let's debate piracy and the hypocrisy behind it

[numaiomul]

so i have sensed a broken logic here. potential sales DO NOT EXIST.
those numbers are made up. if a game is pirated 40 milion times it doesn't mean that 40 milion units will be sold if piracy didn't exist. if u think otherwise prove it.
i did

i NEVER said that piracy is not stealing. i AGREE that piracy means STEALING.

Really, now?

i NEVER said that stealing is good or that pirates don't steal. they ALL do and that's why their called pirates but some might buy the game. stealing a DIGITAL property has no money loss for a company but wanting to buy the game for more features is a money gain.

There's a perfect example of hypocrisy, OP.

you fail at explaining. tell me again with arguments why am i a hypocrite?

oh and one last thing. i saw about 3-4 really good post that suport my anti-anti-piracy movement so please read all the posts until u decide to write something.

 

[Danglybits]

Guess what? It isn't. It's just pathetic. Have a real discussion about Piracy instead of trying to paint up a biased picture of it.

let's have a real discusion i'm not pro-piracy but i'm anti-anti-piracy

If Jack is so poor, why doesn't he get a fucking job instead of playing video games all day?

if you want to talk in a forum please read previous posts before jumping head first in a conversion

I believe "Jack" just got owned.

did u really want to say a useles opinion on a serious subject ? :-/

Stealing is wrong. Piracy is stealing. /thread.

Real mature Jesus and sorry because you are a saint and are pure of heart and never in your life have you done anything wrong.

Please, cry me a river. Really, do it. I care. I didn't say anything about my moral character or whether or not I was a pirate, but the is no debate about it. It's stealing. Theft is usually considered wrong. It's like asking if oral sex is adultery.

 

[omega_peaches]

You said that Piracy doesn't effect money that the companies make
When it was released, Spore was pirated approximately 1.7 million times.
It was $50.
That's $85,000,000
That is a lot of money.

 

[FinalDream]

I agree in some respect that piracy statistics are over blown (for lack of a better word), I know for games I have not intention of buying I might be tempted to pirate to see what they are like (I can't because i don't have a pc!), and therefore skewering the static's because I never had any intention of getting it in the first place but to say stealing a digital property has no money loss for a company is absurd. Of course it does, these companies spend millions of £/$'s on building it, do they not have the right to charge someone who would like to play it? Companies do loose money to piracy (not as much as they claim I suspect).

 

[Danglybits]

You are right, my inability to argue due to my intentionally misinterpreting your words causes me shame.

I wonder if pirates ever feel shame? Nah, probably not.

I can confirm you, we don't. Well, most of the time. We usually have a soft spot for indie devs.

Stealing is wrong. Piracy is stealing. /thread.

Stealing is wrong. Piracy is stealing in SOME countries. It's legal here in Spain, as long as there's no intention to make a profit from it. Mwahahaha.

You lucky bastards!

 

[Danglybits]

Okey, this is pro-piracy propaganda. You try and paint up a worst case scenario so your point is more valid.

Piracy is bad for the gaming industry. That's a fact. If not because it lowers sales, then because it increases paranoia with companies like Ubisoft (Read: Latest DRM) If you support it or not is a matter of morals.

Like Audio Cassettes were bad for the music industry? or like VHS was bad for the film industry?

Stealing is wrong. Piracy is stealing. /thread.

http://img.megaleecher.net/uploads/piracy-is-theft.jpg


And as to those who say Pirates are just leaches...I just refer you to....
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/04/study-pirates-buy-tons-more-music-than-average-folks.ars
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

Consider an art gallery. Everyone can go in for free. Some people buy it. Everyone enjoys it. Dismantling internet piracy is like burning down this gallery, fewer people will buy the art, and far fewer will even see it.


But we'll never agree, this argument has gone on for centuries, and there's no way in hell one side is going to back down so screw it.

Did you pay for the original? Did you pay for the copy you made? The art gallery argument really doesn't apply to most video games or anything that is widely available, you can access Spore and ME easily. You just have to give someone money to do so.

 

[aps1984]

Calling Piracy stealing is just hype for effect. I thought we'd sorted all this out. Can people be a bit more mature and stop doing this maybe?

 

[lacktheknack]

so i have sensed a broken logic here. potential sales DO NOT EXIST.
those numbers are made up. if a game is pirated 40 milion times it doesn't mean that 40 milion units will be sold if piracy didn't exist. if u think otherwise prove it.

So let's imagine that piracy didn't happen. And that the game pirated 40 million times wasn't pirated at all.

Let's imagine that, with no alternative, 5% (a rather low number) of the people who WOULD have pirated the game buy it instead.

Also the game costs $50 (also low).

40000000 x 0.05 = 2000000 more customers.

2000000 x $50 = Ten million dollars more.

If piracy didn't exist, then a lot of potential sales would turn into REAL sales (even if just a small percentage).

So, I just proved that piracy does in fact lose the company money.

 

[RathWolf]

so i have sensed a broken logic here. potential sales DO NOT EXIST.
those numbers are made up. if a game is pirated 40 milion times it doesn't mean that 40 milion units will be sold if piracy didn't exist. if u think otherwise prove it.
i did

Okay,
1)You have proven nothing.
1b)Numbers on MW2 piracy here [http://torrentfreak.com/the-most-pirated-games-of-2009-091227/] here [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26647/Report_Modern_Warfare_2_MostPirated_Game_Of_2009.php]
2)It doesn't matter if 100% of those pirated copies translated would translate to actual sales if there was no piracy. Even 10% of those sales is still $24,600,000.
3)Potential sales exist to a degree. Do you honestly think a person who already has the game for free has as much motivation to buy a copy as a person who doesn't?

 

[TPiddy]

You'd be surprised.

The OP's scenario is pretty common in countries which don't speak english as a native language and whose name isn't known by every american you meet on the street (okay, that's pushing it, though i digress). Piracy can't be called pure stealing because it's not, it's copying. If you could afford a game that you like but still don't buy it because you're a prick, then that's a morally degradable, pretty much non-excusable act. However, if you can't afford a game (and know that you'll never be able to afford it in the future, or plan on buying it when you can afford it) but pirate it anyway, nobody loses anything, and you gain something.

So if the OP lives in a relatively poor country, how is it that he can afford high-speed internet and a computer capable of playing said pirated games?

Very few pirates ever buy the games they steal after trying them out. They had no intentions of buying the game in the first place.

Where most of the people on here have a problem is that we are paying for the games and the rights to enjoy them, and yet other people are able to reap the benefits of that for free. We support the developers while pirates abuse them.

It's like when I'm riding the bus and I see someone jump on the back or otherwise get on for free. If I have to pay, why shouldn't he? Because he's a douchebag and I'm not? Is that fair? No, so of course I'm going to hate the douchebag. I won't hate the transit system because I have an appreciation for it and I rely on it. As such, all of my hatred is directed towards the abusers of the system.

 

[Entropyutd]

@atomictoast:my fictional character has an download speed of about 300kb/s and he got it thanks to his mother which "convinced" some staff people to throw some internet his way.
the computer is a 3 year model mostly comprised of gifts/thrash from friends for which jack will be forever thankful.
@sober thal: pirates aren't stealing from you and piracy doesn't affect sales in the least. If people can buy a game they really want they will because they know it will be better having all the features and stuff except some rune down broken pirated copy. if people won't buy a game they MIGHT buy it after really enjoying it after pirating it and probably buy it afterward.

Ummm how about you and Jack stop trying to justify the fact that you and Jack are thieves?
You can use the same argument for shoplifting, in fact stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family is a more understandable crime.

The I'll buy it after is just an excuse too, I don't know too many people who would play a game again after they have completed it, let alone pay money they cannot afford to play it again.

How about this scenario:-


Jacks mom is delighted to have a job working on reception at Doobisoft.
She will earn enough to pay for Jack's college tuition and finally drag the family up from below the poverty line.

Jack is delighted because she can get him free games, he knows he likes Doobisoft's games because he has several downloaded on his HDD.

The joy is short lived however, a few weeks later Jack's mom is told unfortunatly she will be laid off because the last quarter profits fell drastically and the company can no longer afford 2 receptionists.

 

[TheTaco007]

I could spew some crap about how it's like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich to give to the poor, only with media and entertainment instead of money, or we could just sing a damn song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AzpByR3MvI

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

So, being broke justifies piracy?

I gotta say...I hope that Jack dies.

Call it extreme...but hey, a human life is worth very little to me. Even a non-pirate, or even myself.

 

[shadow skill]

Calling Piracy stealing is just hype for effect. I thought we'd sorted all this out. Can people be a bit more mature and stop doing this maybe?

Obviously not. If you walk into a book store pick up a book on the shelf and sit down and read the whole thing you are not a thief. Oh and for the record no content creator or distributor can be said to have the right to make a profit.

 

[Plurralbles]

The thing is, you paint a picture that ends up proving the point of why Jack has no business playing games in the first place, let alone if he pays for them.

 

[PhiMed]

okay i had enough. i am speaking with 2 year old. i NEVER said that piracy is not stealing. i AGREE that piracy means STEALING. can we please now stop with that freaking argument? no one here is a saint so just shut up with the anti-piracy bravado. your are companies fanboys.
i am not making piracy propaganda but if companies don't start to adress the problem like an integral part of sales they won't advance. NOTHING EVER evolved if it was not constantly challenged.
oh and next time some says something about DRM and stuff just to something about it and stop blaming other people. if you have money for games you have money for internet so the DRM should be no problem to you all.

No problem? A system that renders a game unplayable unless your internet connection is functioning is no problem? A system that causes your game to end without saving if you have so much as an instantaneous hiccup in your connection (on your side or theirs) is no problem?

You're trying to justify Jack's behavior by trying to emphasize that there's a grey area here, but you're seriously asserting that his actions have absolutely no negative impact on anyone else's life? Kind of a doube standard there.

Grow up, man.

 

[Tenky]

I'd like to just make a point objectively here...

Trying to make piracy "seem alright" because you can't afford things and you have it worse than anyone... it's pretty lame! Games/Music/TV/Media are NOT essential to your everyday life!

Let me put it a way my parents told me when they raised me:

"If you can't affort if, you can't have it!"

If you really want it, save up some money or do like the average american... Bury yourself in credit debt just for the sake of things you don't need like a 50'' TV and whatnot that you'll be paying for the next 20 years.

That way you're not a criminal, you don't break the law.

It's not unfair that you can't get that game while all your friends have it... it's how it work... this is how life will go for most of it!

 

[pneuma08]

at least 80% who pirate don't have money for games but when they will turn out money and they liked a pirated game and want more they WILL BUY it.

Actually, no. Your worldview is as colored as the ones you are railing against.

I've known people who pirate games and do have plenty of money, but they'd rather spend it on other things (or spend their money poorly). I know people who cannot afford games and pirate them. I doubt there will ever be a true statistic on peoples' motivations, and so the only logical thing would be to not rely on what "seems" to be true. There are no arguments in this line of reasoning that hold water.

To Jack: as said before, you have no right to games. Count yourself lucky that you have some form of electronic entertainment and the time to spend entertaining yourself. I hate to delve into cliche, but not everyone has food everyday, and not everyone has heat or protection from wind and rain, let alone electricity, TV, and internet. Gaming may be the cool thing to do, but if you really want to help your country get out of its economic funk, you should teach yourself marketable skills instead of wasting your time playing games.