number of seeders and leechers and the distance between you and the seeders, their connection. You can download something via a torrent and only get 5kb/s because there are few seeders or there's a lot of leechers. You can't compare this to downloading two games from Steam because that can often give you the maximum speed your line can handle regardless thus a second download will slow things down. However you can have various speeds on various torrents.

Now show me that your number is more than an assumption based on the number of views. Show me the actual number of downloads.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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BarbaricGoose said:
(Song works on two levels here.)
Meet the new malware. Same as the old malware.

TopazFusion said:
But secondly, when GTA5 gets released on the PC, it's possible it might become the most pirated PC game in history.
Now, I'm not saying whatt hey did was okay (or smart, because this was really not bright either), buuuuuut, we're talking about the unreleased version of something (theoretically) versus the retail release.

I know people can be a bit shit sometimes, what with folks who will pirate Humble Bundle games you can get for like a penny. But surely, the temptation is stronger with a game that has no clear release date.

Also, we all know it won't be out-pirating The Witcher 2, which was pirated 67 trillion times according to inflated figures pulled from rears.

FalloutJack said:
Well, they sure as hell won't pay for it NOW. This isn't the action you take to get people to cooperate.
Are you operating under the assumption Rockstar did this?
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
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Tanis said:
If you stupid enough to fall for this...
You deserve what's coming to your PC.
With everything that's happening on the Internet, and with the power to be instantly enlightened by two mouseclicks at Google, why do people still fall for this shit?
 

The Lugz

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Apr 23, 2011
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Yopaz said:
Ultratwinkie said:
JoJo said:
Ultratwinkie said:
The first picture has:

18+ million downloads. Only counting the first few 1,000,000+ numbers. That is more than GTA V sold on day fucking 1. Rockstar lost, on console piracy alone, an additional 1.3 billion dollars. Not counting the used game sales that will inevitably come as well.
Those are views, not downloads. It's quite likely many people would have viewed more than one thread, or viewed the same thread several times in the course of working out which was best to download, and lurkers would be added to the tally too. I don't doubt numbers pirated were stupidly huge but there isn't really a reason to assume 18+ million from what you've posted.
86+ million views.

It would only take 18% of viewers to match what GTA V sold on day 1.

Argument is still valid. Piracy is huge on consoles, and the idea that consoles are safe is patently false. It would take over 82% of people viewing the torrent to not pirate it.

No way 82% would just drop that. Even 10% download rates equal half a billion dollars.
You assume those views are different people, but there are also a lot of replies to those threads. A reply to a post means at least 2 views and if someone is browsing through multiple pages, refreshing the site to see if someone has answered a question or something like that a good deal of those views can be dismissed. Your reasoning is flawed because you count 1 view as 1 person and then make an arbitrary number to determine the rate of how many pirates it based on that. 1 person might make up hundreds of views on each of those threads. Someone with a crappy connection might have refreshed the page a good deal of times.

However your point is valid. Piracy isn't a PC exclusive and your image does provide enough of an indication of that even though the numbers of pirated copies is probably a lot lower than what they indicate.
I just want to point something out here, the fact gta did not come to pc is nothing to do with piracy it's entirely to do with the millions sony and M$ threw at them to make it console exclusive, at some point they calculated delaying the pc launch which we know IS coming because of partner leaks ( thanks nvidia ) which nets them more money in the long run therefore they delay away! sony and M$ want to sell off the last stocks of their consoles, so they need an exclusive to put a console in your hands which then earns them money on other titles, microtrans, ect. it's all one big "consumer-cash-exploitation-calculation" which the console users have been trained to believe benefits them, because these companies can play the masses like a harp.

developers and super-corporations are at the very least rational entities even if they do dumb things on occasion they know how torrents work and they know people pirate for consoles just as often as they pirate software for pc's, it's really nothing new it's just with social media being what it is everyone now knows piracy is a thing which means more people are likely to do it

which brings me to the 'wrest control back from the evillll overlords' option:
logical pc gamers just wait patiently and get legitimate software for half the price in a steam / gog / whatever sale knowing full well the arguments, bugs, bullshit and always-on anti-consumer drm abuse has moved onto other titles by then.

I'd rather have a complete and known good experience, than the latest thing at any cost heck it's not like there aren't any other games to play in the meantime.. so, essentially: patience grasshopper.

I'll be getting a bug free 4k, 60fps+ version of gta 5 ( probably half price on steam at some point ) with every mod graphical tweak and performance patch under the sun on top from the modders for free, so really.. patience trumps all.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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The Lugz said:
You're probably right about this. I also haven't made the claim that the delay has to do with piracy. Neither me or Ultrawinkle says that, we both agree that piracy is not a console exclusive. This is a debate concerning the numbers he uses and how he provides no real evidence for them.

I would also add that Rockstar and PC usually doesn't go well together. They make some pretty bad ports so I won't put the blame solely on Microsoft and Sony.
 

Psychobabble

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Aug 3, 2013
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Ultratwinkie said:
JoJo said:
Ultratwinkie said:
The first picture has:

18+ million downloads. Only counting the first few 1,000,000+ numbers. That is more than GTA V sold on day fucking 1. Rockstar lost, on console piracy alone, an additional 1.3 billion dollars. Not counting the used game sales that will inevitably come as well.
Those are views, not downloads. It's quite likely many people would have viewed more than one thread, or viewed the same thread several times in the course of working out which was best to download, and lurkers would be added to the tally too. I don't doubt numbers pirated were stupidly huge but there isn't really a reason to assume 18+ million from what you've posted.
86+ million views.

It would only take 18% of viewers to match what GTA V sold on day 1.

Argument is still valid. Piracy is huge on consoles, and the idea that consoles are safe is patently false. It would take over 82% of people viewing the torrent to not pirate it.

No way 82% would just drop that. Even 10% download rates equal half a billion dollars.
Yep. Console piracy is just as rampant as PC piracy. The mod chip/homebrew/jailbreak underground industry is huge. I'm not sure why so many people still believe that console games are immune.

Anyway on the subject of the GTA flim-flammery ... AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Absolutely fucking beautiful. Remember kids, when something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
 

Micalas

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Proverbial Jon said:
If you know enough about computers to pirate a game then you should also know about the harmful kinds of software.
THIS! A million times this.

If you know how to use Daemon Tools, there's a pretty damn good change you know about malware.
 

The Lugz

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Apr 23, 2011
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Yopaz said:
The Lugz said:
You're probably right about this. I also haven't made the claim that the delay has to do with piracy. Neither me or Ultrawinkle says that, we both agree that piracy is not a console exclusive. This is a debate concerning the numbers he uses and how he provides no real evidence for them.

I would also add that Rockstar and PC usually doesn't go well together. They make some pretty bad ports so I won't put the blame solely on Microsoft and Sony.
Agreed, and apologies if I wasn't being clear, I wasn't trying to correct you both but add a piece of the puzzle so to say as far as the original thoughts of rockstar, other developers and console manufacturers who try to exploit the triple A release schedule to generate more instant revenue ( as is their right, as the content producers ) and that it may be misguided to assume that piracy is the main cause of the delay ( or actual abandonment of the paltform ) to begin with, regardless of the numbers involved since it's nearly impossible to stop piracy anyway

and, yes the math of those torrents is entirely broken.
if 86 million people downloaded gta5, I'd eat my gaming mouse. people just can't handle large numbers. what's listed there is likely just the natural in/out of the torrent network sniffing the .torrent files because even 86 million searches would be an absurd number, just think about it for a moment.

point in case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360
As of June 30, 2013, 78.2 million Xbox 360 consoles have been sold worldwide.
ok, it's a wikipedia reference and may not be entirely correct but 'every xbox owner ever pirated gta 5' is not a line I think anyone can swallow.

so clearly something else is going on.