Let's talk frankly about Nintendo

[Saltyk]

So in my time here, I've seen a lot of threads decrying how much people hate Nintendo. Threads defending Nintendo from the haters who defame the great mother company. But, I never see these offending threads. Ever. So I figured, why not make one? Why not make one of these mythical "I hate Nintendo" threads that fans of the Big N insist exist?

So, on that note, let's begin by explaining why Nintendo just plain sucks as a company.
(I'm using spoiler tags because it's a lot to go over. It's certainly TLR territory)

Amiibos

Spoiler

Nintendo is trying to capitilize on the popularity of Sky Landers and Disney Infinity with this glorified physical DLC. Now, the big problem is the forced scarcity.

I have a friend who collects Amiibos and it's practically a job. He's constantly looking for news on when the new Ammibos will be available for preorder and where he has to go to get certain ones. He recently complained to me about Gamestop waiting til the last minute to confirm a event to preorder some new Ammibos despite knowing about the event due to a leak.

On top of that, he has shown me his collection and explained which ones are "Uncommon", "Rare", "Store Exclusive Rares" and so on. And I can't help but feel that is frustrating for fans, especially children and their parents.

Oh, and he hasn't taken any out of a box. And swears he won't.

The other problem is I see definite parallels between Amiibo and on disc DLC, especially in the case of Amiibos that add additional content, like the Squid Kid and Squid Girl. Splatoon Amiibos allow you to access additional challenges. But why couldn't these challenges be accessed normally? I'm fairly confident the content is on the disc. So many people have issues with on disc DLC, but this is actually worse. And it's only compounded by the forced rarity.

In addition, it sort of sucks to buy a game and not be able to buy the DLC because you can't find it.

Gimmicks

Spoiler

The Big N loves gimmicks. And they always have. Going back to the NES, we find gimmicks like the Power Glove and ROB, which was literally less useful than pressing the buttons on the second controller yourself. And they have continued to embrace these gimmicks over the years, with systems like the Virtual Boy, a gimmick that failed miserably, and even the DS and Wii.

The problem is that while gimmicks may work for handhelds, a market they dominate largely due to lack of healthy competition I suspect, but it doesn't work in the console market. Developing a game for two traditional systems and also the motion controller system, with less power, is a daunting prospect. One that developers eventually opted out of.

Speaking of...

Third Party Support

Spoiler

Now, it's no secret that Third Party developers seem to avoid Nintendo like it has leprosy. One reason for this is the aforementioned gimmicks. Even if the Wii were as powerful as the PS3 and 360, it would take a bit of effort to make a game work take advantage of the motion control. Sure, they could ignore that, but then that ignores the Wii's entire purpose! On top of that, the Wii was a weaker system. Really is it any wonder that "Multi-Platform" came to mean "PS3 and 360, but not Wii"?

However, Nintendo doesn't even care about third party support. Several people have commented on how similar the guts of the PS4 and X1 are. However, there is a reason for that. Both Sony and Microsoft actually asked third party developers what they would like to see in new consoles. They took in mind the responses and built their new consoles to meet those suggestions.

Nintendo, in contrast, didn't care and just threw together what they wanted to make the Wii U. Nintendo makes their consoles for Nintendo. If other developers can't deal with that, so what? Don't believe me? Why do you think FFVII was the first Final Fantasy to leave the Nintendo platform? Because Square was planning for a disc based system, and Nintendo went with cartridges. Square had no choice but to move to Sony.

Also, looking at the software sales on the various consoles, I can't help but notice that Nintendo consoles Top 10 games are dominated by Nintendo published games. Even dating back to the NES. The lowest was the SNES with only 8 of the Top 10 being Nintendo published.

Really, the only reason to buy a Nintendo console is the exclusives. As much quality as they might have, they can't sustain a console alone. I most certainly won't buy a console for one or two games.

Console Sales

Spoiler

I'm going to list global console sales for each Nintendo console, excluding handhelds, in chronological order[footnote]According to VGChartz.com [http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/][/footnote]. Tell me if you notice a pattern.

NES: 61.91 Million
SNES: 49.1 Million
N64: 32.93 Million
GameCube: 21.74 Million[footnote]This is less than the current PS4 sales (24.77 Million).[/footnote]
Wii: 101.17 Million
Wii U: 10.14 Million

Ignoring the Wii, each console has sold almost 10 million less than it's predecessor. Yes, while the Wii U is still technically Nintendo's current console, with rumors of the NX and a new console coming out in the next few years, its days seem numbered. I seriously doubt that the Wii U will surpass the GameCube at this rate, unless Mario Maker is able to move systems, but if Smash didn't, I doubt even a game as cool as Mario Maker will.

Breaking it down further:

The NES had virtually no competition. None really worth mentioning, baring the Genesis/Mega Drive. It pretty much saved the gaming industry, so much love to the machine.

The SNES had stiff competition from the Genesis, which sold 29.54 Million. Assuming the market didn't see much growth and several people probably had both systems, we can probably assume that the Genesis did take a bite out of the SNES sales.

However, the N64 lost a lot of ground in the market, roughly 16 million units. In contrast, the competition, the PS1 sold 104.25 million units making it the forth best console of all time. This includes handhelds and even bests the best selling Nintendo console, the Wii. The market had to grow, so how did the system lose ground? Especially considering how much love you hear for the N64 with games like Mario 64 and Star Fox 64.

GameCube had substantial competition in the PS2 (the best selling console of all time with 157.68 Million sold) and the Xbox (with 24.65 million sold). It was even the more powerful system. Yet, it seems what lost the race was that it lacked versatility. The PS2 could be used to play DVDs, for example. The Game Cube lacked such functionality. It also probably helped that we were seeing a lot of variety in the games on the PS2 and even the Xbox, as well. GameCube's top selling game barely broke 7 million units sold.

This brings us to the Wii, the most gimmicky console of all. The thing is that the gimmick worked. Everyone and their grandma bought a Wii. Quite literally. The Wii embraced a "casual" market that the competition was largely happy to ignore. But looking at software sales, we can see that the casual games were a heavy favorite on the system. 5 of the Top 10 were casual games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. It's six if we count Just Dance 3, the only third party game to crack the Top 10 on the Wii. Take out the more casual games and the list looks very different, though games like New Super Mario Bros Wii and Mario Galaxy still pulled respectably numbers. And I ask, how many people do you know that didn't touch their Wii for a year at a time?

Finally, we have the Wii U. The little console that couldn't. Despite every advantage going in, the Wii U has sold fewer units than even the X1 (13.57 Million units). I think we can see two major problems with the Wii U. First off, the gimmick isn't as fun to look at. Yes, the tablet is great in some games, like Mario Party 10, but it's not as fun as watching someone awkwardly "bowl" in the living room. And tablets aren't unique or uncommon. Plenty of people have tablets at home. The other major issue is the name. I have talked to people who didn't even know the Wii U was a console, they thought it was a controller. And when I explained this to them, they asked me what it looks like, and I couldn't even tell them. I've played on a Wii U and I still couldn't tell you what it looks like off the top of my head. And the marketing didn't really do anything to aide this dilemma.

Spoiler: Just look at the original trailer

Be honest. If you didn't know the Wii U was a console, would you have known that was advertising a new console? Or would you have thought that was for a new controller?

The bottom line is this, though. Nintendo consoles seem to be selling less and less as time goes on. Nintendo has to do something to curb this exodus from their system. Or they may have to go the route of Sega...

The Games/Characters

Spoiler

I don't think I'm surprising anyone when I say that Nintendo games are very formulaic. In more than a few Mario games, Mario runs right, jumps on turtles, and saves Princess Peach. Zelda always follows Link as he gets the Master Sword and saves Zelda from the clutches of Ganon/Ganondorf. In Pokemon, a ten year old goes on a journey to capture cute animals, beat trainers, collect badges, and become a Pokemon master. If you've played a Nintendo game, you pretty much know the story of every game in the franchise. And the gameplay isn't really changing much either.

Now, I'm not saying the games are of poor quality, I already stated that the games are of good quality earlier. However, the stories never change. The gameplay only really evolves due to new consoles. Can you even tell me a single actual character trait of Mario, other than the fact that he's brave or Italian? Link? Samus?

For comparison sake, the Final Fantasy series has changed greatly over the years. The first game was just the Warriors of Light fighting evil and not much more than that. The characters had no personality and the gameplay was basic. But over time, the gameplay changed. We got more jobs and summons, and the ATB system. We got characters with personality that actually mattered in the plot, like Cecil, Terra, Cloud, and Zidane. Yes, some of the changes are not for the best. But at least the series has evolved and grown with time.

After nearly 30 years, shouldn't Mario and Donkey Kong have some more character than plumber or lover of bananas? Shouldn't we have more variety in Nintendo games? Where's Nintendo's Last of Us that touches so many people due to it's story?

Bottom Line
Nintendo is not perfect. No company is. No, not even that one you really like. They make mistakes and have problems. Refusing to acknowledge that is not helping anyone. Least of all the company you claim to support. I bring up these issues, not because I hate Nintendo, but because I want Nintendo to be better.

Nintendo has been pretty consistently profitable, to say the least. So I doubt they are going anywhere. They likely are here for a long time, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss legitimate issues. Especially for a company like Nintendo that basically represents the gaming industry in the minds of so many people.

Now, I wouldn't be complaining if I could play the next Zelda game on my PS4, but I'm not holding my breath. Nintendo doesn't seem to be going that route and maybe they are learning from their mistakes with what I am hearing about the NX. Time will tell.

Now, rather than tell me that there is more than one Pokemon Stadium game and I'm a hater for not realizing that, why not add to the conversation? Do you see other issues with Nintendo? Is Nintendo the greatest company ever? What makes them so great?

Also, can I just take a moment to say that this OP is way bigger than I thought it would be? I didn't even hate on Nintendo as much as I thought I would.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Nintendo doesn't seem to be going that route and maybe they are learning from their mistakes with what I am hearing about the NX. Time will tell.

Even if they did, they're still caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to bring out a new competitive console fast, since the Wii-U is drowning like a sad horse. But by doing so they'll likely piss off a lot of Wii-U owners for ditching the console so quickly. I know I'm not touching the NX after getting shafted on the Wii-U like that.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

 

[Saltyk]

Nintendo doesn't seem to be going that route and maybe they are learning from their mistakes with what I am hearing about the NX. Time will tell.

Even if they did, they're still caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to bring out a new competitive console fast, since the Wii-U is drowning like a sad horse. But by doing so they'll likely piss off a lot of Wii-U owners for ditching the console so quickly. I know I'm not touching the NX after getting shafted on the Wii-U like that.

Spoiler: Relevant

A fair point. I know any interest I had in a Wii U was lost once the rumors of the NX started. Buying a system when a new one is around the corner is not something I would recommend. Especially when the system is still fairly new. And I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for holding it against Nintendo for abandoning a fairly new system.

Hopefully, for the sake of Wii U owners Nintendo continues to support the system for a while.

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

The whole point of this thread was actually to create one of these threads. I can't help but feel you assumed this thread was complaining about the Nintendoom predictions and posted without reading.

Allow me to quote myself.

So in my time here, I've seen a lot of threads decrying how much people hate Nintendo. Threads defending Nintendo from the haters who defame the great mother company. But, I never see these offending threads. Ever. So I figured, why not make one? Why not make one of these mythical "I hate Nintendo" threads that fans of the Big N insist exist?

So, on that note, let's begin by explaining why Nintendo just plain sucks as a company.

I did at least try to include some legitimate complaints, like how Amiibos are glorified DLC with forced rarity, or Nintendo's horrible marketing of the Wii U. I even included the harsh truth of Nintendo's sales history, which is not very encouraging. It is, however, much longer than I originally intended. I can't help but feel that is off putting for a lot of people.

Or maybe you intended to post this in that other thread?

 

[Lunar Templar]

Amiibo's a side I'd rather Nintendo keep on keeping on then cave and start being another PS4 or XBone. They may not be perfect, but when I hear 'new Nintendo console' I'm at least a little interested in what they're gonna be trying, rather then with the PS4 and XBone which was just a graphical upgrade and more shit stuffed in you don't need.

whee ....

that and there's no real reason to care which system you have between the PS4 and XBone, with every thing being cross platform any more, and exclusives being virtually non existent, remind me again why I should even buy a console when pretty much every thing worth playing will be on Steam as well? Formulaic as Nintendo's exclusives are, they still are providing a reason to exist.

as for the Amiibo's

I'll just say, I had a choice between the Samus Amiibo and the Figma Samus, I got the Figma cause it was a better value due to all the scalpers.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Nintendo doesn't seem to be going that route and maybe they are learning from their mistakes with what I am hearing about the NX. Time will tell.

Even if they did, they're still caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to bring out a new competitive console fast, since the Wii-U is drowning like a sad horse. But by doing so they'll likely piss off a lot of Wii-U owners for ditching the console so quickly. I know I'm not touching the NX after getting shafted on the Wii-U like that.

Spoiler: Relevant

A fair point. I know any interest I had in a Wii U was lost once the rumors of the NX started. Buying a system when a new one is around the corner is not something I would recommend. Especially when the system is still fairly new. And I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for holding it against Nintendo for abandoning a fairly new system.

Hopefully, for the sake of Wii U owners Nintendo continues to support the system for a while.

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

The whole point of this thread was actually to create one of these threads. I can't help but feel you assumed this thread was complaining about the Nintendoom predictions and posted without reading.

Allow me to quote myself.

So in my time here, I've seen a lot of threads decrying how much people hate Nintendo. Threads defending Nintendo from the haters who defame the great mother company. But, I never see these offending threads. Ever. So I figured, why not make one? Why not make one of these mythical "I hate Nintendo" threads that fans of the Big N insist exist?

So, on that note, let's begin by explaining why Nintendo just plain sucks as a company.

I did at least try to include some legitimate complaints, like how Amiibos are glorified DLC with forced rarity, or Nintendo's horrible marketing of the Wii U. I even included the harsh truth of Nintendo's sales history, which is not very encouraging. It is, however, much longer than I originally intended. I can't help but feel that is off putting for a lot of people.

Or maybe you intended to post this in that other thread?

Ha you right. My bad. I saw the word "hated" and stop reading there assuming that it was another doom and gloom thread. It was my fault. I apologize.

 

[Pseudonym]

A thread about nintendo made with some self awareness? What is this sorcery?

The Games/Characters
I don't think I'm surprising anyone when I say that Nintendo games are very formulaic. In more than a few Mario games, Mario runs right, jumps on turtles, and saves Princess Peach. Zelda always follows Link as he gets the Master Sword and saves Zelda from the clutches of Ganon/Ganondorf. In Pokemon, a ten year old goes on a journey to capture cute animals, beat trainers, collect badges, and become a Pokemon master. If you've played a Nintendo game, you pretty much know the story of every game in the franchise. And the gameplay isn't really changing much either.

I can't agree with this. (some zelda spoilers ahead) Of the three zelda games I've played (Windwaker, Majorra's mask and Link between worlds) Ganondorf appears in one of them, two if you count ganondorf as merely the incarnation of the triforce of power but at least LBW's (semi-)ganondorf is quite different from Windwakers. Zelda appears in two of those games. Two of those games are fully 3d, and one of them is semi 3d in a very clever way. The closest comparison I can think of to LBW's camera perspective is Fez which I haven't played yet. The combat is quite different in all three (even if majorra's combat mostly differs from windwakers in that it sucks) since one of them has a lock on, threedimensional context sensitive combat system and one of them has a top down reflex based one and lets just not talk about majorra's combat. All three of those games have distinctly different art styles as well. Storywise these three games also differ quite a bit. LBW takes us to a world where the triforce no longer exists and features the interaction of two worlds that are both severely messed up, one because of the trifocre cycle of violence and misery and another because of not having the triforce and thus not even having hope for a link to save the world from the evils that exist even without a ganondorf. Windwaker features a flooded hyrule and a failed attempt to end the triforce cycle and as a result has a rather new and different world to discover. Majorra has a story seperate from the triforce, feautures a unique three-day cycle which means it has actual good timetravel gameplay and has one of the best antagonists in video games ever in that creep skull kid.

Maybe I haven't played enough zelda games to see them repeating themselves as much as you do or maybe I just played the highlights but I really can't agree that the gameplay, story or artstyle remains the same. Most zelda games, from what I know are in the same world and center around the triforce cycle of doom. That much is true but even of the zelda games I haven't played, some are fully 2d and others fully 3d and while are most are fully single player, there are still four swords and triforce heroes.

I won't go into mario but I'll point out that in a gameplayfocussed line of games like that I can hardly imagine there not being differences between the 2d ones and the 3d ones or between the ones that require motion control and those that don't. Same thing with Metroid.

With Pokemon I agree a bit more but even then I'll point out that Speed used to increase crit chance (My pokemon red dugtrio could use slash with a near perfect crit chance), that the difference between special and physical attacks used to be typebound, that physical defense did not exist, that steel, dark and fairy type did not exist, that there used to be no double or triple battles and no mega-evolutions etc. These might seem small things but so do your FF examples seem like small things to me.

As a teacher of mine once said: everything looks alike if you ignore enough of the details.

Now, I'm not saying the games are of poor quality, I already stated that the games are of good quality earlier. However, the stories never change. The gameplay only really evolves due to new consoles.

This just seems like a non-argument. If something changes, it changes, whatever caused the change. That makes it less stale than certain franchises which never change, new console generation or not.

Can you even tell me a single actual character trait of Mario, other than the fact that he's brave or Italian? Link? Samus?

No but the same goes for most video game charactars. Video game stories typically don't have charactars with depth. Main charactars of video games are typically not greatly improved by adding too much background story as it takes away a lot of player input. I do remember Tetra, the King of red lions and Skull Kid.

For comparison sake, the Final Fantasy series has changed greatly over the years. The first game was just the Warriors of Light fighting evil and not much more than that. The characters had no personality and the gameplay was basic. But over time, the gameplay changed. We got more jobs and summons, and the ATB system. We got characters with personality that actually mattered in the plot, like Cecil, Terra, Cloud, and Zidane. Yes, some of the changes are not for the best. But at least the series has evolved and grown with time.

You have a rather strange way of arguing your case here. You've just named some things various nintendo games have in common and some things that differ in FF games and concluded that the former is more stale than the latter.

After nearly 30 years, shouldn't Mario and Donkey Kong have some more character than plumber or lover of bananas?

I haven't played the mario RPG games but I imagine that is the place to look for charachtar. In any case, my answer is no. In fact, I'd wish 343 would stop trying to shove a personality down master chunks throath. He was rather bland in the halo games that I actually like and that was fine with me. Some games can just focus on the gameplay and can throw in some charactars as background decoration or as a host to experience the world through.

Shouldn't we have more variety in Nintendo games?

Chibi robo, splatoon, pikmin, little kings story, punchout, no more heroes, madworld, pokemon snap, animal crossing and more are all games exclusive to nintendo platforms which you might find a lot less formulaic than nintendo's bigger hitters.

Where's Nintendo's Last of Us that touches so many people due to it's story?

It's called Legend of Zelda: Majorra's Mask. Everybody knows that moon. Most people who've played it remember the atmosphere that the moon so perfectly symbolises. In five years we'll have to see if most people remember Joel and Ellie.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

One major problem I have is they are so behind the times on online support. I do not own a wii u, but my housemate does, which is how I get to experience all of this. But Nintendo has awful online support.

Voice chat seems to be all over the place with when you can or can't use it, and making a friend over a game is near impossible as it seems you can only ever hear them when their already on your friends list.

The net code (at least on smash) seems to be abysmal, with the second game on-wards with any player being plagued with progressively worse lag. First games can often be buttery smooth, only to feel like you're being dragged face first over gravel after that.

Finally their dlc strategy/pricing is awful. Even if we ignore the amibo situation. Single smash characters are expensive off release, and for some reason, come with less than their on disc counterparts. Like customs? Fuck you, you don't get that. Even skins are stupid. Hey, buy a skin you can never use online because the character is not allowed online.

These are my personal issues with what Nintendo is doing in the modern age. But everything listed already, I do agree with as well. But I really think they need to pick up their game in the online area. They are sorely behind the times.

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's called Legend of Zelda: Majorra's Mask. Everybody knows that moon. Most people who've played it remember the atmosphere that the moon so perfectly symbolises. In five years we'll have to see if most people remember Joel and Ellie.

Well, probably, since 5 years is peanuts. And it's already been 2 years since that game got released, so we're nearly halfway there already.

It seems like kind of a moot point to claim one is more memorable than the other -Something we like or that made an impact on us is always going to be more memorable than something we don't or didn't.

 

[hermes]

You have to understand one thing to justify the Nintendo treatment of third parties. They always treat them like a mob boss: if you are part of the family, you are in for a ride. If you are not, expect a kick in the guts from us. It has been the historical position of Nintendo since the NES days and, while it improved when they lost the grip on the market after the 64 generation, it still lingers in the culture of the company.

During the NES to N64 generations (the Yamauchi years), Nintendo was a monopoly. They made the licenses, built the cartridges and controlled the demand, for all the games in their console. In other words, Nintendo decided which games would be made, when they would be released and how much they would sale. They could go as far as stop producing third party games if they competed with their properties in sales or if they needed the factories to focus on their new games, and even if games didn't meet sales expectations, Nintendo was safe from backlash because the publisher already paid for the produced cartridges. They stopped the production of games for a company if they were approached by the competition, or discovered foul play (like using an alternative to the overpriced and poorly made Nintendo development kit, made by Nintendo, of course), unilaterally, without as much as a notification.

As you may guess, these attitudes never sit well with 3rd party developers and publishers, and for years the (official) response from Nintendo was "our way or the highway". That is why it looks like they don't care for 3rd party developers and the feeling is mutual, because they don't... The higher ups consider 3rd parties as a nuisance (at the best of times), or competition at worst; and 3rd parties are not too happy with a company that look with nostalgia at the time when it had them under a boot.

 

[Fulbert]

All this "hate" is very much justified and very well articulated, my regards to the OP. But the bottomline for an ordinary game player like myself (or what do you call them? gamers?) is that Nintendo offers a variety of unique high quality games that cannot be played elsewhere. So while Wii U might not be the best choice as your only console, it is definitely an interesting machine to complement a mainstream console or a gaming PC. And while both Xbox and PS4 are crucial in the current videogaming environment, mostly by keeping each other's anti-consumer tendencies in check, Nintendo's Wii U, for all its ills, is just as important, by virtue of being different yet still relevant.

 

[Michael Legault]

With regards to the "Where is Nitendo's the Last of us?" They do make Fire Emblem, which is kinda the Dark Souls of tactical RPGs which is something at least.

 

[Something Amyss]

The other problem is I see definite parallels between Amiibo and on disc DLC, especially in the case of Amiibos that add additional content, like the Squid Kid and Squid Girl.

These are parallel in the sense that being drunk and drinking too much alcohol are parallels. It literally is on-Disc content. And given it's tied to a figure, you're paying more for (almost certainly) less. What amazes me is that people will praise Nintendo for ODC.

In addition, it sort of sucks to buy a game and not be able to buy the DLC because you can't find it.[/spoiler]

Kind of dedeats the purpose, too.

Gimmicks

Spoiler

The Big N loves gimmicks. And they always have. Going back to the NES, we find gimmicks like the Power Glove and ROB, which was literally less useful than pressing the buttons on the second controller yourself. And they have continued to embrace these gimmicks over the years, with systems like the Virtual Boy, a gimmick that failed miserably, and even the DS and Wii.[/quote]

Say what you will for the Virtual Boy, but I respect this attempt more than I do the Wii U. There was a time when even Nintendo's failures were considered ground-breaking. Now it's almost literally "tablets are popular, let's put a tablet in our game system."

Oh, and the 3DS proves that even a gimmick can't keep them from losing business on their handheld market when competing with smartphones. It's a competent system, but remember how the 3D worked out initially. They had to slash prices and then make it up to early adopters.

Sure, they could ignore that, but then that ignores the Wii's entire purpose!

Some of my favourite DS games make no use of the touch elements of the device. I don't think it's purpose-defeating.

Really, the only reason to buy a Nintendo console is the exclusives.

That's the only real reason to buy a console, period.

Nintendo has to do something to curb this exodus from their system.

Do they? Their first-party titles are still big movers.

Now, I'm not saying the games are of poor quality, I already stated that the games are of good quality earlier. However, the stories never change. The gameplay only really evolves due to new consoles. Can you even tell me a single actual character trait of Mario, other than the fact that he's brave or Italian? Link? Samus?

Who's playing these specific games for character development, though? seriously, who?

Cloud

Most people I've talked to can tell you as much about Mario or Link as about Cloud. Maybe that's different for the "true" fans, but they're hardly the measure of how established someone is.

After nearly 30 years, shouldn't Mario and Donkey Kong have some more character than plumber or lover of bananas? Shouldn't we have more variety in Nintendo games? Where's Nintendo's Last of Us that touches so many people due to it's story?[/spoiler]

Why do they need one? Why does Mario need a personality? Why can't there be a market for games that are simple platformers?

This bumps against two of my philosophies regarding video games:

1. There's room at the table for everyone. That means that you can have story-lite games and still have TLOUs. Pokémon and GTA. Depression Quest and Dark Souls. Indie and AAA. Plants vs Zombies and Silent Hi...okay, bad example, because Konami is Konami.

2. There's nothing wrong with more of the same if more of the same is still fun. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel if people are sitll enjoying it. Mario games are a good example. Hell, I would probably buy a 2D Zelda every year if they remained fun.

Nintendo has been pretty consistently profitable, to say the least. So I doubt they are going anywhere.

Well, they're a business with investors to please. Their past history has little to do with how much their business can absorb. In the "Nintendoom" thread, someone pointed out they could post billion dollar losses for decades, but that's not strictly true. I mean, they have the cash reserve, but even a few bad quarters/years is enough for a shakeup.

Even if they did, they're still caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to bring out a new competitive console fast, since the Wii-U is drowning like a sad horse. But by doing so they'll likely piss off a lot of Wii-U owners for ditching the console so quickly. I know I'm not touching the NX after getting shafted on the Wii-U like that.

This is why I (and it seems a lot of people) stopped buying Sega consoles. I mean, one console probably won't doom them, but who knows if it stops here? Hell, Nintendo's already kind of pulled a Sega with the New 3DS. Rather than just being one of their usual 80 hardware revisions, it's a handheld with titles that will be exclusive to it. And unless one of them is a core Pokémon title, I'll pass.

The problem as I see it, however, is that the console won't necessarily be competitive. There are rumours it'll be close to parity with the Xbone and PS4, but tech specs didn't save the GameCube.

 

[Dragonbums]

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

Well once upon a time before the whole [debate that will not be named.] ravished the forums and made this site a barren wasteland there were at least a couple of notable users who always made threads whinging about people whinging about Nintendo.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Nintendo is only in danger of making more consoles that only appeal to Nintendo's core fanbase, thereby shrinking there revenue source for consoles. It's been happening since the N64, with the Wii being the exception. The only reasons why the situation isn't anywhere as serious as Sega's or Atari's are because they've had a massive majority in the handheld sector for almost three decades and they have been careful with the piggy bank they've been putting more into ever since the NES made them a household name. They'll be around for a long time and will continued making consoles, even if those consoles don't outsell the competition. (They're stubborn and rich enough to never go third party, as much as I hate buying another box just to play the few Ninty titles that I like).

My main complaint is that Nintendo guarded their piggy bank like a dragon roosting on its pile of treasure, instead of investing more into the Wii U when it was young. They are several popular franchises of theirs that are still collecting dust and they could have increased the install base more by funding games like they did with Bayonetta. Maybe the investors will pressure the leadership to actually try that with the next console.

ROB was a gimmick, but it was Nintendo's most important one. It was the way Nintendo got stores that were sore from the NA 83' crash to stock the NES. If they didn't break into the NA console market then, someone else might have gotten a head start in reviving it a year or two later.

Edit: Maybe the success of ROB's true purpose is why they like gimmicks so much. The only gimmicky console that flopped was the rushed Virtual Boy. Everything else was at least somewhat successful or an accessory that wasn't a huge loss.

The gimmick thing is at least bitting them in the ass. The 3DS was doing poorly had to get a price drop to pick itself up (plus the library was limited until around the price drop, so this is a partial example). The Wii U is... well, we all know about that. Even the Wii puttered out around 2010 while the other guys were still getting consistent quality releases, forcing them to kick start the next console cycle.

[snip]

^This is one reason why veteran third parties likely stay away from Nintendo, or at least they did during the N64 and Gamecube years. Even with someone who doesn't hold a grunge against Big N, it doesn't help that every Nintendo console since the N64 has had some sort of limitation the competition didn't have. (N64 - expensive, low capacity carts to discs, Gamecube - lower capacity 8 cm discs, Wii and Wii U lower powered hardware) Unless you were willing to work with Nintendo to access their install base, the friendlier competition will equal or larger install bases were the obvious choice.

Now even if they have good offers for third parties, making an exclusive game (or even a port) on their home console isn't worth the investment. The market shares of the competitors are more enticing.

 

[FPLOON]

Amiibo: Unlike Disney Infinity and, especially, Skylanders, they don't block you from continuing through the game's respected story, let alone block you from essential content in question... The key words being "story" and "essential"... As far as I'm aware of, none of those words apply to any amiibo's core functionality... unless you want to count Animal Crossing, which has the cards instead of the figurines, for example...

Gimmicks: Well, then... There's nothing I can do to explain the difference between a gimmick and just doing something unconventionally, so I'll just say that since a good chunk of developers hate developing on something they're not "familiar" with, it "coincidentally" coincides with something being called a "gimmick" by default... unless it's becomes super popular, then it's labeled as an "innovation" instead...

Third Party Support: See "Gimmicks", I guess...

Console Sales: Numbers can be a *****, yet I don't see how it can be a cause of one's hatred outside of a "practical" reason, I guess...

The Games/Characters: Are the games fun? They can be when you give them a chance... Do the characters have personality? They do through gameplay, which is apparently the double-edge sword of story-telling when it comes to video games... Also, drama is never the absolution when it comes to feeling emotional because comedy can do that, too...

Bottom Line: Despite acknowledging their flaws/faults, they still have more good than bad executions under their general repertoire... Then again, I leave all my favorite companies to their own devices until they crash and burn of their own accord, so there's that...

Other than that, some third parties should really stop their side of the "self-fulfilled prophecy" when it comes to Nintendo's "gimmicks", especially when we end up with other companies start doing the exact same thing later on down the line in the name of "innovation"... Seriously, it's like looking at Nintendo as that one old sage that offers Link a sword, only Link ignores it until Link sees other Links with a sword in their hand... and by then, it's too late because the old sage has moved on to include swords that turn into axes...

 

[CrystalShadow]

I'm honestly surprised you've never run into an actual 'people hate nintendo' discussion.
I've seen tons of them.

Not recently, but... They have been a persistent thing for so long, you'd figure they'd have to end eventually.

~shrug~ Most of these things have been said a million times. Most of the same suggestions have been made. Most of the same complaints, most of the same replies.
And that's just in this thread itself.

That should tell you how worn out this discussion actually is.

Of course, I would still challenge the assertion made somewhere in this thread that nintendo is dropping Wii U support 'early', or that they announced the NX way too soon.
They announced it pretty much within months of the timeframe they've done every announcement since the N64.

New consoles get announced around halfway through the life of the old one. It amuses me that a continuation of a trend going back 20 years at least makes people panic now...

 

[NiPah]

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

Well once upon a time before the whole [debate that will not be named.] ravished the forums and made this site a barren wasteland there were at least a couple of notable users who always made threads whinging about people whinging about Nintendo.

You were put into what's his name's place after he fell silent, elected to counter any negative Nintendo threads! But there hasn't been any recently, I've missed you.

 

[Bellvedere]

Some valid complaints and some complaints based on preference (the Games/Characters section). All been said before. Clearly what Nintendo does works for some people (at least to the extent they consider themselves fans and/or buy the games/consoles) and doesn't work for others.

Still, none of these criticisms are any more damning or controversial than any criticism you could make about any other game developer/publisher or console manufacturer. Nintendo's been making video games for something like 4 decades now and is a publisher, developer and console manufacturer so it's no wonder they keep coming up in conversation.

Personally I'm a fan. They have their niche and that niche appeals to me.

 

[BrokenTinker]

The problem is that nintendo is a traded company, japanese white collar culture is really weird since it's based on a really bastardize version of american capitalism post-wwii. It's rapidly losing touch with their fans, especially with iwata's recent passing. So you've fractions within the company itself (it's even hinted at during some interviews when he was alive) with a mix of the old and the older.

It isn't a pretty sight.